Tied to Sky Broadband?

Hi,

I've just come to the end of a 12 month deal with Sky for Fibre Unlimited Pro and so starting looking around for alternative options to get a better deal. Usually, calling Sky to tell them this is enough to get them to come up with a new offer so that you'll stay, but they said they couldn't offer me anything.

I looked at some options online and Plus.net looked like the best deal. I was with them before Sky (at a previous address) and never had any problems with them, so I went ahead and started the process of ordering a package from them. I hit a problem on the sign up in that it said I didn't have fibre available at my address, so I gave Plus.net a call. I'm no expert on any of this stuff but the Plus.net guy rambled on a lot about local loop unbundling and effectlively said Sky is my only option.

I don't really understand this, so I'm wondering if one of you can enlighten me! I just find it odd that I have an existing fibre service, apparently provided over a BT line (in fact, I had to have the cable between my house and the telegraph pole moved due to building work recently and Sky had me call Openreach directly to carry out the work because they said they owned the infrastructure) But it seems that my only option for a fibre broadband service is Sky. I thought the whole point of LLU was to open up the market for other providers, so I find it odd that I apparently have no choice! It might also explain why Sky didn't seem to want to offer me another deal, perhaps knowing that I don't have any options.

Cheers,
Mark.

What does the dslchecker say for your address? http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.addres...

It does seem to be a complete mess once you have full LLU with Sky or TalkTalk. I can't understand it; even less can I understand why OFCOM have allowed this situation to arise, or it allowing in the first place was an oversight why they have allowed it to continue for quite a long time. I'm not sure whether the process is fundamentally broken, or whether Sky are being allowed to get away with intentional subversion of the process.

There is a similar active thread with comments from people who know (MrSaffron and RobertoS); but I can't understand this either. http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/f/4369829-t...


I have read in that past that it can even be easiest to get a new line installed (as long as you don't mind losing your telephone number).

Whatever, good luck.

I suspect the check BatBoy has suggested won't come up with much helpful, as you already know what you can theoretically get. The equivalent check using phone number son't come up with anything as the line is in some sense 'not a BT line'

Edited by StephenTodd (Sat 08-Nov-14 12:10:35)

DSL checker says this:


High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 77.2 20 20 -- 19-Nov-14
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 69.8 20 17.7 -- 19-Nov-14

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 8 -- 5.5 to 12.5 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 8 Up to 1 5.5 to 12.5 Available
ADSL Max Up to 5.5 -- 4.5 to 8 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Fibre Multicast -- -- -- 19-Nov-14
Copper Multicast -- -- -- Available

Should I read anything into that 19th November availability date for FTTC?

Cheers,
Mark.

If you look at the text under the speeds box, it should give a reason why FTTC is not available at the moment.

Sorry, yes the text underneath says FTTC is currently unavailable because "Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.".

So, what does that actually mean?

The cause for my confusion here is that I have fibre broadband right now, so I just don't understand why ISP's and online checker tools are telling me that I don't and why I apparently don't have any other ISP choice than Sky.

I moved to my current address and took the fibre service when I moved in (where I lived previously was semi-rural and only had ADSL) I'd switched to Sky as they'd offered me a free broadband deal as an existing Sky TV customer. Previously I'd been with Plus.net and was happy with them, but you can't beat free

Cheers,
Mark.

It means the cabinet is full or waiting for an extra line card. Wait until more capacity available and moving phone and broadband to others becomes simpler

Ok cool. There is a mention of FTTC being available on 19th Nov on the DSL checker, so maybe I'll give it a couple of weeks and then see if anything changes.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
Mark.

That can change daily, so I advise you to check it every day.

There used to be a problem moving Sky to Plusnet but I think that is now sorted. The phone person you spoke to at Plusnet may be one of the many new recruits, and got confused by your number not showing up on his checker. As you say earlier, with being full LLU phone it is no longer a "BT line".

Even now, I'm not sure on moves from full LLU Plusnet don't migrate you to ADSL2+ even though you are already on FTTC, then upgrade you to FTTC a couple of weeks later. I think it might have been a difficulty in the Openreach ordering system.

When you come to order it would be a good idea to get one of the Plusnet forum reps involved.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There used to be a problem moving Sky to Plusnet but I think that is now sorted. The phone person you spoke to at Plusnet may be one of the many new recruits, and got confused by your number not showing up on his checker. As you say earlier, with being full LLU phone it is no longer a "BT line".

Even now, I'm not sure on moves from full LLU Plusnet don't migrate you to ADSL2+ even though you are already on FTTC, then upgrade you to FTTC a couple of weeks later. I think it might have been a difficulty in the Openreach ordering system.

When you come to order it would be a good idea to get one of the Plusnet forum reps involved.

Hm Wonder what reply would have been had this been BT. Sorry RobertoS could not resist.

I have frequently said in these forums that the safest migration route from Sky MPF is to BT Retail.

Many migrators do not wish to go there. Feel free to recommend it to the OP .

I always go via the second line route. Costs a bit more but was a lesson learned from a move years ago which left me without broadband for nearly two months.

The problem that i have with this sort of situation is that the op shouldn't need there to be more capacity at the cab, as that existing connection shouldn't change for a migration, But no doubt this is blocked by MPF providers placing a cease order on the BB once the voice is migrated to another provider, it's a system that is working in a non sensical way due to Ofcom being not much bark and absolutly no bite ( a useless quango) that does very little to justify it's existance imo

It's nothing to do with MPF. It happens on WBC/WBMC + WLR3 as well. I guess the Openreach order system (wrongly) won't take an FTTC order if there are no spare slots. The fact that FTTC >> FTTC hasn't been programmed in is a simple design fault. About three lines of code required.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 08-Nov-14 17:32:28)

As the system is programmed wrong there should be a human override so the intended receiving ISP (Plusnet in this case) can get Openreach to arrange the necessary order details manually.

Even if they make the fix RobertoS points out is necessary, the system will still have errors; after many decades in computing I've never heard of a system that didn't.

I'm in a similar position to the OP, switching from Sky LLU fibre BB to Plusnet (thanks to Sky's price increase allowing me out of my contract early!).
However, my experience with the order was very easy - I ordered through the Plusnet website, and they have been doing everything. I got all the 'sorry please reconsider' texts from Sky and the 'welcome to plus net, the router's in the post' texts and the changeover is due tomorrow. If there are problems I will doubtless be on here crying about them (when BB is restored!)

What I am slightly apprehensive about is the change from the Sky self-installed all-in-one modem-router to the Plusnet VDSL(?) modem plus separate router, since I created my own 'main' socket next to my computer by connecting cat5e cable to the actual master socket. I may be in for a telling off by the installer�.

CAT 5 will be fine and any decent engineer would be happy with it. Assuming it is proper stuff not cheapo "not quite" CAT 5.

Are you sure there will be an installer sent, as normally on FTTC migrations one isn't required. The standard Plusnet texts talk about the engineer appointment, but basically the only engineer work should be at the exchange in your case. Possibly at the cabinet as well, I'm unclear on the actual link changes required when moving from non-BT Wholesale FTTC to BT Wholesale FTTC.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

. . . Possibly at the cabinet as well, . . .

No work will be necessary at the cabinet.

Hi, yes there has to be a visit as my current fibre router is one of Sky's all-in-one boxes, whereas PN uses the Openreach VDSL (?) + separate router option.
The router came in the post, and I hope someone comes to install the other box.
If not, I wonder if I can reconfigure the sky box?

So, Openreach appear to have screwed it up.
I waited in all afternoon, then rang Plusnet to find out what happened. Turns out the engineer did the switchover at the cabinet then decided he didn't need to walk 100m to my house, probably presuming that I already had a VDSL box since I already had fibre.
Plusnet guy was hugely apologetic and promised to do whatever he could to get me the required box.
So now I'm stuck without broadband even though the service is allegedly active.

This industry structure, where Openreach has no service responsibility to the end user is a bit mad. Plusnet guy told me OR would have to pay Plusnet a big penalty for this screw up. I said "that's nice for you. What do I get?"

In reply to a post by rockdoctor:

This industry structure, where Openreach has no service responsibility to the end user is a bit mad.

Blame OFCOM ...

Never tried this and I maybe talking complete rubbish but I wonder if you use the sky modem router to sync to the cabinet, then it should fail with any authentication it uses.. But maybe at that point you could create a PPPoE connection actually using the plusnet details?

http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-he...

Edited by kandrews8098 (Mon 10-Nov-14 20:37:17)

In reply to a post by kandrews8098:

Never tried this and I maybe talking complete rubbish but I wonder if you use the sky modem router to sync to the cabinet, then it should fail with any authentication it uses.. But maybe at that point you could create a PPPoE connection actually using the plusnet details?

http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-he...

That will only work if the Sky router can be configured in modem-only mode.

The OP could buy a HG612 modem from Ebay or a Billion 8800NL from Currys.

I rang Sky technical support to see if they would unlock their router so I could use it to connect to PlusNet until the new router delivered.
I got through to a competent tech lady who understood immediately what I wanted, went away and came back with the answer 'no'. I asked if there was anyone else who could authorise it - she said 'nope', not because they were unwilling, but because they no longer hold the line, so can't access the router to unlock it.
So Sky were helpful, but couldn't solve the problem.

Then tried Plusnet again. Nice bloke sounded distraught but couldn't come up with a solution, due to my inability to be at home during another weekday. Apparently the OR engineer won't post out or drop off the router - they must install themselves.
In the end we booked an afternoon slot with a note that no-one will be in for the first 2.5 hours of the slot.

Fingers crossed...

Yay! Engineer came while my wife was in. She reports the Openreach modem is installed and tested. Hopefully just need to plug in the PlusNet router and I'm back in the game.

Remember it can take 15 minutes to sort itself out. Even if all the right lights go on.

Well I got home at 5:30 and by 6pm I had eaten dinner, connected up modem and internet started working. 15 mins was generous - more like 1 min before all the lights came on.
Happy bunny

As a bonus, while my downstream rate is the same as it was with Sky, the upstream has risen to 16 Mbps (see latest Speedtest)

I think the 15 minutes is probably for the TR-069 system to cause your account to initialise. The PN people will have already activated it because they knew the migration was complete .

The 40/20 is a nice touch! No other ISP I know of does it.