Infinity install - engineer visit?

Fibre is finally here, 9 months late but due to the BT black Friday offer, i couldn't refuse. I only went with the 38Mb service but i'm wondering, does the install need an engineer visit?

It seems to suggest they will just send me the home hub 5 and i just plug it in.

I am switching from sky's adsl LLU service which gave me around 17-18Mbit.

I've read other posts about engineers visiting to set up the service and install a VDSL plate?

I noticed a new green cab going in during the summer, right next to the old cab. I looked on google maps and the cabinet is 600-650metres walking from my house. Does this give any indication of speed and will i sync at the highest possible speed on day 1 so i can see what is going to be possible for the future?

thanks

Infinity installs via bt retail are usually done without engineer visit.

My Infinity install (11 months ago) did have an engineer visit. I'd done a lot of preparatory work, so he really didn't have much more to do some line tests and install a vDSL interstitial faceplate to replace my ADSL faceplate. Almost certainly her didn't have to do even that as an ADSL plate (which is only a passive low pass filter) would probably have been fine.

I would certainly pay some attention to your internal wiring to optimise it for VDSL. In particular, I'd recommend central filtering of any voice-only extension lines. Hopefully they send a vDSL interstitial faceplate with self-installs, although I think the previous ADSL types will do the job too. If you do need an (unfiltered) extension for locating the router away from the master socket, then use twisted pair wire. I use a pair from a cat6 cable for that purpose (and I use three wires in the same cable for a filtered phone socket too). The latest interstitial plates have unfiltered connections for that very purpose.

nb. you are about 50-100m further from the cabinet than I am, and I sync at about 58mbps down, and 11mbps up. Strangely, it's about 1mbps faster now (in both directions) than a few months ago. Theory would say that it would go down in time as cross-talk increases with more users, but maybe there have been minor firmware of power masking tweaks at the cabinet end (my HH5 software hasn't changed since April).

It's very wise to go for the slower speed service in your case, as you might not have gained much with the faster. However, once it's installed, you will get a much better idea of what your line might achieve from the HH5 stats, especially the noise margin and attainable rate figures. Then you can judge if it's worth the upgrade. Also, if/when vectoring is rolled out, then you might well see the attainable download rate increase by perhaps 15mbps or so (very uncertain of the real world benefit at the moment).

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:

Hopefully they send a vDSL interstitial faceplate with self-installs ....

They don't.

That's a shame. Although I think they are readily available. I hope they provide advice on how to clean up any internal phone extension systems as just sticking microfilters on all the voice extensions hardly gets the best of things. Well, it's not great for ADSL either, but I think the impact is magnified with VDSL which (in my experience) is a bit more vulnerable to interference than ADSL2.

They don't

I assume they provide some advice. In fact it should have been done years ago for ADSL as it can make an enormous difference. I suppose if they mention the i-Plate it might go some way.

Have you noticed the Clean and Impacted lines on the BT Wholesale estimator? Self-install is almost guaranteed to be Impacted. Any complaints about speed, so long as it is above the minimum impacted gets a "Tough!"

Right, this is the ideal time to chip in (although it's slightly off-topic) - my mate has Infinity, and he had (whilst he personally was out) an engineer install, about a year ago. I think he had his girlfriend tell the engineer not to do anything, just ask if "his line was wired up" (i.e. the PCP and DSLAM), and he'd do the rest.

They'd previously got ADSL2+, and so would have had the stock microfilters fitted to all extensions... but I don't know exactly what the end arrangement was. What I do know is that he's always banging on about his broadband dropping out, and up until now, I've tried to ignore him. I also know that he moved his master socket... or at least, he re-wired his internals to a configuration which he understood meant moving it. Several of our mutual mates do work for BT so he may have had help; but none of them are installers, they work for whatever BT Exact is called now (Christ knows).

So; one fact we do know is that he has FTTC, specifically Infinity. If he has no IS but ADSL filters at every possible point, will that "work", but in a slightly sporadic way? And of course, here's the main question: If that is indeed the case, can an i-plate be installed at what is definitely identified as being the master socket, and then all ADSL microfilters can be thrown in the bin? The electronics recycling section of the local dump, of course.

I'm still on ADSL2+ here, and so am still all microfiltered up, and hadn't thought about his situation properly.

Edited by deleted (Sat 06-Dec-14 01:57:21)

" I also know that he moved his master socket... or at least, he re-wired his internals to a configuration which he understood meant moving it."

That sounds rather concerning, if only because it's more than slightly ambiguous. You can't move a master socket just redoing your internal wiring. Moving the master socket would mean altering the BT wiring where it comes into the property by either rerouting it, or possibly extending it using a junction box. I hope that hasn't been done, especially as if there is a line fault and an engineer visits, there may be a big bill.

However, if what this actually means is that some extension wiring has been connected to the master socket faceplate and what your friend regards as the master socket (and where the router is connected) is actually an extension, then that's OK of course. If it's done that way, and uses cheap non-twisted pair extension cable (and most is like that) then it will be sub-optimal. It will be particularly vulnerable to noise if what's called the "ringwire" is connected on the extensions (that's connection 3 on the faceplate). It's essentially redundant on modern phones, and definitely unnecessary where microfilters are used. A quick fix for DSL issues is often just to disconnect the ringwire on the extensions at the master socket end.

However, this is still not great. It is much better to filter all the extension wiring at the master socket with a maximum of one unfiltered extension where you might want to locate a router/modem. That unfiltered extension should ideally use high quality twisted pair cabling (like cat6 cabling). Then all the microfilters can be thrown away save possibly one at the extension socket where the router/modem is to be located. (A neater way to do this is to install an extension faceplate with both RJ11 DSL and a standard phone sockets and feed both filtered and unfiltered outputs down a single cat6 cable using different pairs).

There are several ways of doing this, but if he has the right sort of master socket, then a VDSL IS is a good way to go. It has two connections for an unfiltered pair and the standard extension wires are all fully filtered (which means, of course, that VDSL will not work on any of those).

A useful check to see if it makes any difference is to attach the router direct to the incoming line with all the extensions disconnected. That's easily achieved with modern masters by removing the faceplate and plugging the router/modem into the test socket underneath. Then compare stats (especially noise margin, sync speed and attainable rates) with the standard setup. If they are substantially better (that is higher), then redoing the internal wiring is certainly worth considering.

Note that there's an earlier ADSL iplate, but it only filters the ring wire and doesn't fully filter extensions. There's video guidance on this site for that earlier iplate, but it's not applicable to this, which is the VDSL iplate. (But it will also work on ADSL of course).

http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btvdslfaceplate.html

ADSL Filters should work so long as extension wiring is decent and filters are decent, but even then it can drop speeds on VDSL2 or introduce drop outs.

First step is always to test at the test socket and if stable, then fitting a VDSL face e.g. £10.99 on Amazon so not expensive and if the VDSL modem cannot be placed at the master to install dedicated extension on the IDC terminals see http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ for pictures of which ones to use.

Some people on ADSL2+ do benefit from the faceplates too.

The I-plate just resolves the ring wire issue and not the problems caused by RF reflections and imbalances on the extension wiring. So no point buying one, go for the full plates.

Well, it obviously "works", but he could make it better.

The modem should ideally be connected at the master socket - this is the socket where the wiring comes in from the outside. The basic reason for this is that the modem should be the first connection on the line so other devices don't add interference to the line.

However there is nothing stopping you putting the master socket where you like, as long as the wiring from the outside to the master socket is solid copper twisted pair - CAT5/CAT6 is ideal for this but note only 1 pair is used.

At the master socket, the modem plugs in and all other extension wiring originates from the connection after the filter - usually terminal 2 and 5 on the back of the filtered face plate.

Usual problems are: ring wires picking up noise, so remove; junction boxes, connections before the master socket, so remove these also.

I struggled with wifi if i put the hub on the master. My ADSL is currently connected on the landing.

I removed the unused extension from the master socket and removed all wires apart from 2&5 i think it was. I left connected a wire which goes straight up into the bedroom above. At that point i terminated the line so all other sockets in the house are disconnected. This also only had wires 2&5 connected.

Result is my ADSL SNR is very solid it fluctuates between 2.9 and 3.1dB and rarely drops below this at any point in the day.

I don't have any special faceplates and i don't use a landline phone, we don't even have one plugged in.

Would i still benefit from a VDSL plate and if i fitted one would i have to locate the home hub when it comes at the master socket?

If the only extension is the one for the router then no, it will make no difference. However, if you had any other extensions connected then the VDSL plate is worth considering (and it would allow you to connect any currently unused extensions too if you wanted to do so).

Unlikely, as the main purpose of the VDSL plate is to filter the phones (and the ring wire). As you don't have these, it won't make any difference.

On the newer SSFP, there is also a REIN filter which may/may not work.

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

If he has no IS but ADSL filters at every possible point, will that "work", but in a slightly sporadic way?

Am I having a mental block, pre-coffee? To me "IS" means Internet Security and is nothing at all to do with connection methods.

IS would be Interstitial plate I guess

Ah! Probably .

I did find the whole post rather confusing, to be honest. It seems he has a friend who has made some bodge-up of his wiring but he doesn't know exactly what, and there are problems. Possibly when on ADSLx, and certainly since the engineer install on Infinity. We don't even know what the engineer did, if anything. (If nothing, almost certainly not an Openreach person).

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 06-Dec-14 12:34:03)