New Cabinet apeared next to our phone cabinet...

Hey all

Can anyone that has access to install or required information tell me what this cabinet is, this new cabinet has just appeared next to our phone cabinet (LNILC P24) Ilford Central Phone Cabinet 24.
Its larger than the current phone cabinet by several inches in height and might also be wider as well along with it a darker green in colour.
I am also not too sure when it was installed due to I haven't been in that area for a while now so it may of been installed for a few weeks now.

I am not sure if its a new phone cabinet to replace our very old one, or maybe BTO has decided on giving us FTTC after 3 years wait for the FTTP install that we was suppose to of got in the last quarter of 2011, or maybe its Virgin Media due to they currently about to start installs in our are and was told on the phone that we may have to wait up to about 4 months or so months before they do our road if all goes well.

Not got any pictures of this new cabinet yet due to was being dropped off and was darkish out side car but was noticeable to see that it was bigger and darker green, but I will try to get some pictures maybe over the next few days.

I did do a DSL check and there is no information about Fibre or any dates referring to when it will become active, and from the road side I couldn't see any vents on it, however the vents may only be on the other side.
The cabinet may just be an empty shell installed ready for either FTTC or just an update to the phone lines handled by our old cabinet.

I cannot see Virgin Media installing their Fibre cabinet right next to BT's Phone cabinet, however our council may of told them to install it there due to us being in a Conservation Area.

I may be wrong but I think I read some place that VM Fibre boxes only support up to 250m away, if so and that is to be the only cabinet then there may be an issue. Saying that, doesn't RF (i.e. broadband signals) over coax in fact travel longer distances that what twisted balanced lines should, if so then hopefully it would be ok.

So my guesses at this point was one of the following:
1: A New cabinet to house our phone lines, which is to replace our old one.
2: BTO are installing us FTTC, i.e. the reason it being very close to our phone cabinet.
3: Its a VM Fibre Cabinet getting it ready to install their infrastructure.

We haven't been that lucky over the last 3 or so years so hopefully it either option 2 or 3, but knowing our luck it will just be option 1.
I just think its strange that Virgin Media comes into our area to install their network and all of a sudden a new cabinet appears next to our phone cabinet.

If this was in fact BTO installing FTTC what speeds on average (rough guess) would we see, we are about 470m from our cabinet.
Currently we are in total about 3.5km give or take from our exchange, following the roads and we get about 5.2Mb when its dry outside and about 0Mb (non stop d/c's) up to about 1 to 1.5Mb when it has rained heavy, resulting in having to phone BT to have the SNR reset back to 6dB.
So you can see why we are hoping its fibre of some sort.

I know a few of us down our road got our local MP involved a few months back, so maybe this got the ball rolling, I know we got a huge amount of attention from BT after our MP got involved.

Thanks in advance
Paul

Assorted cabinet pictures. (Those labelled 128 I think are 96s).

Thanks for you reply Rob.

Well our current phone cabinet is like I said very old and we have been here 30+ years and don't recall any cabinet upgrade in that time, but it looks like the "Tatty old GPO! PCP" or possibly "Another old PCP" however the new cabinet to me (remember only saw the back of it due to being in a car and also being dark outside) looks like Virgins "Street cabinet" and was a fair bit darker green to be the "Modernish PCP near a pub" cabinet, or maybe one of the "Huawei".

I do recall it having the same type of top (i.e. roof top shaped) and that it was dark green and several inches taller and also maybe wider as well, but not too sure.

Hopefully if I am well enough I will take a long slow walk (well stagger LOL) towards it tomorrow to take photos of the front, back and the side visible.

I am just hoping its not just a new PCP cabinet to replace the old one, just thought it was strange it being placed next to the old one, maybe for them to move lines in blocks at a time to reduce loss of lines.

Edited by PaulKirby (Tue 23-Dec-14 00:59:20)

Basically this is what our old one looks like:

Google Maps for 2009 and Google Maps for 2012

As you can see its very old
So like I said maybe the new cabinet is just a new PCP Cabinet ready for an upgrade.

One worrying thing is I have read that you cannot have half using FTTP and the rest using FTTC and its one or the other and never mixed down the same road (unless that's for the homes using the same PCP cabinet), because people the top half of our road and several side roads that are routed through a different PCP cabinet i.e. LNILC P39 have FTTP already and have had since end of 2011, even openreach where and when site says the following for them:

Exchange name: Ilford Central

Status: Accepting orders

Great news. Superfast Fibre is in your area and your cabinet is enabled and accepting orders. Contact your preferred communications provider for your home or business to order.

However for the lower end of our road and the remaining side roads using our PCP Cabinet LNILC P24 haven't got any fibre at all as yet and the openreach where and where page says the following:

Exchange name: Ilford Central

Status: Under Review

We're in your area but we're still assessing whether or not we can upgrade your cabinet. This means you can't order Superfast Fibre. Click here to find out more >

And one of our neighbours a few months or so ago was either told by BT or Openreach that we are not viable for FTTP, yet the upper of our road and several side roads are.
Saying that though, their PCP Cabinet is a lot newer than ours, so maybe that was the reason, shame they couldn't tell us that in 2011 when the engineers was installing all the fibre manifold this end.

Not too sure what they mean by "Under Review", seems that openreach have updated their Where and When page.

Edited by PaulKirby (Tue 23-Dec-14 02:15:00)

If new cab has slots as air vents it is FTTC if no slots may still be prelude to FTTC

With my County Councillor's hat on.

Have a search of your council's website and see if they have a Planning section. You should then be able to see who made the planning application. You mentioned it being a Conservation Area, so it should be listed, maybe some time ago.

If you cannot locate a planning section on the website, the phone the council and ask for the web address. With my CC hat off, I would not mention the new cabinet to the council, just in case it should not have been erected there - it is easy to throw a spanner in the works, so to speak,

Cheers!

According to roadworks.org Vrigin media are the only ones doing work their but its for a blockage repair

I susspect its just a replacement for the existing PCP, probably due to fault liability, and the lines will be changes over to the new PCP in due course , if they have not been already

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Dec-14 11:10:53)

Hello Ribble

Yup, like I expected last night, its a new PCP cabinet, strange that they put a new one next to the old one though, I normally see them just lift off the old one and re-fit with the new larger one to accommodate space ready for FTTC loop through.

Here is a photo of them next to each other, can you get the old an new one LOL

veryold pcp cabinet with new pcp cabinet 20141223

But yeah, my guesses are for it to replace the current PCP cabinet due to I know I have been having very bad issues with my ADSL2+ connection when it rains.

But at least this brings our cabinet up to date with our other PCP one across the road.

Thanks
Paul

Hello Ancient_Mariner

Thanks for your reply, well our councils site is like a maze, so you would probably need a degree in cryptology to find anything.

But like I said to ribble its a new PCP Cabinet, I am just puzzled why they didn't just change the outer casing, but like ribble said it may be due to fault issues in the current PCP cabinet, so a complete replacement would be required and there is a lot of wires in there, so it will probably be done in stages after the new year.

Thanks
Paul

I susspect the new cab has been provided in order replace the Complete PCP, not just the shell, probably due to faults on the connection assemblies

Hello Andrew

Sadly it doesn't and by the image I posted, its just a new PCP cabinet.
I am hoping that's its to get our cabinet up to modern times like our other cabinet across the road, our cabinet as far as I recall hasn't been updated for at least 30+ years since I have lived here, and as you can see in the image that the old one does look very old and tatty.

But lets hope this at least gets the ball rolling for fibre, if we are not viable for FTTP like the rest of our road, at least we might be for FTTC or maybe VM due to they are installing in my area which is due to start the start of next year.

Thanks
Paul

Yeah, that's what I am thinking, we have very very bad broadband when it rains and I mean it gets as bad as no connection at all, yet the phone line works fine, so no engineer visit says BT.

TBH, I don't think that would resolve much due to I think and so did the several BT tech people that I have spoken to over the last few months that its a cable fault and the cable really needs to be replaced due to its very very old, where I was told that might be the case, but openreach won't do that unless they really need to like if it affects the phone line which it doesn't, so it probably wont happen.

But like I said to Andrew I hope it points us towards getting at least FTTC, even though half our road is viable for FTTP (using cabinet opposite across the road)

Thanks
Paul

Hello tthom

Nope, check again with 12 Months selected, they are installing a few cabinets, bases and chambers.
This work is due to start some time in mid January.
Look at Second, third, forth and sixth avenue, first and fifth avenue at the ones being unblocked.
Granted they are several roads away from our road, but Virgin said on the phone that they are installing in my area and will if all goes well (if council says its ok) in about 4 or so months they will be starting my road.

Thanks
Paul

A new passive cabinet appeared right next to the BT chamber below the pavement a few weeks before a new fibre cabinet appeared 5 metres down the road, previously there was a very old cabinet there on its own which is still in place.

The two new cabinets were wired together shortly after the fibre cabinet appeared, but I'm still waiting for the exchange (SMWLS) to go to accepting orders (RFS listed as 31/12/14). A blocked duct in another village was cleared last week, it seems that was the pacing item for the fibre side of things to be installed. I am hopeful that it will be ready early in January.

Maybe a surprise awaits you...

Hello rippedcotton

Well Fibre has been an on going issue with BT, that a few on here already know to do with us supposing to have FTTP installed back in 2011 where half our road and several side roads from us got it then the openreach engineers were all called back and we become not viable for FTTP even though homes down our road 100+ meters further away from the exchange than us.

I am still hoping in openreach installing new copper from our exchange to the new PCP cabinet due to current faulty copper lines due to rain and harsh environment etc, this along with freeing up space in the underground conduits leading to FTTP being installed, if not then maybe FTTC, maybe we will wait and see what happens with the VM installs we still have until about September for our BT contract to run out, and if Fibre with BT isn't as good speed as we would like we will go to VM.

As for (if we get put on FTTC) I am hoping it gets put close to our PCP cabinet due to we are already 470 meters away from our PCP cabinet at this point I am not too sure what speeds we will see, but I have a bad feeling it not going to be good, so a wait for VM may be the best bet.

Thanks
Paul

I don't see any plans for FTTC on that cab. Maybe the prospect of impending cable will put a rocket where its required to get things moving again.

Hello Ribble

Well the guy across the road from me that also got our MP involved was told either by BT or Openreach themselves that we wasn't viable for FTTP even though the upper half of our road and side roads was, but may be for FTTC and said we have been put on the end of the list of rollouts, which I really think is wrong and gave a very big moan to the "Executive Level Complaints - BT Retail" about this.

Like I said I am still hoping for BT finish off what they started back in 2011 when they started the FTTP install, probably will never happen, so like I said maybe FTTC or VM will have to do, anything is better than what we are getting at the moment, granted there are loads of homes a hell of a lot worse than us.

But if what your saying is correct and there is no plans for FTTC for us, then BT has just lost around 400 up to 12,000 homes (12,000 homes if no more cabinets connected to Ilford Central get fibre), I check on a weekly bases of all NAD numbers routing through Ilford Central and nothing has changed as yet.

My stats (may be a little off, not checked for a few weeks)
97 homes with no Broadband at all (may be location for link ups).
5,852 Homes with FTTP
5,197 Homes with FTTC
12,675 Homes with ADSLx

So just means more money for Mr Branson.

Edited by PaulKirby (Tue 23-Dec-14 19:34:24)

I reckon your still down for FTTP but someone has made the decision to put the build on hold, possibly due to internal politics, or there are bigger issues (not technical, like skilled resource and BDUK)

In reply to a post by Ribble:

I reckon your still down for FTTP but someone has made the decision to put the build on hold, possibly due to internal politics, or there are bigger issues (not technical, like skilled resource and BDUK)

Yeah I am hoping for this due to all the work our end has been done and ready since Dec 2011 when it was suppose to of been completed.

I was hoping it was just a blockage or where our lines was that old because they really are, was also told this by several Openreach engineers when I have seen them working that has been doing that job for many years, yes I know you cannot believe what you are told by an engineer, well most stuff, but by the look of our old cabinet I think in this case I would believe them.

I am aware that the cost is not down to the fibre itself, but to the cost of the engineers installing the fibre from the exchange to our manifold under ground and then into our homes, and that's where the issue is, not everyone is at home at the same time that is connected to the same pole.

Its a shame openreach cannot blow the fibre from the exchange up to the manifold underground by our pole and terminate it there until homes sign up for the fibre, that way the bulk of the work is already done, and all BT are paying for are the hour or two going from the manifold to the home.

Also an idea would be to blow the fibre from the exchange like above but to a modified fibre manifold that converts over from Fibre to copper and then bridge that over to the copper line, only issue is getting power to it.(could use the supply from the copper line? how many mA are we talking here), this might be what FTTdp is not sure.

btw updated my last reply with the stats of FTTP, FTTC, ADSLx and No BB routing through Ilford Central.

As for issues, I am sure our council would be very happy for us to get FTTP (i.e. no digging up roads and installing a fibre cabinet instead of FTTC which would require some digging and a new Fibre Cabinet, due to us being in a Conservation Area.

But yeah, something must of happened for them to just stop in the middle of the install like that, we may even have the yellow stripe tubing installed and could just be waiting for the fibre to be just blown down.

Thanks
Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Tue 23-Dec-14 19:54:29)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Assorted cabinet pictures. (Those labelled 128 I think are 96s).

Not that it's important to this thread, but for reference, it's the Huawei cabinet labelled as being a 128 there, that is actually a 96. The Huawei ones delivered to near where I live recently had "48x2" written on the wooden boxes they came delivered in, in the section about the cab's details. I also saw a rather more telling piece written elsewhere, which said (something like) "Huawei 96 line cabinet..." So it seems Huawei work in multiples of 48 with their line cards, and ECI work in 64s? Again, like others undoubtedly have (or simply know), I've seen "128-line" written on the silver sticker/plate on the base of the ECI cabinets, which gets covered up by the cement and plinth when it's installed.

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Dec-14 20:19:16)

I hadn't really thought about it, but there are 3 types of DSLAM that have been used in the rollout, all documented on this old thread about unmetered supplies.

That suggests that the Huawei DSLAMs come in two variants: 4x32, and 6x48, while the ECI comes in 4x64.

Of course, there is nothing to stop BT from using one of the three DSLAM in a cut-down variant, with a smaller linecard backplane/cage, and a smaller shell.

Perhaps some of the smaller-shell Huawei's are a 4x32 variant, making 128, while others are a cutdown 6x48 with only room for 2x48 - making 96. I wondered why someone would write "48x2" on the crate, but perhaps they have to do this to distinguish between the variants of DSLAM contained within.

There was nothing I read (about the unmetered supply situation) that drew attention to some DSLAMs being cut-down; the only references were related to how many cards were in use.

Thanks . That's interesting abut the ECI base-plate as well.

What's happened to the railings? It's unusual to remove those next to what looks like a busy road.

We wondered that as well, seems like Newham Council want drivers to hit those cabinets.
TBH I never even saw them being removed, one moment they are there and the next they were gone.

The old one is Cabinet Cross Connection 3, with 4 ducts. The new one is a Cabinet Cross Connection 7/7 with 7 ducts.

It's prolly time for a once in a lifetime renewal of the cabinet innards and it's a lot quicker to reload a busy cabinet if you put up a separate shell.

My mistake I apologise

In reply to a post by tthom:

My mistake I apologise

Na its ok, I did the same at first

I was checking that site on a daily basis and when I saw them pop up I was like WAY

What's happened to the railings?

These are being removed by TFL (transport for London) from many London streets partly for aesthetic reasons and partly to try and reduce injuries to cyclists who are often injured by being trapped against the railings by motor vehicles passing too close. Removing the railings is supposed to give them an escape route.

The TfL Guardrail Removal Programme is part of it's 2011 "Better Streets" initiative to remove unnecessary street culture such as signs, boxes and guard rails.

The latest theory on crossing safety is that pedestrian guard rails (PRGs) encourage people to be over-reliant on them and not concentrate on using their eyes and ears to cross safely. Also that people walk around them or leap over them making their crossing less safe.

Each removal is assessed against a series of criteria. In particular PRGs outside schools are almost always kept. There is some detail about the assessment in this TfL paper [PDF].

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Thanks . That's interesting abut the ECI base-plate as well.

I might have been slightly ambitious about calling it a "plate". It seemed to be something which ECI put on before it leaves the factory though - and they acknowledged it was for BT. Again, I can't remember the exact wording. At the same "level" of the cabinet, forther across, are the stickers which say something like:

Installed date.......
Commissioned date......

...and had a signature field. The last one I saw had a commission date of about 6 months previously, with a signature, and then nothing else. I may be mixing up the "commisioned date" field with "power connected date", I can't remember now. All the commercial rollout cabinets here are ECI 128s, but the BDUK or Better Broadband for Suffolk plan which has just added two PCPs and DSLAMs in the car park opposite the exchange, used the small Huawei ones.

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Dec-14 14:21:56)

In reply to a post by Ribble:

I susspect the new cab has been provided in order replace the Complete PCP, not just the shell, probably due to faults on the connection assemblies

When you say replace the entire PCP to new inners and ousters, would this also include complete new cable from the exchange to the PCP Cabinet?
Or is it just the rack and the shell?

The reason that I ask is that the new cabinet is a good several feet further from the exchange so wouldn't the existing cables be too short to reach into the new PCP Cabinet.

Also I don't think the issue that we have is in the cabinet but more in the cable from the cabinet to the exchange.
Sometimes when it rains heavily we loose our speed right down to less than 1Mb to a no connection and to then end up with a very high SNR value.
I am getting fed up having to phone BT to have our SNR reset every time our connection goes up and down for several days until the cable dries off where its fine until it rains bad again.

TBH I am still shocked that BB even works over the phone line with the state and mess of the copper cables in the shielded shell by our poll, I still don't know why they cannot just have a smaller cut down version of what is in the PCP cabinet (i.e. a smaller racking system, would make it a lot neater and easier to find the correct pairs etc when working on the line.

Thanks
Paul.

In reply to a post by Ribble:

I don't see any plans for FTTC on that cab. Maybe the prospect of impending cable will put a rocket where its required to get things moving again.

Well where that new PCP cabinet has not long been installed I am assuming it has nothing connected to it yet and probably wont until the new year.
Also depending if they are also installing new cables as well will also delay things as well.

Anyhow if BT do finally come back (after the PCP cabinet is all complete) to finish off the FTTP install (one can only hope here) I will go with BT for the 330Mb package.
However if it all ends up in BTO downgrading the install to FTTC I may hold off and wait and see what happens with Virgin Media.
The reason being we are about 470m to 500m (following paths and roads) from our cabinet so we probably wouldn't get much of that 80Mb (not really sure of the exact speed that we would get) where as with VM we would probably see most if not all of its 152Mb due to it being coax and not twisted pairs and also probably closer and more cabinets being installed.

So at the moment its just a waiting game, but yeah I hope where Virgin Media is in the area that BT get off their backsides and continue their installs (not just ours), if not they will loose out on over 12,000 homes that currently only have ADSLx and I am almost sure they would take up the chance when VM installs fibre in their area.

would this also include complete new cable from the exchange to the PCP Cabinet?

no. If there is no slack then new cable section will have to be jointed on.

In reply to a post by Ribble:

would this also include complete new cable from the exchange to the PCP Cabinet?

no. If there is no slack then new cable section will have to be jointed on.

Well I would hate to do that job.

Thanks
Paul.

In reply to a post by Ribble:

would this also include complete new cable from the exchange to the PCP Cabinet?

no. If there is no slack then new cable section will have to be jointed on.

My (probably lacking) understanding is that most E-side cables from the exchange are pressurised with air from the exchange building, to help keep water out, and make any break obvious.

Further, my understanding was that the pressurised section terminated in the underground chamber below/beside the PCP, and that the rising cable up to the internals of the PCP was actually a separate short cable, jointed to the "proper" E-side within the chamber. Sometimes there is a pressure gauge up in the PCP, but some of these seem to have been converted into a remote-telemetry device.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

My stats (may be a little off, not checked for a few weeks)
97 homes with no Broadband at all (may be location for link ups).
5,852 Homes with FTTP
5,197 Homes with FTTC
12,675 Homes with ADSLx

Well I have just checked about 7,000 homes routing through my Exchange and they either have ADSLx or no broadband (no broadband could be Footway Boxes etc) so it seems that BTO haven't done anything to do with fibre for our exchange for a while now.
So they are either in mid install of fibre and haven't signed the job off as complete yet or they are done with our exchange which really sucks.

Seems only 9 of the 50+ cabinets have been fully fibred up to FTTC, 4 not fully FTTC yet (i.e. a few ADSLx left), and 17 partially fibred up with FTTP, leaving 18 cabinets (was down for FTTP in 2011) not even been touched, 6 cabinets as not part of BT's 66% commercial plan.
Seems that all the partial FTTP installs have all been halted due to nothing has changed for ages.
Like I said that's a total of about 12,000 + homes without fibre (probably be higher if you search by phone numbers instead of NAD Keys)

Hello WWWombat

Well I have no clue here
I just hope we don't get an engineer that just twists the wires together LOL.

As for keeping water out, this seems to of failed to actually do that due to when it rains heavy we loose speed due to the attenuation going up resulting in the SNR rising in trying to resolve the errors, resulting in dropping the connection.

So the cable will need to ne looked at, or the issue won't go away.

Please note we have lived here for over 30 + years and in that time the cable and cabinet hasn't changed, well you can see how old the current cabinet is by the picture that I posted.

Thanks
Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Fri 26-Dec-14 04:48:40)