Connection jitter/stutter issue while gaming.

Gaming on this TalkTalk fibre is unbearable especially for competitive tournaments. There is noticeable jitter/stutter in games (on PCs or console). Lack of hit registration and even "warping" are present, whereby the server shifts the players position erratically at times. This happens when connecting to ANY server in fps games, on different devices which are always connected through wire (Ethernet), not Wireless. RTS games have weird delays. Very noticeable.

A BQM test was performed and it shows inconsistency in latency. Graph below is for this connection.
This TalkTalk fibre BQM

And graph below is a fibre connection from a Plusnet user. For example as a stable connection.
A random stable fibre Plusnet user

Ping tests were performed while the connection was unused.
All devices were unplugged and WiFi was disabled. Similar results on 2 routers (TalkTalk HG533 Router + Trendnet TEW818DR) So this is not a router or hardware issue on this end. Filter and wiring are all in good condition. BT Engineer stated line was top notch in terms of quality during install and green cabinet is very close.

Tracerouting to these servers doesn't reveal any lagy nodes or unusual pings en route. This clearly seems as a service/connection issue.

If anybody can assist with this issue and answer some questions.
1) Is this something TalkTalk will be able to fix, is it in their power? Or it's most likely Openreach? Is this a sign of cabinet congestion or overhaul?
2) Will changing provider to Zen for example help remove this issue?

Any assistance is gladly appreciated.

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Jan-15 12:13:34)

Are you suggesting the Plusnet connection would solve your problem?

No it just shows what a user from another provider can have in terms of stability. Are you suggesting anything?

What is the point of posting the random Plusnet BQM then?

Would posting a non Plusnet, any other random provider make a difference to the solving the issue?

The bqm is good enough that I would not expect to see warping and jumping.

To see if ISP or fttc issue need to compare with others on the same cabinet

I doubt any ISP would consider that your bqm is showing a fault as such

In reply to a post by OkeeOkee:

Would posting a non Plusnet, any other random provider make a difference to the solving the issue?

I can't see any point.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The bqm is good enough that I would not expect to see warping and jumping.

To see if ISP or fttc issue need to compare with others on the same cabinet

I doubt any ISP would consider that your bqm is showing a fault as such

I see Andrew. Thank you for the information. Perhaps true that BQM may not show anything out of the ordinary. But nevertheless there is this stutter issue which is present and very noticeable in games.

We've had different "gamers" visit and they all seem to notice and complain severely about it.

A few more quick questions.

Do you still think that changing provider is likely improve the situation? Perhaps this kind of thing is more often overhaul/ISP issue?
Or preferably find others on same cabinet with different provider and test?

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Jan-15 12:40:36)

Changing ISP might help, but before doing that best to see what performance others get, as you might be moving to one that is worse.

One presumes your console/PC is using Ethernet rather than wireless, and you might find a provider using the up to 10 Mbps or up to 20 Mbps upload will perform better if you are also doing side stuff like voice/twitch

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by OkeeOkee:

Would posting a non Plusnet, any other random provider make a difference to the solving the issue?

I can't see any point.

I could change it to just a "stable looking bqm" from FAQ. Or maybe link 3-5 other random provider bqm graphs? Would that ease the point?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Changing ISP might help, but before doing that best to see what performance others get, as you might be moving to one that is worse.

One presumes your console/PC is using Ethernet rather than wireless, and you might find a provider using the up to 10 Mbps or up to 20 Mbps upload will perform better if you are also doing side stuff like voice/twitch

Affirmative. Thanks a bunch Andrew!

What I'm attempting to ask is, what are you illustrating by posting the BQM?

If the Plusnet BQM is what you want then isn't it a simple fix to move to Plusnet?

@BatBoy: The plusnet BQM graph was there to provide a comparison for a stable random connection (in this case a plusnet connection, but it could have been anyone) against the "unstable" talktalk connection, ie to demonstrate that it is a connectivity quirk that the OP is experiencing as apposed to some negative placebo-type effect. Simply moving to Plusnet doesnt necessarily guarantee the performance shown in the plusnet graph.

To the OP: The later portion of the graph shows some pretty high spikes when compared to the earlier figures, what were you doing as the graph was being recorded??

Edited by mrvanx (Sun 04-Jan-15 13:38:01)

In reply to a post by mrvanx:

@BatBoy: The plusnet BQM graph was there to provide a comparison for a stable random connection (in this case a plusnet connection, but it could have been anyone) against the "unstable" talktalk connection,

Is the stability related to the gaming problem?

The BQM monitors ping responces, and reports them in terms of minimum, maximum etc... (see the explanations for ping and the BQM)

Generally stutters and characters warping and dissapearing in FPS games are related to bad pings (those of us who played FPS back in the 56K days will remember the importance of minimizing pings), ie a higher ping means you are lagging behind the game and things behave strangely, people can shoot you seemingly through walls and you never manage to hit people even at point blank range, etc.....

So the pings graphed by the BQM are not related in any way to the pings to the gaming server?

Not to that particular gaming server no, but they serve as a good barometer of connection quality, ie if something between the home and the internet is intefering with the movement of packets and data the BQM should indicate an issue somewhere.

Have a read up on the links I provided, all the information is there to explain why the BQM was referred to in this thread.

In reply to a post by mrvanx:

Not to that particular gaming server no, but they serve as a good barometer of connection quality, ie if something between the home and the internet is intefering with the movement of packets and data the BQM should indicate an issue somewhere.

So does the TalkTalk BQM indicate an issue somewhere?

Who knows!?

The BQM related o the OPs connection looks worse than the cleaner PlusNet graph provided, but MrSaffron has mentioned it looks generally acceptable enough to not have this problem with the gaming side. It may be borderline useable for gaming, i dont know.

It is up to the OP to investigate further with his/her ISP, assuming the usual thing at his/her end have already been checked (cables, using ethernet rather than Wifi, direct connect to the router etc.. etc...).

So the random Plusnet user whose BQM was posted could have a poor gaming performance as well. Who knows.

Maybe, but with a clean graph like that I doubt it.

Ive started my own BQM to see if it fairs better or worse looking than the OPs graph. Gaming is working fine here, via a switch and a powerline adapter.

If and when your IP address changes it would be kind to delete the BQM, otherwise the next person to be allocated that address may wonder what is going on. It might even mess up their gaming .

A variation of 5ms above average is far from likely to be an issue for gaming.

I don't think the fttc connection is an issue at all, but maybe a peering link elsewhere

If the blue area is a lot wider you would be getting a different answer

In reply to a post by mrvanx:

@BatBoy: The plusnet BQM graph was there to provide a comparison for a stable random connection (in this case a plusnet connection, but it could have been anyone) against the "unstable" talktalk connection, ie to demonstrate that it is a connectivity quirk that the OP is experiencing as apposed to some negative placebo-type effect. Simply moving to Plusnet doesnt necessarily guarantee the performance shown in the plusnet graph.

To the OP: The later portion of the graph shows some pretty high spikes when compared to the earlier figures, what were you doing as the graph was being recorded??

Yes as this is a live snapshot, the high spikes correspond to it being used (gamers were testing it today) after a long idle period. So that's normal.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A variation of 5ms above average is far from likely to be an issue for gaming.

I don't think the fttc connection is an issue at all, but maybe a peering link elsewhere

If the blue area is a lot wider you would be getting a different answer

It doesn't look like a peering issue, as the stutter effect is present on many different servers of different games. (different paths). But it is possible that BQM is irrelevant and maybe a complete separate issue or non issue to the actual problem of stuttering.

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Jan-15 20:19:17)