Neighbours can get FTTC but BT Checkersays I cant

I currently have Virgin cable and was looking to move back to BT or Sky when Fibre available. it is now in my Cabinet and neighbours at bottom half of street are listed but not top half. Street is small cul de sac with 16 semi-detached houses, The 8 houses at top of street are showing Taking Orders but the 8 at bottom part of street show FTTC available and give speed estimates.
Sky shows it is available.
Is this simply the BT database updating is poorly done. All the other streets around using same cabinet (Cabinet 24 on G64 1BJ, G64 1BW, G64 1AB) are showing available, just seems to be the top of my street - nearest neighbour available is literally 10m between their incoming BT line and mine. Also the BT cabling access cover is literally at top of my drive.

What speeds are the others predicted

Up to 80 download / 20 upload

Are you sure you're not on an exchange only line?

Pretty certain not - all checks always show connected to cabinet 24, exchange is 1.7km away, The checks do show orders being taken for address but not available, so checks with anyone like Plusnet say not available, Sky indicatesyes but not really trusting this if OR are inidicating not yet.

If you are off of cab 24, at 1.7k away, you are not going to get 80/20. Summit's not right here.

In BT wholesale checker put in postcode G64 1BJ and house number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10 you get this showing. Put in 9,11,12,14,15,16,17,18 you dont get FTTC.

Probably a database quirk, email [email protected] i.e. me with the details and include your telephone number so that the bad line is easy to spot and will pass onto Openreach for checking/correction.

Any idea where the cabinet is? Is it one on the corner of Angus avenue? If so, that is around 200m by road - so 80 Mbps speeds are possible.

There is always t possibility of two cables from tne cabinet feeding your road, one of which does a large loop. Possible although maybe unlikely.

Yes, I am pretty sure it is the cabinets at Angus Avenue/Westercleddens Road. There is also a small cabinet about size of suticase at bottom of street.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If you are off of cab 24, at 1.7k away, you are not going to get 80/20. Summit's not right here.

Wakey wakey ... Exchange is 1.7km not cab 24

That looks more like a VM cabinet.

This is cabinet 24 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.909189,-4.19943,3a...

Have fired off a database error email. Ideally no reason the providers could not have done the same

Unfortunately with BT Retail, it's 'computer says no' and that's the end of the matter as far as they're concerned.

This is where the smaller guys come into their own though - they want your business, so they fight for it.

I can't be that sharp all the time can I !

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Unfortunately with BT Retail, it's 'computer says no' and that's the end of the matter as far as they're concerned.

This is where the smaller guys come into their own though - they want your business, so they fight for it.

Not true. I have recently started to put someone on an Infinity package with BT. They are likely to get speeds of 2 or 3 Mbps. BT will do it, other ISPs refuse to touch it.

What's not true?

BT Retail don't use ORDI/address mismatch processes properly. They also don't use the process to enquire about fibre availability (if a customer wants to know why he/she cannot order).

If someone rings up to order fibre when there is an address issue (i.e. they should be able to order but the bulk checker/ordering system is not showing the correct technology marker), then BT Retail don't raise it further. I know this because I've raised a dozen or so enquiries myself this year to help people out who've been unable to order with BT Retail.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

What's not true?

Your assertions about BT.

If you can tell us then - when someone (like the OP in this thread) believes he/she can order FTTx but there is appears to be a database error, who do they speak to within BT Retail? Is there a special team or contact number they can use?

All I did was escalate on the call and it was dealt with there and then. Previously they had been told by three or four other providers that it could not be done and none were prepared to resolve it - including their current ISP.

It is often down to the individual - do they actually want to do some real work or take the easy route?

Edited by MHC (Thu 05-Feb-15 11:10:00)

There's a big difference between someone that doesn't have the technology marker on their line/address and someone that has the marker but the CP won't provision because the estimates are very low.

Openreach will provision someone on FTTC with downstream estimates as low as 2Mbps. Most CPs will not provision someone below 10Mbps, because of the quality of service they are likely to get. This doesn't mean there's an address issue with Openreach, it's just the decision of the CPs.

There appears to be a database issue affecting the OP with no technology marker for FTTC. If he rings BT Retail, they will not be able to order FTTC and they will not go through the process of finding out why. The OP can escalate it to a manager within Retail, but the outcome will be the same.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Feb-15 11:22:56)

Initially it was not showing FTTC speeds - whereas we knew the cabinet was live and where it is. Neighbours further away were showing albeit very low speeds however the block of four properties were missing.

At that time none were prepared to do anything. BT had that rectified ... and now all four are showing on te BT checker however, with one of the neighbours the other ISPs are still saying it cannot be provided.

These properties will have had the technology marker though on their lines.

The lowest downstream estimates for FTTC are 0.1-1.0Mb with a dB loss of 33.5 at 300 kHz on Openreach's eMLC. I need to dig out whether Openreach would provision a line as low as that though.

BT Wholesale won't provision if the estimates fall below 2Mbps. This is probably why you won't see FTTC on a line using their DSL Checker if the estimates fall below that. It doesn't mean there's a database issue though.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Feb-15 11:44:17)

The estimates are currently now showing 7.5 clean down to 3 impacted. And it was, from what was said, a database error.

Being realistic, expectations are towards the lower end.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

This is where the smaller guys come into their own though - they want your business, so they fight for it.

I've just had Plusnet take 4 months to fix my database error. That error took less than 2 days to put in by a "survey" and has caused endless problems since.

The problem - the database had me down for the wrong PCP, both of which have an FTTC pairing.

Provisioning telephony was easy enough, as the engineer could ignore the database, and physically change the routing at the right PCP and in the MDF. The temporary ADSL we went with (after so many FTTC failures) went through surprisingly easily.

However, fibre broadband needs a job built with the right PCP. Every engineer who was here for copper/telephony reported the database error back - and nothing was done. Every engineer who was here for fibre had to just walk away, and report why.

From observation, it looked to me like the problem was in getting through BTW.

I think the sticking point would have been Openreach. Plusnet are able to deal directly with them now rather than going through the middle man (BTW) for things like this.

The problem is there's no official process to deal with issues like yours. I do know that a lot of problems like yours are initially dealt with in India (which seems to make life even more difficult). In theory though, they should be simple to fix.

I've been trying to help someone out with FTTP. He's in a relatively new property in an FTTP area, but nobody on his street can order FTTP. He's tried with Retail multiple times, who just keep telling him it's not available with no explanation. I've contacted Openreach and found that the street has no DP and it looks like a developer vs Openreach issue (Retail could have got this information also). The problem is, how do you escalate things like this? There is no system in place for the end users or CPs to officially raise this.

Edit: I should add - what do you think the chances of your issue being resolved by BT Retail would have been?

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Feb-15 13:08:04)

I did checks with all 3 postcodes on the BT DSL Checker and got the following:

[G64 1BJ]
Is on Exchange BISHOPBRIGGS is served by Cabinet 24
Has 9 of 17 homes with FTTC ranging with the following speeds.
Range A: 64.0 -> 80.0 / 20.0 -> 20.0
Range B: 52.9 -> 79.6 / 12.2 -> 20.0

This postcode also has 8 of 17 lines that has no FTTC and also has no Downstream Range value pointing to no broadband.

[G64 1BW]
Is on Exchange BISHOPBRIGGS is served by Cabinet 24
Has 9 of 25 homes with FTTC ranging from the following speeds.
Range A: 69.4 -> 80.0 / 20.0 -> 20.0
Range B: 60.7 -> 80.0 / 12.2 -> 20.0

This postcode also has 16 of 25 lines that has no FTTC but has ADSL2+ with a range of the following speeds.
Downstream Range 4.0 -> 11.5

[G64 1AB]
Is on Exchange BISHOPBRIGGS is served by Cabinet 24
Has 17 of 17 homes with FTTC ranging with the following speeds.
Range A: 66.9 -> 80.0 / 20.0 -> 20.0
Range B: 56.9 -> 80.0 / 12.2 -> 20.0

Low value being the lowest speed you will get depending what end of road you live.
All speeds is in Mbits.

As for the 8 home for postcode G64 1BJ I suspect that's due to not having or never had broadband on those addresses, or maybe just a database error.

Paul

Paul,, I had look at the ones closest to my street and all active, the ones inactive may be further from cabinet. For the G64 1BJ, this impacts me and I had Broadband through BT line via Bt, Talk talk and Sky between 2004 and 2013 so database error is looking likely.

This maybe down to a missing record in a database table resulting in just -- being displayed.
Strange its happening on 8 homes, if on a single home then yeah I would suspect this, but 8 homes, would be a huge error

Paul

Not huge at all when database is tracking some 28,000,000 + premises

I guess, I was more referring to all 8 affecting the same info, normally this would happen if they was moving database records about and forgot linkage to other tables, but seeing all the other info fine.

Either way its probably a database issue.
Also has the OP if on BT tried both their tests, these update that information.
i.e. the following:
http://diagnostics.bt.com/login/?workflow=Speed and http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/

I think the second one changes that info which is why it askes for both your address, postcode as well as your phone number.
I know it did for ours, but I think there is a delay before it changes.

Paul.

Cant do telephone number check as number currently with Virgin Media

In reply to a post by cj2015:

Cant do telephone number check as number currently with Virgin Media

Ok, well on the second link, do the test then once the first test completes click on further diag whatever button and when it asks for your phone number, door number and postcode just enter the door number and post code, leave the rest blank.

Paul


Tried this, the postcode/house number on this test is only for FTTP. ADSL and FTTC need the telephone number.

Chris

In reply to a post by cj2015:

Paul


Tried this, the postcode/house number on this test is only for FTTP. ADSL and FTTC need the telephone number.

Chris

Oh, never knew that, I have always put in all info that I know.
Sorry.

Paul

Check on Sky sites again tonight and now Sky is also saying not available (same as BT). Looks like I will have to stick with Virgin for now.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

I think the sticking point would have been Openreach. Plusnet are able to deal directly with them now rather than going through the middle man (BTW) for things like this.

I'm pretty sure my contact in their CRT team was dealing with BTW. It doesn't help that they regularly refer to 'our supplier', but we had one stage where he named BTW separately from Openreach - when he had to argue with BTW to get an escalation within Openreach.

The problem is there's no official process to deal with issues like yours. I do know that a lot of problems like yours are initially dealt with in India (which seems to make life even more difficult). In theory though, they should be simple to fix.

So BTW support their CSP's through India too? (Or is that Openreach?)

My problem (before that escalation) was being handled in Leeds. I got the impression that was the Openreach dept dealing with the database, but I could have been wrong on that.

The problem is, how do you escalate things like this? There is no system in place for the end users or CPs to officially raise this.

Where is the best place to do this? BTW isn't the answer for some CSP's like Sky or TT. Meanwhile, lazy or insufficiently-trained/skilled staff at ISPs can easily derail the less-determined, less-technical end-users.

Imagine what my problem would have been like had the survey error put me on an EO line instead...

Edit: I should add - what do you think the chances of your issue being resolved by BT Retail would have been?

As ever, its a case of who you know, not what you know.

In Plusnet, the turning point was when one of the CRT (website) staff took the problem seriously enough, and took ownership. If I'd left it to the normal phone staff acting as intermediaries with the back-office provisioning staff, I'd likely still be waiting.

For BT, I imagine the issue would be similar with getting Indian staff to go off-script; and I'd aim at getting the BT care staff on their website involved.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I guess, I was more referring to all 8 affecting the same info, normally this would happen if they was moving database records about and forgot linkage to other tables, but seeing all the other info fine.

Could be a fault in the record for the DP.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I guess, I was more referring to all 8 affecting the same info, normally this would happen if they was moving database records about and forgot linkage to other tables, but seeing all the other info fine.

Could be a fault in the record for the DP.

Maybe.

Thanks MrSaffron, seems to have done trick - FTTC now showing available at my address.