Sky Fibre - not in master socket

Hi.

I'm getting Sky Fibre soon, which is now self-install (no separate modem required).

It's recommended that I use the master socket (downstairs), but there isn't a power supply next to it.

If I use a phone socket upstairs, does anyone know roughly how much speed I might lose?

I know it depends on the quality of the wiring and other factors (it's a fairly new house), but even a very rough estimate would be great.

Almost impossible to even guess.

Could be 1kbps or 20Mbps ... you have said it yourself "depends on the quality of the wiring and other factors " especially noise from other devices, or dodgy cabling - there is plenty out there.

If you disconnect the ring wire and your extension is the only one then probably not much difference

... at the master socket ....

Using the service on an extension will produce a 'bridge tap' on the VDSL service. This will be detrimental to the service, simple as that.

Thanks for the replies.

It really doesn't sound optimal.

When I chatted with a live advisor online, I told him there was no power source next to the master socket, and he reassured me that everything would be fine.

At this point, I didn't know about self-install, so assumed the Openreach engineer would overcome any issues.

I will speak to Sky again tomorrow and perhaps they can sort something out.

You could buy a data extension cable and a filtered faceplate like the openreach mk 2 or 3 , BTOR SSFP MK3 and re config the extension wiring , + line box for modem to plug into (assuming internal extension wiring is twisted pair cable and not that [censored] flat stuff)

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 27-Feb-15 00:00:53)

If you are just on standard Sky fibre 40Mbps I doubt it will make a difference.

IE on the 80Mbps product... say in the master you may get 80Mbps, in the extension you may get 60Mbps.

On a 40Mbps product, both extension and master would yield 40Mbps, as both speeds are higher than the 40Mbps anyway.

It's always best to use the master though.

Easy way to find out, try it! If it's slower in the extension it'll recover if you place it back in the master (will take a few days possibly nothing major).

Do you have other knowledge about the OPs line? How do you know the OPs line is capable of getting more than 40Mbps?

The recommendation I have for situations like this is to test it first using the test socket without any extensions connected (that is with the faceplate removed) using a temporary power supply. Now record the line stats, speed etc. (I don't know what diagnostic stats the Sky modem/router provides though). Then reconnect the extensions and perform the same action at the extension socket. If there isn't a substantial deterioration in the important stats (like sync speeds, attenuation, noise margin etc.), then it should be fine. If there is, then it might be worth looking at improving things.

However, before you perform any tests there are some things which you should really do :-

a) if there are any other extension sockets besides the one you intend to use for the modem/router, then I would strongly recommend getting a BT Interstitial faceplate filter or one of the third party VDSL filter faceplates available. Then wire those extensions through the filtered outputs.

b) if there is only one extension, then disconnect the ring wire at the master (connection 3). You will have to use a microfilter at the extension socket if you intend to use a phone there (or one of the third party filtered extension sockets).

Note that (despite what somebody has posted), running a VDSL modem off a single extension socket doesn't create a bridged tap, or at least not a significant one, as the tiny little link to the master socket is too short to make a difference. However, any other extension sockets will create bridged taps (unless filtered). Also, if plugged into the master with even one unfiltered socket attached, then that will constitute a bridged tap, which is why any master socket tests should be performed with all unfiltered extensions disconnected.

The general rule is that the VDSL modem should be the last connection on the line from the cabinet without any unfiltered branches. (Indeed, that's true for any xDSL technology).

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 10:01:00)

Longer than what I posted and yes agree

Sky Hub gives line stats when used as modem and router

The situation at the moment, having spoken to Sky, is that they can arrange for an Openreach engineer at a cost, but they suggested getting an electrician to put in a new power socket might be cheaper.

I'm now considering whether it's worth spending money to do this or perhaps even that I should cancel the fibre order.

Alternatively, I could go ahead and use the extension socket. There are several extension sockets in the house, and I don't think we are that far from the street cabinet. I've opted for the 40-meg package and the full speed has been estimated. Currently, I'm getting about 2.5 meg downstream.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 12:49:29)

Can't you use a mains extension lead to get power near the master socket?

I can't see you losing too much speed on an extension socket anyway.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 13:01:52)

The VDSL2 faceplates are very easy to get hold off.

Fitting that at the master socket takes care of all the extensions, and then you just move the one extension and only that extension to the A/B connectors shown by yellow arrow in http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/images/test-s...

More pictures of how it all goes together/comes apart at http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/

To get the wires into the IDC connector you need the right tool e.g. Krone Tool cheaper plastic ones are available, but they are disposable as in use once or twice then through away

A new mains socket will not be cheap, particularly if you want it done neatly with chased cabling. The Openreach option will not be cheap either, as its a £99+VAT charge i.e. engineer install.

But that depends on how the sockets have been wired up in the first place.

Another question...

(Sorry if this should be another thread) but I understand Sky provides two microfilters with the Hub.

There are five phone sockets in use in my house. Do I need to buy new microfilters for VDSL or are the ADSL ones adequate?

In reply to a post by Cagneyrat:

Another question...

(Sorry if this should be another thread) but I understand Sky provides two microfilters with the Hub.

There are five phone sockets in use in my house. Do I need to buy new microfilters for VDSL or are the ADSL ones adequate?

not if you install the ssfp which would fiter all extensions , otherwise you would need a filter for every device that is connected to an extension phones sky boxes

ADSL ones are adequate as they are all low-pass filters.

Just a thought, at the preferred location where there is no power socket, any chance there is a power socket on the other side of the wall? If so then a good electrician could add a socket on the other side by just drilling thru the wall and neatly fitting another socket. Or the quick 'n dirty DIY solution is to drill a small neat cable sized hole thru the wall and connect either an extension power strip or a neat surface mount patresse back box and 13 amp socket.

There is a socket in the garage on the other side of the wall. I'm considering the solution of drilling a small hole in the wall - as you've said, Roger - so I can feed the power cable through to the router (the router-end isn't very big).

Good, sounds like the perfect solution. Cost effective, uncomplicated and achieves exactly what you need with relatively little effort. Job done. As they say, the simplest solutions are always the best. If it was me I'd run a round 13 amp cable thru the the wall and fit a double wall socket and back plate (less than £4 on eBay). One it would hide the hole and Two you've then got another 13amp socket available for other things even if it's just the Hoover.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 18:22:01)

He says that he has 5 extensions in the property, there's no way that that isn't going to make a big difference to his sync rate if uses the service with microfilmers and on an extension.

I said "Say in the master you may get 80Mbps." Notice the careful usage of the word may.

My post then builds upon that.

Nowhere does it state the user will get those speeds it's just a theoretical example.

I am now going to use the master socket (since I found a solution to my first issue).

I can receive Fibre Pro on my line (up to 80 meg), but have opted for the 40/10 product.

Taking into consideration that my line speed is capped, I presume that fitting a VDSL faceplate won't have any discernible benefit over microfilters.

A faceplate will have benefits. If your extensions are not filtered at that point you will have a set of additional paths down which the signal can and will flow. When it gets to the microfilter at the end it will be rejected and reflected back up the line to the point where the modem is installed. The reflections will be out of sync and out of phase with signal there and thus be seen as noise.

I think the advice is fit the VDSL faceplate if you are going to plug into that socket. it is not much money to just fix this as a future issue.

Fit the VDSL faceplate, it's all all pluses with no negatives for a relatively small outlay. Eliminate all possible future problems now. No brainer IMHO.

As no rewiring is required, it seems like a good thing to do.

There are brand new Openreach Mk3 faceplates being sold on eBay and Amazon. They cost about £8 on eBay, but £19 on Amazon. That's quite a huge difference in price for the same product.

Is £8 a standard price?

Won't the extensions need rewiring?

According to this video, they don't.

It looks like the extensions are on the front plate, and the Mk3 slots between the back socket and the front plate, sitting over the extension cables.

Is this not the case?

I only need the VDSL signal on the master socket, and I only want voice in the extensions.

Looks good, I was thinking your master wasn't like that.

It has the removable lower section, so it looks like an NTE5.

The house is only about 12 years old.