BTW Checker Error?

Hi all,

Quick question: is there any way to contact BT Wholesale regarding a possible error in their availability checker database?

The reason why I think there's an error is a bit more wordy. I'm on the Kilmacolm exchange and in the past whenever I've put my address into the BT Wholesale checker is has come back that I'm connected via cabinet 2, same for all the nearby streets - from what I can tell cabinet 2 seems to serve this half of the village, cabinet 1 the other half.

At the end of last year the Digital Scotland people announced we would be getting FTTC in the first half of this year. When they put up their own checker page it concurred with BTW: I'm on cabinet 2 and would be able to order FTTC when it is installed.

Contractors working for Openreach have now turned up and started excavating next to cabinet 2. So hoping for perhaps a firm date when FTTC will be available I put my address into the DS checker... and apparently I'm now on an EO line! The BTW checker also no longer has any reference to cabinet 2.

This is also the case for all 4 addresses in my building and 2 of the 4 addresses in the neighbouring building, even though all the lines run to the same pole. (can't check phone numbers as my line is full TTB LLU and everyone I know on my street is also either with TT or Sky).

So you can see why I'm hopeful this is just a DB error, and one I'd like to get sorted before having to fight the 'computer says NO' attitude of ISPs when trying to order fibre.

Many thanks.

I'd wait until the cabinet is live and ready to order before chasing up, the databases are fluid and hopefully final checks as cabinet goes live will resolve this issue for you.

I will live in hope then

I've just spoken to someone who lives not 100ft from the cabinet and they're getting the same issue, line now being reported as EO when it wasn't before. Fingers crossed it'll get sorted out for everyone.

Just to update - cabinet 2 has now gone live and FTTC availability has shown up on the BT checker.

Unfortunately the error persists; myself and a couple of my immediate neighbours who were previously shown as being on cab 2 are indicated as being on EO lines, while others (who live in buildings constructed at the same time and whose phone lines run to the same pole on the street) can now order FTTC.

What's the best course of action now?

I assume you are somewhere near the cross? As you say, there are only 2 cabinets for the whole village (BTW Cabinet 1 looks like it is nearly ready too) but, according to this some of the EO lines near the cross may be getting FTTP soon.

Are you able to see if your postcode is one of the lucky ones?

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-May-15 16:04:44)

I'm actually at the beginning of Oldhall Drive.

I know there are some EO lines serving premises at the Cross, makes sense since the exchange is so close there. But I'm seriously not convinced my line is EO - it used to show up on the checker as connected to cabinet 2, and the only BT ducting here runs down Woodrow Avenue and then takes a left toward cab 2.

Possibly found a way around this. I have a family member who lives just round the corner and can order FTTC; getting a new line run in there with FTTC and accessing it via a fixed point-to-point wireless link seems viable. It's only 30m or so with clear line of sight. But it's going to cost around £250 for the wireless hardware and associated bits and will be a major faff to install, so obviously that's the plan of last resort.

Any suggestions for an ISP (A&A, maybe?) that could be persuaded to take a fibre order on my existing line and get an engineer sent out to try it? Or alternatively order a new line plus FTTC, with the proviso that the whole order gets cancelled if the fibre install isn't possible?

What/who is in the way of the link?

Have you considered finding a way to run an external Cat5e/Cat6 cable? Cheaper and more reliable that radio.

A neighbour's garden is in the way and unfortunately they're very unlikely to let me dig even a small trench for a cable. It's possible I could get away with stringing some cat6 overhead, but it would have to be at roof height and these are two storey buildings, so mounting it would be a pain. Shame I can't just hire a mini tunnel boring machine, that would be convenient

I have to admit while I've worked in IT for over 20 years I'm not a cabling guy and issues like electrical potential difference between the two buildings are way out of my comfort zone, whereas I've used this sort of wireless kit (Ubiquiti M5, specifically) multiple times with very good results.

Moling,simple solution,you can hire a 'Grundomat Moles',brilliant kit, used one to lay a new water main.
No intrustion to your neighbour's garden, just need to put cable down deep.

http://www.speedyservices.com/08_2500-h-mole-45mm

Edited by Nightglow (Tue 26-May-15 16:10:01)

In reply to a post by DrBC:

I have to admit while I've worked in IT for over 20 years I'm not a cabling guy and issues like electrical potential difference between the two buildings are way out of my comfort zone

You can get pre-terminated fibre assemblies, with gland nuts fitted and the pigtails already fused on. One end of the assembly will have a tube over the gland nut with a draw-eye, which you use to pull the assembly through the duct (or similar). The other end of the assembly has the pigtails in a plain protective tube.

Once you've installed the pre-terminated cable, you click the pigtails into couplers in the back of a fibre patch panel, and you're ready to go.


I've got a 4 fibre OM3 assembly between two buildings here, which is lit as two redundant 1000BaseSX connections. There was no point running single mode fibre, which requires more expensive optics, as even OM3 is good enough for 10GBaseSR over the relatively short distance involved. As I have no need for additional bandwidth between the buildings at present, there's no point upgrading the connection to 10 Gigabit.

I think that's a rather more elaborate setup than I'm aiming for

Anyway, a suggestion from a friend makes me wonder if I'm looking at this the wrong way; he noticed some phone line extension kits designed for permanent exterior use. Possibly it would be easier to carry the phone line between buildings rather than ethernet - anyone have experience of that?

Seems a bit extreme.

Fyi, Cab 2 went live on 22 May, Cab 1 is due to be finished shortly and they are putting in a third cab soon for EO lines - all covered by BDUK Scotland.

Pre-terminated fibre is not as expensive as you might think, especially if you have switches at each end with empty SFP ports. 1000BaseSX SFPs can be had for well under £100 each the last time I looked. If you don't have a switch with an SFP slot, you can get media converters with a 1000BaseT port and a SFP port - I believe ZyXEL are one vendor.


If you're going to the civils cost of burying or pulling a cable, my choice would be to install fibre rather than copper. If you want the easy install option, I'd go with wireless, as you originally suggested.

I would go for OM4 rather than OM3 if installing multi-mode fibre now, as the extra cost is likely to be negligible and OM4 is specified for longer 10 Gigabit reach than OM3. You only need light the fibre using cheaper Gigabit kit for now.


Be aware that many external grade cables are not suitable for underground use. Only cables designed to be moisture resistant should be run underground - the cable is filled with gel to help keep moisture out. I wouldn't expect the cable in an external phone line extension kit to be gel filled - that cable is designed to be run up an exterior wall and has UV resistant insulation. If you are direct burying rather than running through duct, you should really use armoured cable or fibre.

Fibre has the added complication of a large minimum bend radius, though twisted pair metallic cable shouldn't be bent too tightly either.


The neighbour's garden is an issue, as you really ought to have a formal wayleave to cross it. The current neighbour might be happy with an informal arrangement, but without a wayleave a new owner could insist the cable or fibre is removed.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Fyi, Cab 2 went live on 22 May, Cab 1 is due to be finished shortly and they are putting in a third cab soon for EO lines - all covered by BDUK Scotland.

Ahh, that's very interesting indeed. In my experience is that BT's definition of 'soon' probably isn't at all similar to mine, but that does make me lean toward a temporary fix of FTTC on a six month contract and wireless PtP gear that can be sold once it isn't needed.

In reply to a post by David_W:

The neighbour's garden is an issue, as you really ought to have a formal wayleave to cross it. The current neighbour might be happy with an informal arrangement, but without a wayleave a new owner could insist the cable or fibre is removed.

No chance of any agreement, formal or otherwise unfortunately. There is a fence running between the three gardens which is dilapidated and a no-man's land as nobody wants to get stuck with the bill for fixing it. I could probably get the cable through there without incurring any negative feedback, although it'll push the length out from about 30m to 80-90m.

The bodge solution from a cabling point of view would be to lay some external grade category 5e (or better cable) on the surface between the two locations, using the area of unknown ownership so long as you are sure you won't go over 100m total including patch cables. 100m is the length limit of Ethernet over twisted pair cabling. Having said that, such a solution makes me shudder from the point of view of engineering good practice.


Point to point wireless may well be the best solution if Openreach are not likely to serve your address directly in the immediate future.

I believe Pulse8 offer FTTC on a rolling monthly contract - there will not be many providers offering a minimum contract period below 12 months, as the ISP has to take the wholesale Openreach FTTC product with a 12 month minimum contract period.

Wireless is looking like the preferred solution right now, from a lack of hassle point of view.

Also, I've heard back from one of the ISPs I queried about this situation and they say they could not get an FTTC order through as it stands but from what they can see on their systems it should be possible if I get a new BT PSTN line run in. Have to chew over whether it's worth betting the install cost on that one.

After a bit of checking I've confirmed as for as is possible that nobody in the two buildings that the checker shows as no go for fibre have a BT line, it's all TT and Sky. The others however do seem to have at least one BT line present.

So, I'm pleased to report a positive outcome of sorts: I now have FTTC, via a rather round-about way.

In the end I went with a wireless link as the easiest option. There is now a Ubiquiti Nanostation Loco M5 on each building, approx 30m apart. The M5s are probably major overkill for this, but they're cheap and it never hurts to over-spec things a bit.

Setting them up was easy-ish but complicated a little by the default settings assuming a link range more in the order of kilometers rather than meters, I had to drop transmit power to minimum and disable the proprietary airMax system to get best performance.

After weeks of testing I'm ridiculously pleased with the M5s. The built-in speed test is showing slightly over 100Mbit/sec in each direction while receiving and transmitting at the same time, suggesting the 100MBit ethernet port is the bottleneck. Ping time over the link averages around 1.4ms, with 5ms the highest I've seen so far.

I haven't yet placed an order for FTTC (dithering over the choice of ISP) but my family in the other building decided to have their Sky ADSL2+ upgraded to fibre so the plan was for me to share that for a while until I can get my own line run in.

Of course when Openreach is involved nothing goes smoothly. The original date for the upgrade came and went with no change and Sky perplexedly saying that OR was reporting a code 530, indicating the work had been done. When it plainly hadn't. Then came promises that things would be sorted within 24 hours, or 48 hours, or in a few days. And finally a story about the port in the cabinet being broken.

But after nearly a month of back-and-forward the line is now syncing at 79.98/19.99 and DrBC is a happy bunny once again. I've gone from this:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14341...

to this

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14350...


Which is a substantial improvement I think you'll agree

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Jun-15 17:51:02)

I assume the sawtooth on te upload is down to buffering and teh wirelss link. What happens if you test at the actual master - or should I say the other people test there.

I'll do a test locally tomorrow and see what comes up. The speed test gives an A for upstream buffer bloat, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

I limited upstream to 18.5MBit in the access point on my side of the wireless link, which smooths it out nicely:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...