BT Infinity 1 versus 2 on long line

I have BT Infinity 2, distance from cabinet is just over 1 mile.
Estimated download speed is 25Mbs down, 5.7Mbs up.
Actual is around 10Mbs download, 1 Mbs upload.

Does Infinity 2 speed drop off more quickly than Infinity 1 over long lines?
Would I be better off in terms of speed/reliability with Infinity 1?

As the technology is the same your speeds under Infinity 1 should be the same as Infinity 2 but you would save yourself some money.

So are there no technical differences in infinity 1 versus 2?
This implies a 40/10 service is just a capped 80/20 service.
If not achieving at least 40/10 then having an 80/20 service would be technically pointless. Is this correct?

Correct. there is no technical difference.

In fact 80/20 is also a capped service as an unrestricted could achieve 120Mbps downstream and maybe well over 30 upstream (depending on band plan).

Yes, your having an 80/20 is pointless - so go down to Inf1 and save money.

If your line is really a mile long, then you should never have been sold Infinity 2 as it would never be able to have got over 40mbps. I would go back to BT retail and get your product changed to save some money.

Incidentally, as you are some way off the estimate (which itself sounds optimistic for a line of a mile long), then have you checked this under optimal conditions with any extensions disconnected. This means connecting to the test socket (accessed by unscrewing the faceplate). Even if you don't have a power socket close to the master socket, it's worth using an extension cable temporarily just to establish a "best case" baseline. If this is a lot better, then it's worth reviewing optimising the domestic extension wiring, filtering and so on.

Also, it would be very useful to have the line stats (especially upstream/downstream sync rates, attenuation and noise margin).

In house cabling is best case with Huawei modem connected to master socket, so not sure if all stats available.
Line speed had been higher, now deteriorated, but up/down IP profile looks strange.

BTW test results:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 4.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 3.82 Mbps-4.77 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 4.77 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.96Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

OK. It sounds like home wiring is optimal.

Those stats look dreadful for any form of FTTC. Many people have ADSL2 better than that. Unfortunately, unless you have an unlocked modem then I don't think you can get the line stats. It might be worth contacting BT if there's been a serious deterioration.

Of course if the cable is actually a mile long it's never going to be good, but that looks awful. I know there will have been more cross-talk as take-up increases, but without knowing what it was before, I can't easily tell what's happening. If it is cross-talk, then the only obvious hope is for if/when vectoring is finally implemented.

Sounds like a good case for 'ADSL from the CAB' ! .

Ask BT if it's available yet.

Check your distance from the cab to your house with this tool.
http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

The "up" profile always tells you the capped speed for the line, and has nothing to do with the actual sync speed. The "down" profile, on the other hand, is directly related to the sync speed - but approximately 3% lower.

That means the sync speed is dreadful compared to your estimate in the original post.

What are the two ranges of speeds when you put your number in here?
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

The best advice now depends on how much you want to fiddle yourself, or whether you wish to leave it all to an engineer. On the first path, you'd unlock your modem, and start monitoring the line statistics. On the second path, you'd report the dire speeds to BT.

Dslchecker results
High Low High Low

FTTC Range A (Clean) 34.7 25 7.4 5.7 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 27.3 14 7.1 3.3. -- Available

BT Hub5 after reboot ( direct with huawei modem removed)

3. Firmware version: v0.07.03.0814-BT (Type B) Last updated 24/2/2015
4. Board version: 01
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 03:22:53
6. Data Rate: 1233 / 11967
7. Maximum Data Rate: 1229 / 14507
8. Noise Margin: 6.2 / 6.5
9. Line Attenuation: 0.0 / 33.1
10. Signal Attenuation: 0.0 / 0.0

That gives you a sync speed of just under 12Mbps, for which you should see download speeds of 10-11Mbps.

Line speeds can deteriorate over time, as the increased take-up causes noise which affects your line. For that reason, the checker gives a range that should make allowance for that.

However, the sync speed is under the bottom of the Impacted range (which allows for poor house wiring), and a long way under the clean range (which is for clean internal line installations).

With those numbers, BT would probably get an engineer out.

Or would you rather do some troubleshooting first yourself?

The attenuation of 33dB is a big clue to the line length, irrespective of the impact of home wiring they line is pretty long, 22dB is around 1.3 km if feeble brain is recalling numbers correctly at the end of the week so something that is 1.8km long might be possible.

This fits in with user description of just over a mile, i.e. the BT estimate is wrong basically. This may be because they are a long way from the DP as I believe the estimates are often to the DP and if you have a long drive etc this is not taken into account.

Edited by MrSaffron (Fri 13-Mar-15 18:27:18)

For info, DP is approx 350m from the property in a rural location.
Most of the cabling from property to the DP was recently replaced.
ADSL service gave approx 2.3Mbs down.
As MrSaffron notes it does look like an optimistic VDSL estimate given the distances.

So the follow up questions are
- what is the best combination of ISP/router/modem for VDSL over long lines (1.5 to 2 km) which gives a reliable service, and
- at which point is it better to stick with ADSL?

Usually the HG612 or ECI modems do the job quietly and well

As for sticking with ADSL, depends on what speeds you get with ADSL, plenty of people getting 2 to 3 Mbps will happily upgrade to 10 Mbps from VDSL2, i.e. its an individual decision to be made on things like is an extra xyz Mbps of upload speed worth the extra money?

I investigated dropping to Infinity 1 but this would cost more(!) as I'm on a discounted deal on Infinity 2.

BTOR was out and checked the line back to the cabinet but found no issues. They advise they have done all they can. Speed is approx 10Mbs down, 1Mbs up, but this occasionally dives like today to < 0.1 Mbs down, whilst up stays at approx 1Mbs. Restarting the OR Huawei HG612 modem brings it back to 10/1.

Is there anything further I can do to keep the service stable?
Manually switching the modem off and on is a pain.

I recall in the earlier days of ADSL the Netgear (model DG834G I think) was more tenacious than other routers over long line copper broadband. Any similar wisdom or experience with long line VDSL2 modems/routers or tweaks to the setup would be welcome.

G.Inp is currently being rolled out and should help. I can't see how restarting the modem would restore speed. I think restarting the router would though.

Is the modem a model 3B, with a white power plug, or is it the earlier one with a black power plug? Whichever it is, does it get quite hot, rather than just a bit warm?

A 3B has it on the label underneath.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 23-Mar-15 23:03:22)

It's a 3B with a white plug. It does get warm, but not very hot.

Should be OK then, but it might be worth trying a new one off eBay. Including swapping the plug.

Thanks RobertoS.
HG612 unlocked now in place. Performs like original modem, with 11Mbs download speed dropping to 2Mbs or less on occasions.
At least I can gather the stats now and restart the modem using the webgui to increase line speed again.
I've started to read up on VDSL - mainly from info provided by the experts on this forum - thanks guys.
Would still be interested to hear if further tweaks to improve long line perfomance or other recommendations.

Just to update the story....
Broadband availability checker shows 25/5 (low) speed estimate
Actual speed is usually 11/1 with occasional drops to 2/1 requiring a modem restart

After long hold periods on phone to ISP, multiple call backs, and visits from BTOR the ISP has accepted that what I've got at 11/1 is as good as it gets. BTOR engineer advised that the property is approx 2.4 Km from the cabinet and 800 m from the DP.

So as I understand it the speed is what would be expected for the distance from the cabinet and the DSL speed checker is estimating high as it only measures to the DP and ignores the last hop to the property.

ISP agreed that I was not achieving the estimates and after some negotiation downgraded my service from 80/20 to 40/10. This allowed a new service package to be applied to my account and a price adjustment.

I still have an unlocked Huawei HG612 in place and await the introduction of G.Inp.
Now how do I find out when it might be applied to my cabinet?

It helps if your cab is a Huawei as currently that's the one that G.INP has been applied to. No evidence of G.INP having been applied to any ECI cabs as far as I know.

Which exchange are you on?

From studying the band profile on the HG612 modem the cabinet is a Huawei.
Although at times when the speed was rubbish I thought I was connected to a green wheelie bin.
I'm on NIKTS exchange.