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Would be useful if BT briefed their own support staff too!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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It is up to BT Consumer to brief its own support and thus this information will have to go down the chain now the providers have it.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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At a quick read, plus a minute's study of the graphic, I don't understand the graphic. Maybe because "High" and "Low" are not really defined.
It's also odd that it is downstream latency that increases rather than upstream, and only in one case, when upstream G.INP is not supported.
Edited by RobertoS (Fri 24-Apr-15 17:19:21)
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Sorry, RobertoS. I wouldn't be able to help with the graphic as don't have the required knowledge of the subject. My interest in G.INP is new and purely because I am affected by it (I have ECI modem on Huawei cabinet), and so I simply wanted to share the article.
Perhaps someone else would be able to shed more light on the info and clarify.
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You should get a Broadcom based modem.
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Potentially, I will, but I have no immediate needs for that despite an impact on speed and latency. I am monitoring the developments at the moment.
Being with Plusnet, gateway issue seems to be of a bigger importance than anything else at the moment.
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You would be surprised at the difference G.INP makes.
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I don't understand why BT would choose to invest in ECI cabinets, if they are technically inferior to the Huawei cabinets.
Obviously it must be a cost saving, though it seems a rather idiotic decision to me.
I assume at this point it time it's unclear if ECI will release a firmware/driver/software fix to enable upstream G.INP, would be typical if they didn't and half the country on ECI cabinets have to pay the price.
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I know, it's already made a massive difference to my line. 
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I blame Asbokid. If he hadn't unlocked the Huawei HG612, there would have been no need for Openreach to get all paranoid.
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At a quick read, plus a minute's study of the graphic, I don't understand the graphic. Maybe because "High" and "Low" are not really defined. The graphic appears to have been shorn of context, somehow.
It's also odd that it is downstream latency that increases rather than upstream, and only in one case, when upstream G.INP is not supported. This seems to explain the issue:
- Retransmission can operate in both downstream and upstream channels simultaneously, although ECI equipment (either modems or DSLAMS) doesn�t currently support upstream retransmission.
- Any infrastructure that doesn�t support retransmission in the upstream will default to interleaving, increasing upstream latency by approx. 8ms
It appears that ECI modems don't support upstream G.INP with the currently deployed firmware (the same issue affects other equipment using the same chipset, such as the BT Home Hub 5 type A). When G.INP is enabled on such a line, upstream interleaving is enabled in place of the unavailable upstream G.INP, adding 8ms of upstream latency. As many lines didn't previously operate with such a large depth of upstream interleaving, this manifests as a higher first hop round trip time (worse "ping" in gamer speak).
Edited by deleted (Fri 24-Apr-15 19:20:21)
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But seriously, I am looking at Billion 8800NL. Just miffed that I have already bought my own router when joined Plusnet, and now facing the fact that I might need to buy another one.
I'll give a couple of weeks and if there no update to ECI modems, then I'll probable get a Billion.
Thanks for the advice, by the way.
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I blame Asbokid. If he hadn't unlocked the Huawei HG612, there would have been no need for Openreach to get all paranoid. I presume this is tongue in cheek. It would be almost unheard of for a project as large as Openreach's FTTC deployment not to have a second source supplier for key equipment.
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And look at the good it's done them.
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I don't understand this ?
The 8800NL and 8800AXL support up and downstream retransmission ? why would you buy another one ? or you mean you have the eci and are buying a billion ? if so just do it without question. I got the 8800AXL due to lost sync speed with G.INP and have not looked back.
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Wasn't getting at you  . I was wondering why Openreach hadn't made it clearer, or if they did why ISPreview didn't copy it.
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If you look again at the graphic David, it appears to be the downstream where the latency is added. Not the upstream. And only on one line, not two.
Hence my difficulty understanding it.
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I have an 8800AXL and am on a Huawei cabinet but there are no signs of G.INP becoming active. Any ideas why not?
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I have an 8800AXL and am on a Huawei cabinet but there are no signs of G.INP becoming active. Any ideas why not?
How long did you have this ongoing connection for?
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See stats below. Prior to that had been up for 14 or 15 days.
Stats recorded 25 Apr 2015 00:22:44
DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa485 / v0xa485
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode: VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 4 days 4 hours 33 min 1 sec
Resyncs: 4 (since 16 Apr 2015 21:54:42)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 25.2 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 37563 6278
SNR margin (dB): 6.4 5.1
Power (dBm): 13.1 3.6
Interleave depth: 735 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not enabled
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.8356 0.4571
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0102 0.0000
ES/hour: 3.93 0.84
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Did you updated latest firmware to support G.INP? What is your current firmware?
P.S. According the Billion forums the latest beta dh65 firmware for the AXL does support G.INP
Edited by adslmax (Sat 25-Apr-15 00:28:52)
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I downloaded the dh65 beta yesterday but have not flashed the box yet. Billion forums indicated my current version 2.32d.dm12 was ok but will follow your suggestion and see what happens. Thanks.
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I downloaded the dh65 beta yesterday but have not flashed the box yet. Billion forums indicated my current version 2.32d.dm12 was ok but will follow your suggestion and see what happens. Thanks.
U need to upgrade the firmware. But make sure u power down modem for 30 minutes while you upgrade the firmware dh65 and then switch back on and leave it for at least 24-48 hours before DLM will activated G.INP on your line.
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No signs of G.INP still even after flashing with latest firmware - maybe my cabinet is not enabled?
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ok - will power off for a while as I did not do that as you probably gathered from my last post Thanks
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hahaha
if only openreach still were giving everyone locked modems and noone had hacked the firmware eh
all these customers been a nuisance able to see whats going on
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I dont know about almost unheard off, but historically openreach/BT do like to have dual vendors. Talktalk/sky seem happy with a single vendor tho for their dslams although sky stb's were multiple vendors on their tv service.
The problem with multiple vendors is it creates a lottery for quality of service. As in my experience they tend to not be equal on a technical level.
With sky stb's e.g. all those years ago when I first signed up to them, it was known their amstrad boxes were the worst (slowest responsiveness).
With BT in their adsl max days I remember for months on end massive stability issues, then aaisp forced BT to shift me to a new dslam which happened to be a different vendor, the line was still dog poo, but the different dslam managed it significantly better.
Now on FTTC we have hauwei vs ECI, and I moaned some months back how ECI users might not get g.inp or vectoring, is this going to turn out to be true? Note if BT do roll it out but it doesnt work properly it maybe considered the same as not having it.
Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 25-Apr-15 06:50:22)
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First post.
I can confirm that the firmware Frank was using on his Billion 8800AXL does support G.Inp
Stats recorded 25 Apr 2015 09:15:44
DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa451 / v0xa451
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode: VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 15 days 22 hours 28 min 55 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 24 Apr 2015 18:59:11)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 9.2 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 20000
SNR margin (dB): 7.9 12.8
Power (dBm): 14.2 7.2
Interleave depth: 16 8
INP: 46.00 47.00
G.INP: Enabled
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0012 67.7807
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
Kam
ETA: Frank you will have to wait up to 48 hrs or possibly more for G.Inp to be enabled on your line, it doesn't happen immediately. That doesn't explain why it hadn't been enabled on your line with your previous firmware. Are you sure you are not on a EC1 Cab? Can you post what it says under the pbParams tab inDSLstats?
Edited by deleted (Sat 25-Apr-15 09:25:45)
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Here goes:
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 6319 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46104 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6355 Kbps, Downstream rate = 38623 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2106)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961)
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Interesting, from that it does indeed appear you are on a Huawei cabinet. I notice from a thread that you posted in on another forum that Blacksheep has confirmed all Huawei cabs have definitely been enabled for G.INP despite some speculation OR had maybe halted rollout on the last few remaining cabs due to the problems that have been caused.
Kam
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Yes - I'm trying to understand what is happening as it is unclear from the forums if all Huawei cabs are enabled or not. Would seem to be the latter in my case.
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Blacksheep is in the know, I would take more notice of him than most
Edited by deleted (Sat 25-Apr-15 12:05:01)
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Blacksheep is in the know, I would take more notice of him than most
Lovely fella that he is; Blacksheep is on the payroll of British Telecom. Shamelessly, he's taken the king's shilling, as it were. Joining BT is like signing up for MI6 or the Hare Krishnas. It's a commitment for life. Once you're in...it's for good. With no exit strategy except death, natural or otherwise. BT disciples behave like your classic cult-member: ruthless and unremitting in dedication. Indeed, the Art of Perfidy is the first lesson they're taught at BT's top-secret propaganda training unit. As such, treat their every word with the utmost caution.
Incidentally, only just realised that the new Cult Leader at BT Openreach, Joe Garner, was former UK chief of HSBC, the HongShang as the Chinese call it; the dirtiest money bank in the world. Here's a song on the HongShang; chorus from the ladies, please.
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In a rollout the size of BTs FTTC it makes good business sense to have 2 separate suppliers/manufacturers. That way if one starts having supply issues you can continue the work with the other. Relying on a single supply chain could cause major delays and additional costs on a large project.
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Yes - I'm trying to understand what is happening as it is unclear from the forums if all Huawei cabs are enabled or not. Would seem to be the latter in my case.
The cabinet may well be enabled, but DLM may not have decided to enable G.INP on your line for some reason. There could be a number of reasons why not, including "I looked at the response from your modem and couldn't parse it to determine if it supported the right things".
--
Brian
Zen Fibre 2
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Quick question - If a line is already on interleaved, but would be better off on fastpath with G.INP, will DLM notice this and do the necessary, or would it have to wait until DLM was reset before it would do this?
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On mine, my connection went from interleaved to G.INP as soon as I attached a modem that supported G.INP.
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Thanks for that, I'm running a Huawei modem but my cab is ECI, so theoretically as soon as my cab is enabled, it should stick me on G.INP instead of interleaved?
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Don't hold your breath. I don't think G.INP on an ECI cab will be anything to write home about.
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48+ hours on and still no signs of G.INP. Looks like either a DLM reset isn't getting triggered or the cabinet is not enabled given we know from other comments that the modem I use (Billion 8800AXL) does support G.INP
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I have seen in business's I work for where there is a backup supplier, where they will be used if the primary supplier has a problem, I agree generally you want some kind of backup, but that doesnt necessarily mean both have to be used alongside each other.
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Does it have the right firmware level for G.INP support?
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Does it have the right firmware level for G.INP support?
All available firmware for the 8800AXL supports G.INP
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The firmware that came with the box already supported G.INP but I flashed it with the latest beta available from Billion just in case.
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Post deleted by MrSaffron
Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Apr-15 15:18:18)
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Where do you suggest they should have sourced their kit? Are you happy about Huawei?
Edited by RobertoS (Wed 29-Apr-15 16:45:36)
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Feel free to discuss the technical merits of a supplier but what you posted went beyond that.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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