Photos - FTTP or FTTrn?

I'm guessing it's just FTTP but I've never seen it set up quite like this. It's a small village, and a very small part of the outskirts of a village at that (It's Kersey Tye in Suffolk if anyone wants to know). I don't know whether it was a BDUK-funded project or the residents there clubbed together to get ~10 of them FTTP - I am guessing they would have the cash. Anyway, assumptions about people's personal wealth aside, can Andrew/whoever confirm a couple of things with these pictures please? They aren't the best pictures because it was getting really dark and I only had my phone, so I've photoshopped the contrast and saturation to make them less impossible to see. I'm linking to them directly but obviously please magnify them in your browser to get a proper look. Or if Photobucket tries to show you a page-sized version, just mouseover it and press the + magnifying glass.

This is the bottom of a pole. I'm guessing the green box contains an array of splice trays?

This is the top of the same pole. What are the ...urm... black plastic bits which the fibre wraps around for?

Here is a better view of the green fibre splice tray/DP? Just down the road. No power warnings, hence my guess at them simply containing loads of splice trays. The yellow sticker on the pole says "Caution Overhead Fibre" - presumably a warning to poorly-trained OR people who might be expecting copper up there?

From what I could see, about 6 or 7 properties had FTTP from those two and a couple of other poles - but they're obviously planning something on a rather bigger scale? I've seen a photo of a pole with FTTP run to it but no connected customers (in Cornwall, on Andrew's site I think?), but that photo had existing copper. Here's a brand new pole which they've just shoved the "larger" yellow-striped tubing up, and nothing else.

Any info appreciated, I want to know more about all of this. I assume the green pole-boxes are to replace what would usually be in the footway box in front of a fibre cab, but as this is FTTP and has no cabs, they have to put them there? Also, you've got the location up there. I don't know if they can just take a main fibre feed off a spine (which I think runs along the A1071 nearby), or they'd have to take it from the nearest head-end? I think EABFD is too small to be a head-end (and SamKnows mis-locates its location by MILES, EABFD is in the middle of Boxford, as you'd expect, not Colchester). EAHAS (Hadleigh, Suffolk) may be a head-end, and I'd love to know a definite answer to that, but from watching roadworks I think this lot in Kersey Tye is probably "fed" from EASUD (Sudbury, Suffolk). Or, with FTTP, might they just run an independent fibre tube from "wherever" and then deal with dividing it up locally?

That is all the information I have, and those are all the questions I have. Thanks in advance for any information/answers.

Quick answer yes openreach fttp my cornish pictures include live manifolds too, live when black tube exits from top

Not seen all pics as on phone but a curve radius has to be maintaned so may look 'odd' as drop tube to premises added when people order

In the top of the pole the wrapped stuff is stopping the tube from being compressed where it would otherwise be squashed against the ring at the top, i.e. keeps the hollow tube open so fibre can be blown through.

Really need a postcode or something better than just outside Kersey to pin down the exchange

0.4% of premises in Suffolk County already have access via GEA-FTTP
83.2% fibre based or 74.8% at 30 Mbps or faster

If the phones are connected to cabinet 1 at Boxford then they will eventually be getting FTTP funded by BDUK. Some of the Kersey Tye area looks to be included much of it is not. If you are one of the properties you are talking about put your number into the BT checker here: https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Telep... and if it says you are connected to cabinet 1 in Boxford then yes you are down for FTTP. If not bad luck!

Some further info for you, here are all the postcodes served at least in part by cabinet 1 Boxford so some or all of the numbers in each postcode will get FTTP as indicated in the box below in % terms.

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1...

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

I'm guessing it's just FTTP but I've never seen it set up quite like this. It's a small village, and a very small part of the outskirts of a village at that (It's Kersey Tye in Suffolk if anyone wants to know). I don't know whether it was a BDUK-funded project or the residents there clubbed together to get ~10 of them FTTP - I am guessing they would have the cash. Anyway, assumptions about people's personal wealth aside

Very good assessment of the South Suffolk demographics. The incumbent was disgraced Thatcherite MP, Tim "yoyo-pants" Yeo. Even at the height of Yeo's philandering, he somehow commanded a 10,000 majority for the Tories.

A supremely snooty patch, and then some. We canvassed the constituency for the 1997 general, in a trusty Lada Samara. Our luminary was a stalwart CPB member; a retired shop-steward from the Wapping Dispute. Lovely fella; he certainly knew the enemy. But in that bumpkin-backwater, we were on a hiding to nothing. In fact, if memory serves, one beefy farmer threatened to shoot us!

South Suffolk: wasn't that the last place to burn witches? Says it all. That lot don't deserve the telephone, never mind FTTP.

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Edited by deleted (Sun 03-May-15 05:11:38)

Well what an insulting post to anyone rich or poor (yes there are poor) who just happens to live in South Suffolk! Completely irrelevant to the forum and the OP's question.

Yup; plenty poor. We know the area well. Especially the gritty "overspill" estates on the Essex border of the constituency. The grinding legacy of Government policy from the 70s-80s. HMG / GLC cleared the ex-docker communities on the Isle of Dogs. Forcing distraught East Londoners from their beloved homes of generations. Planting them out in the shires, like South Suffolk. That policy articulated in "'Till Death Us Do Part"; it was Alf Garnett's chief bug-bear.

Those "slum clearances" freed up the west of the Dogs for building the new financial district, Canary Wharf. Ethnic Cleansing at its worse. Destroying and dispersing tight-knit communities and creating a multitude of new social problems. Problems which alas live on today on the "overspill" estates of snooty South Suffolk. That's why we were canvassing for your vote in 1997! Here's betting we didn't get yours, Jax2!

Do you think bringing FTTP to those handful of multimillionaire households in snobby little hamlets is money well spent? What about the high-density "overspill" estates in the same district? Don't they deserve it first? Any thought for the Common Good here? Wouldn't FTTP bring far greater socio-economic benefit to all those deprived homes? Their chance to gain real benefit from the digital economy? Just where is BT's FTTP roll-out policy defined? Where can we read about it, and who wrote it? Does the public have any say in it? Surely we should. After all, we've ploughed some £3 billion of public money into fibre broadband deployment.

BT Openreach: better back in public hands, like Railtrack? Oh yes!

Beyond the political ranting, I'd be interesting in hearing what this £3bn of public money is comprised of? That some does match up with of the amounts announced.

The original question has been answered quite well from what I can see. Not too sure why there's a need for a political rant or the insults to a large number of people, though.

Please restrict your political ravings to a more appropriate forum. Your post does little more than make yourself look ridiculous and stupid since it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

Political ravings/ranting may well belong on a different forum, however there was no need to add that the poster made himself look ridiculous and stupid as well .

In reply to a post by KelvinBridge:

Political ravings/ranting may well belong on a different forum, however there was no need to add that the poster made himself look ridiculous and stupid as well .

Thanks for your kind words of support, Kelvin. Calling their political opponents "ridiculous and stupid" is way below the belt, even for the Tories. Though when canvassing for the Communist Party we suffered far worse abuse, especially in South Suffolk. Did I mention that one bumpkin-farmer threatened to shoot us? The Tories ain't called the Nasty Party for nothing!

C'mon guys, lighten up a bit! It is after all the Sabbath. The day of rest. The day that God put His feet up, too; lit Himself a nice fat Havana; and poured Himself a well-deserved stiff drink (Jameson's no doubt); before admiring all the Public Infrastructure He had built over the six days previous. I'm sure He won't mind me saying that it's amazing what you can achieve when you put your mind to it!

If only BT would follow His example in their fibre rollout. Instead of the sinful balls-up we've had from them to date.

Applying Band-Aid after Band-Aid just to keep their wretched telco network from collapsing in an unedifying heap. First we had that g.vector blundering - will it work? Or won't it? Nope, it won't. Then g.inp that also won't play ball with BT's el-cheapo cabinet kit. Then that DLM/Assai code-pilfering scandal. Not to mention all the other ECI catastrophes. Retro-fitting those heatpads in the DSLAMs to keep the slugs off the PCBs. For chrissake! Heath-Robinson or what?? And all that dodgy new cabinet kit costing a fortune but obsolete already; fit only for landfill before it's even installed. Shameful. Then those flaky promises of g.fast being just over the horizon. Sorry guys! False alarm! Let's aim for the next horizon, yes?!

Britain must get this train-wreck of a telco network back on its feet again, and pronto. And let's aim for the sky this time. Fibre-to-EVERY-Premises is quite possible this side of 2020. All it needs is a bit of cash. About £30 billion should do nicely.

Though how to pay for these great Public Works programs? How to fund these major Internal Improvements as Abe Lincoln called them? Burning questions that have challenged economists time over.

In the case of the telecoms network, we must first renationalise the infrastructure unit, BT Openreach. Bring it back into public hands, so we can administer public help. It's a monopoly anyway, so it may as well be a public-monopoly. Minimally compensate BT shareholders; reimburse them no more than the flotation price (130p) they paid in 1984.

Then the incoming government needs to create a National Bank; one that will issue Public Credit for major infrastructure projects, just as China has been doing for the last four decades. Greatly expanding its public works programs of late, throughout the region, with its new Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. An economic policy that the wider BRICS group of nations wisely intends to follow suit, too. With their own New Development Bank issuing their own credit for infrastructure work across the BRICS nations (Brazil-Russia-India-China-S.Africa).

Fibre To Every Premises (FTEP) is a very worthy candidate for a Public Works project for Britain. All funded by Public Credit. That Credit secured on the future access fees for the new FTTP network. Those access fees guaranteed from the increase in productivity and production through the technological progress of having a fibre-only network with gigabit access speeds.

The new credit-issuing National Bank would operate under vastly different rules to the Bank of England. All but side-lining the latter with its discredited policy of "Quantitative Easing". Utterly wasted money which could and should have been invested directly into the physical economy, providing credit for new public infrastructure works. But, instead, that new money was blithely pumped, with no strings attached, into the bankrupt "Too Big To Fail" private banks. Since the end of Glass-Steagall rules on banking separation, those banks were then allowed to fritter that new money -- OUR money -- just as they had previously been doing -- by speculating in the casino-like derivatives trade. Only temporarily propping up the already bankrupt financial system. Merely postponing the next looming financial crisis.

Funding new infrastructure works through Public Credit issued by a National Bank has its roots in the United States. In fact it's called the American System or American School of Political Economy. A policy eloquently described by Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton was the very first Secretary of the U.S. Treasury; one of the founding fathers of the USA and an economic genius.

Throughout its history, when the USA has implemented Hamiltonian National Bank and Public Credit policies, it soon has found itself in conflict with the oligarchic monetarists of Old Europe; adherents of rabid free-market racketeers and imperialists like Adam Smith, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Maynard Keynes and so on. Since the 1780s, it has been a ceaseless battle for those sincere economists working towards Hamiltonian Principles, formulating policy that does issue Public Credit for projects that benefit the Common Good, projects that do further the General Welfare of the People.

Here's the Draft Legislation to restore a National Bank of the USA; it's a Bill of Congress that could soon be tweaked for the British Parliament. Where there's a will there's a way!

Cutting through the banal soundbites of this 2015 election season, what do Brits really want for Britain? A raft of major infrastructure works including a fully fibre-based telecoms network? Future-proofed for decades to come? Delivered by 2020? And costing a paltry £30bn? Funded entirely through Public Credit issued through a Hamiltonian-style National Bank?

Or, alternatively, do they want another £6 trillion (that's £6,000 billion) of new funny money, injected every few years into the collapsed Anglo-American financial system, through that absurd policy of "quantitative easing", just to keep the bankrupt City of London and Wall Street alive for a little while longer on life-support??

It's a no-brainer, isn't it?!

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Edited by deleted (Mon 04-May-15 04:02:56)

Blimey (I'm the OP).

I do live in the South Suffolk Constituency but I'm probably what everyone would call "poor", or "poor-ish". I live in nearby Hadleigh, where nearly all of us have FTTC (one of two EO-rearrangement cabs went live very recently I think). I'm still with ADSL2+ because it's slightly cheaper and I get the full real-world rate.

I was just on a bit of a walk and thought "Blimey, proper FTTP with green pole-boxes and everything!". It may not be a select few paying for it at all, it may simply be the start of a larger rollout to Kersey itself, evidenced by the new but as-yet-unconnected poles.

I believe Kersey primary school has has some form on broadband for a couple of years now, as it has line of site with Hadleigh Industrial Estate, which is home to several mobile operators' masts.

I think I can provide you with a postcode which definitely has FTTP from one of the poles in question, but I can't be 100% accurate just by clicking on postcode-finder sites.

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-May-15 00:56:08)

@Edwincluck
Do you actually remember how bad 'BT' was when it was in public hands as the GPO?
Do you remember how long it took to get a simple repair mended - and then two people turned up to re-connect a broken wire?
Do you remember the colossal over manning and total waste of money that it consumed?
Well I do - as do many others.

As for the banking system I don't think you would have enjoyed the result if the likes of RBS & HBOS had actually been left to go bust.
Th personal accounts would have been a minor 'problem' - the real issue would have been the corporate accounts - those of credit card companies, airlines, petrol stations, supermarkets. water companies, energy supplies.
So what with current accounts non functional, so suppliers not being paid, your credit cards not working, fuel supplies running out as deliveries could not be paid likewise food becoming scarce, airlines ceasing to operate, maintenance ceasing on energy infrastructure, etc the UK would have been reduced to a barter style economy within a week or so.

As far as I'm aware there is not an Officially designated 'Bumpkin Shooting'' season recommended on tbb, and anyway most peoples routers don't shoot very far !!

pps. and you are definately mistaken about Jamesons, Laphroaig Quarter Cask would be far more likely !

Kersey itself is not at present down to receive FTTP but is merely down for "Under consideration for fibre between 2015 and 2018" whatever that means. The FTTP poles must be for properties that are supplied by Boxford PCP 1 which does reach out a thin finger in that direction. Kersey itself gets it's phone supply from Hadleigh I believe.
I do live in the area supplied by Boxford PCP 1 (not near Kersey) so am, much to my surprise, down to eventually get FTTP. Jolly glad too as my ADSL is unreliable in the extreme as well as slow mostly due to lots of ancient PO days aluminium cabling which is crumbling away as it has oxidised over the decades.
The fibre is BDUK funded and after making enquiries was told that for the diverse area supplied by that cabinet FTTP was the cheapest option as the cabinet is too far from most of the supplied properties for FTTC to be effective.

Kersey does indeed gets its phone supply from Hadleigh - PCP 10 is on a little grass traffic island close to the church. I was sort of ignoring that though, to be honest, as I knew Kersey was never on the commercial FTTC rollout - and Hadleigh supplies Bildeston with FTTC, whilst Bildeston has its own telephone exchange. Bildeston is quite a way further away from Hadleigh than Kersey is, too, so that surprised me. I think they had an easy cabling route, though, along The A1141>B1115. I watched half on roadworks.org and half in real life as they struggled to pull it along there.

@zom22

Heh! I can just remember BT in public hands. A long time ago. The sell off was 31 years, 3 weeks and a day ago. But who's counting?!

You can remember such terrible service under the GPO? Are you sure? It's just that time and the professional mind-benders can play funny tricks with our memories. Sometimes we're told we remember things, when in truth we don't. All I can remember from the 1980s are the ever-happy GPO linesmen of the day, walking with a skip in their step; holding hands in solidarity; all with beaming grins on their cherub faces! How times change!

To be serious, the BT privatisation was engineered by the secretive Mont Pelerin Society (MPS). The MPS micro-managed government policy of the day. First objective of the MPS was to demonise the state-owned industry and its assets. Lots of poisonous rhetoric was planted in the corporate press to loosen up the public mind; readying the people for the state sell-off of the GPO. Same with the NHS today, or the Royal Mail last year. Convince us that it's beyond help, and that handing over the 'family silver' to oligarchic private-ownership is the only cure.

Though you're right about the banks. They play a critical role in the economy. They can't fail. However they must be put through bankruptcy reorganisation. The British (and American) banks went bust decades ago. That bankruptcy reorganisation must safeguard the banks' crucial commercial functions: their retail deposit-taking, their loans to small-medium businesses, pension-management, household mortgages and so on. Whereas throwing to the dogs the banks' exposure to the derivatives market, mortgage-backed securities (MBS), collateralised debt obligations (CDOs), "carbon swaps", and other "exotic" forms of worthless speculative paper.

That separation of commercial banking and speculative casino-finance is key to getting Britain back on the road to true economic recovery.

As proof there's nothing new under the sun, an identical banking reorganisation - one that separated commercial banking from "investment" finance - was performed at the height of the Great Depression, way back in the 1930s. An economic depression that once again was caused by casino-like speculation by the banks. In 1933, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's government enacted a law known as the Glass-Steagall Act; named after the two congressmen who sponsored it.

Coupled with a huge Public Works program of the day - known as FDR's New Deal - the Glass-Steagall Act all but halted the economic depression of the 1920s and '30s. Instead, ushering in an extraordinary new era of economic optimism. Which subsequently turned the United States into the most powerful and wealthy nation in the world; far surpassing what remained of the British Empire. To be blunt, we would be living under Nazi rule today if the USA hadn't, thanks to FDR, been in that critical financial position to assist Britain during WWII. Churchill saved our limey asses? Forget it! Roosevelt was our true hero!

In 1999 the Glass-Steagall Act was tragically repealed with catastrophic consequences. By 2007-8 we were witnessing an unprecedented Global Financial Collapse (GFC).

In 2013, Britain was very close to enacting a Glass-Steagall Act of its own; with Parliamentarians proposing FDR-style banking separation - that same separation to safeguard the critical commercial functions of the banks from the seedy underworld of speculative finance. That banking separation proposed as an amendment to the 2013 Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill. The City of London has never experienced banking regulation along the lines proposed. It would have been a turning point in the exercise of parliamentary sovereignty over the Square Mile. Sadly the proposals lost by just 9 votes in the House of Lords. Ultimately defeated by the Nasty Party that receives over 50% of its funding from the supremely corrupt banking industry.

Enough talk of banksters. This is Bank Holiday Monday; a rare day of rest from the slime-mould of the City! Though for those with a stomach for banking reform, some Ozzy friends have put together a pamphlet on the importance of a Glass-Steagall separation of the banks:

The London and Wall Street-centred world financial bubble is today far larger than in 2008. To avoid a financial collapse and a likely new world war, we must cancel the bubble: split the "too big to fail" megabanks into speculative investment banks (with no government protection), vs. normal banks which invest in the real economy. The CEC�s new pamphlet, Glass Steagall Now!, tells you exactly how to do it.

If Brits want Fibre to Every Home; not just Fibre to select suburbs of West London, then serious reform of the banking sector is needed first. In telecoms, as with so many other sectors of the economy, the Brits deserve far better than we get today.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-May-15 01:55:29)

Can edwincluck's posts be segregated into a different thread please? I wanted this to be about real-world implementation of fibre (of whatever kind) in 2015.

I'm not saying he should be censored; I'm not a fan of censorship at all. But I think it's a bit off-topic. I'm also not saying that just because I started the thread, I get to say what's said in it - that would also be ridiculous. But my small comment about some people in the area I photographed possibly having enough money to fund FTTP themselves (with absolutely no evidence, and the caveat in the first place that I was making massive assumptions) seems to have triggered several rants which might spoil an extremely simply Q&A thread about what the various types of FTTP/FTTrn do and don't look like.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-May-15 01:39:48)

In reply to a post by edwincluck:

South Suffolk: wasn't that the last place to burn witches?

Possibly you're right, here. If you're talking about Suffolk County, Massachusetts.

Naw! Hopkins heartland -- Hadleigh, Suffolk! Wasn't there a cult horror movie made about the infamous Witchfinder General: Matthew Hopkins? How long have your family lived there? You might spot an ancestor among the ghouls watching a burning?! Or even an unlucky female forebear going up in smoke!

It's been nearly 20 years since we were last there. Oh my, isn't it looking bourgeois! Result from displacing all those london overspill elsewhere (yet again)! And unless my map-reading's skewy, beneath these new executive homes was a "top-secret" underground nuclear bomb silo, for USAF Lakenheath. Not wishing to distress the neighbourhood, nor the house prices, but if I was one of those executive homeowners (if only) I'd be carefully checking the readings from a Geiger counter. Just to be on the safe side!

Cheers! Edwin

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-May-15 06:06:08)

Absolutely agree with you gazzyk1ns. There is a place for political discussion but not here, time for me to give up on this thread I think but thanks anyway for your original post.

If people want to wear their political colours on their sleeves they are free to do so with the bounds of the rules of reasonable discussion, but hijacking of other threads is not the way to get views across.

If discussion of which political/financial system is the best then a different thread is the way to go.