Placement of FTTP BTOR External Box on house wall ?

Just a quick question about the external box (this box) that BTOR install and fix to the wall of the building that's getting FTTP installed.

Does this box need to be a couple of feet off the ground or can it be fitted the top of the wall just under the gutter.

The reason that I ask is we want the fibre installed upstairs at the front of our house right with the phone line is attached to the wall where we have all our networking stuff.

And to save having to install a mains extension to where the cables come into the house (i.e. Front Room/Living Room) and into the hardware they install and then running via a CAT5e to our Switch upstairs, I would really like for it to be installed upstairs, resulting in less cable for them to install.

So can BTOR do this, or is it just tough you have it where they want to install it.

Because we have a few spare mains sockets and a huge area of space on the wall by the window for it to be mounted on in our networking room.

Thanks

Paul

Cannot recall what the Openreach developers handbook says, the answer should be in it.

No you have to take it off and put it on my house and then get them to cone to me

edit "come" :/

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-May-15 16:00:06)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Cannot recall what the Openreach developers handbook says, the answer should be in it.

I guess I can ask BT when the time comes to order, probably still got a little while yet

But I am sure the BTOR Engineer could be persuaded with a few cups of Tea and some Jammy Dodgers and Digestives

They would have to do that it these was flats here.

Paul

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

No you have to take it off and put it on my house and then get them to cone to me

edit "come" :/

LOL, I will limit the bandwidth to 1bps to your Network Cards MAC LOL.

Paul

In my case that box is installed close to the ground on the outside of the house, as it is for all of the other FTTP installs in my close.

However, the output from that box is a fibre cable that can be up to 30m long that connects that box to the ONTE.

In my case the cable runs up the wall, enters the loft through the soffit, runs through the loft and then down through a hole in the ceiling in the corner of the upstairs room that I use as an office. The ONTE is fixed to the wall along with its battery backup and a switch. The ONTE connects to the HH5 and to my Dect base station and the HH5 then connects to the switch with all of my other network connected devices.

The box (customer splice point) has to go close to ground level as no engineer in his right mind is going to balance the splicing machine at the top of a ladder.

In reply to a post by AL66:

The box (customer splice point) has to go close to ground level as no engineer in his right mind is going to balance the splicing machine at the top of a ladder.

Ah, I see your point.

Paul

That would work as well for us.
I didn't think that they would run a long fibre cable from that box up the outside wall and then in through the hole drilled and then into the hardware.

So I guess I would have to explain this to both BT and the BTOR Engineer before they start my end.

But at least its doable

Now time to wait

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I didn't think that they would run a long fibre cable from that box up the outside wall and then in through the hole drilled and then into the hardware.

That is how mine is, the Openreach engineer drilled the hole through the wall even though I offered to do it.

In reply to a post by cajef:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I didn't think that they would run a long fibre cable from that box up the outside wall and then in through the hole drilled and then into the hardware.

That is how mine is, the Openreach engineer drilled the hole through the wall even though I offered to do it.

Ok, so if its fibre into that box and fibre out of it, then up the wall into the building and then into the hardware.

So basically that external box is in fact a single version of what we have in our pit/chamber by our pole.
So if we have say a tree fall down and break the fibre outside then all they would need to do is just add a new fibre cable from the box in the pit/chamber up the pole to our house down the wall to the external box and that's it.

A quick question...
At any point does it need to touch the NTE5A Master Socket?
In theory it shouldn't, but our NTE5A Master socket with the BTOR MK3 filter faceplate is downstairs.

Paul

A quick question...
At any point does it need to touch the NTE5A Master Socket?
In theory it shouldn't, but our NTE5A Master socket with the BTOR MK3 filter faceplate is downstairs.

Paul

Only if if you're getting FVA (Fibre Voice Access, ie, telephone via the fibre, incoming copper becomes redundant) - even then, only if you want to be able to use any existing phone extension sockets in the house - otherwise just plug the phone into the ONT.

See here

In reply to a post by AL66:

A quick question...
At any point does it need to touch the NTE5A Master Socket?
In theory it shouldn't, but our NTE5A Master socket with the BTOR MK3 filter faceplate is downstairs.

Paul

Only if if you're getting FVA (Fibre Voice Access, ie, telephone via the fibre, incoming copper becomes redundant) - even then, only if you want to be able to use any existing phone extension sockets in the house - otherwise just plug the phone into the ONT.

See here

Hmm, how much more does that cost or is that covered by the current phone line bill?

It might be a good route to go due to our copper line is terrible, every now and then we get a static screech that gets louder.

So if the worst comes to the worst I will just fit my own NTE5a Master Socket along with a BT80A (have a few spare somewhere) in the upstairs front room (Networking Room) and ask if they could re-do the copper line to that (its a mess that was done by BTOR a while back) it would result in a shorter copper line coming into the house.

I could then wire the actual phones up later, would only require some CW1308 cable (have a 100m reel) from the new master socket to the phones, I keep meaning to re-do the internal phone wiring.

I am sure that they would do it for a couple of cups of tea, a few jammy dodgers and a slice of cake to celebrate the 4 years wait

Paul

I opted for FVA. It was actually switched over a few days after the fibre install. There was no additional cost. The Dect base station plugs into the ONTE and there is no copper involved anywhere. We do not use hard wired connections as the Dect handsets work throughout the house.

In reply to a post by brightd:

I opted for FVA. It was actually switched over a few days after the fibre install. There was no additional cost. The Dect base station plugs into the ONTE and there is no copper involved anywhere. We do not use hard wired connections as the Dect handsets work throughout the house.

Oh, I wasn't aware of DECT so I did a lookup.
Hmm, seems that our current BT Cordless phones (BT6500) (quad handsets) supports DECT, so if this is true, then all we would need to get is the actual DECT Base Station and plug that into the ONTE, connect up all the phones handsets and it should be ready, that's good to know.

The only issue is the answer phone that is built into the current BT Base, this is located in our living room so that we can screen our calls, if we when with a DECT base station connected to the ONTE we wouldn't hear the calls on the answer phone, unless I run that cable from the ONT downstairs.

Anyway that's all miles away from happening at the moment, and we will decide on what needs to be done when the fibre gets installed.

But at least its doable

Thanks

Paul

How do you screen calls? By looking at the screen on the base station hand set? If so does the same information not show on all handsets. Another hand set in the living room with a charger should to just as well. Most modern systems also have an indicator of a message on all hand sets and the ability yo listen to the messages from any hand set.

In reply to a post by brightd:

How do you screen calls? By looking at the screen on the base station hand set? If so does the same information not show on all handsets. Another hand set in the living room with a charger should to just as well. Most modern systems also have an indicator of a message on all hand sets and the ability yo listen to the messages from any hand set.

Na, we let everything go to answer phone and if its anyone we know we pick up.

The phones supports blocking where you can block different types of calls like overseas, withheld numbers and so on, and these blocked types just go to answerphone and doesn't ring the phone.

But we prefer to just screen them.

Paul

Just to echo AL66's comments, spot on, you'd need a cherry picker to allow for a splice to be done at the eaves. Even on properties which have an overhead feed, the blown fibre tubing is run down to a splice point a couple of foot from the ground.

Well basically we have some fibre hardware in the BT Pit/Chamber by our pole and then the black tubing with yellow strip up the pole to the black bottle thing.

So when they install the fibre they would need install it from the pit/chamber up our pole (following copper wire) to the top of our house (just below our gutter) and then tacked down our wall to the external box (couple of feet from ground) and then from the box back up the wall and then through the drilled hole in the wall into our upstairs front room.

Does that sound right.

Paul

The 6500 system is DECT. Not just "supports".

The question I would be asking is whether an extension cable for it could be plugged into the ONT so that you could keep it where it is. I expect it can, but don't know.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The 6500 system is DECT. Not just "supports".

The question I would be asking is whether an extension cable for it could be plugged into the ONT so that you could keep it where it is. I expect it can, but don't know.

I am sure I could make a cable that plugs into the ONT down to where the old NTE5a Master socket is and change it to a BT80A Junction Box.

But I guess I will have to wait until it all gets done, that way I can see what I need to do.

I wonder if you can get a DECT Stand Alone Answer Phone.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I wonder if you can get a DECT Stand Alone Answer Phone.

?
You have a DECT answerphone, and the handsets needed to pick up the messages [puzzled]. An answerphone with no handsets might not be too useful.

In reply to a post by brightd:

In my case that box is installed close to the ground on the outside of the house, as it is for all of the other FTTP installs in my close.

Does the box contain a connector that enables the downstream cable to be replaced easily by unplugging it?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I wonder if you can get a DECT Stand Alone Answer Phone.

?
You have a DECT answerphone, and the handsets needed to pick up the messages [puzzled]. An answerphone with no handsets might not be too useful.

The answerphone we have is built into the phones base unit connected to our current copper line, my understanding of DECT is if I get a DECT base unit that connects into the ONT the original base unit that currently has the answerphone in wouldn't work (i.e. not connected to anything) and the BT6500 Handsets would connect to the new DECT Base Unit, so the handsets would still work but with no answerphone feature.

Or am I misunderstanding how DECT works?
I am assuming the wireless communication between the BT6500 base unit and the 4 handsets is the DECT part?

Or is there an extra option that I am not using on the BT6500 system due to it being connected to the copper line?
Like for example if the BT6500 base unit is not connected to the copper line and we had a new DECT base unit, would the BT6500 base station detect that new DECT base unit?

I wasn't aware of DECT until it was mentioned on here, so I am trying to get to grips of it.

Paul

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by brightd:

In my case that box is installed close to the ground on the outside of the house, as it is for all of the other FTTP installs in my close.

Does the box contain a connector that enables the downstream cable to be replaced easily by unplugging it?

I don't think there is any connector in there.
Here is an image I found of it open.

I see it as a single version of the one you get in the BT Pit/Chamber.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

The answerphone we have is built into the phones base unit connected to our current copper line

The "phones base unit" simply plugs into the telephone socket on the ONT.

See "ATA Interface" here https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super...

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-May-15 20:58:39)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

The answerphone we have is built into the phones base unit connected to our current copper line

The "phones base unit" simply plugs into the telephone socket on the ONT.

See "ATA Interface" here https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super...

Oh it has a built in analogue telephony adaptor, so that connector on the ONT acts like a copper phone line, should save me buying anything, do you know what connector it is on the ONT for the phone base unit?
Is it RJ11, RJ45, BT431A, BT631A? some of the screen shots are hard to see but it looks like a BTx31A type.

Thanks

Paul

The ONTE has a number of connectors not all of which are activated. On Installation a GB EtherNet pot is active which plugs into your Router (HH5 or replacement). If FVA is activated then a standard phone socket is activated which you can plug either a standard phone or your current answerphone base station.

DECT is Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications which is the way that modern cordless phones communicate. I did not mean to suggest that you would need to but anything new. I just unplugged my base station from the copper master socket and plugged it into the ONTE after the FVA was activated.

There are also 3 additional EtherNet ports which are not active for Set top box, TV and undefined and a second phone port that says FAX.

The BT 6500 base unit is a DECT base unit. I said that earlier, but without a link.

Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications (Digital European Cordless Telecommunications), usually known by the acronym DECT, is a standard primarily used for creating cordless phone systems. It originated in Europe, where it is the universal standard, replacing earlier cordless phone standards, such as 900 MHz CT1 and CT2

from the wiki page for DECT.

In reply to a post by brightd:

The ONTE has a number of connectors not all of which are activated. On Installation a GB EtherNet pot is active which plugs into your Router (HH5 or replacement). If FVA is activated then a standard phone socket is activated which you can plug either a standard phone or your current answerphone base station.

DECT is Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications which is the way that modern cordless phones communicate. I did not mean to suggest that you would need to but anything new. I just unplugged my base station from the copper master socket and plugged it into the ONTE after the FVA was activated.

There are also 3 additional EtherNet ports which are not active for Set top box, TV and undefined and a second phone port that says FAX.

Yeah, I got a bit confused, After reading the Wiki Page I was aware of the DECT being the actual communication between the phone base unit to the phone handsets and where a DECT Base Unit was mentioned I assumed that I would need that to use our existing handsets, but now know this is not the case and all that I would need to do is wire in a cable from the ONTE TEL1 socket to our existing line which is to be re-done and taken away from our existing copper line.

So all the features that are disabled by the ISP (i.e. BT for us) also disables the ports on the unit, that makes sense, at least that would remove confusion to where connections go, in our case all that would be coming from the unit is the following:

1. WAN Link (I assume, unless all in one unit) to the HH5 or any VDSL2 modem/router and from there to our 1Gbit Switch.
2. Cable from the ONTE TEL1 to our new phone line network round the house for the following devices:
   • Phone Base Unit.
   • 4 x SkyHD Boxes.

And that should be it, unless I missed something.
Also what is that slim unit that gets connected to the side of the unit is that the Battery Backup Unit?

Thanks

Paul

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The BT 6500 base unit is a DECT base unit. I said that earlier, but without a link.

Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications (Digital European Cordless Telecommunications), usually known by the acronym DECT, is a standard primarily used for creating cordless phone systems. It originated in Europe, where it is the universal standard, replacing earlier cordless phone standards, such as 900 MHz CT1 and CT2

from the wiki page for DECT.

Thanks, now understand.

Paul

One option you can consider for VOIP is the Gigaset N300IP. This is DECT base station that uses a wired connection to your router. It works best with compatible Gigaset DECT handsets. You can route outgoing calls via cheap suppliers like DiscountVoip

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

One option you can consider for VOIP is the Gigaset N300IP. This is DECT base station that uses a wired connection to your router. It works best with compatible Gigaset DECT handsets. You can route outgoing calls via cheap suppliers like DiscountVoip

Yeah, my younger brother uses VoIP at his flat, not sure what he did to set it all up, but I think he may of set it up on our Rack Server, I think hes using a FRITZ!Box 3390 Modem/Router (I think) on his FTTC Connection.

So I guess I could just connect up to that once our install gets finished.

He also had his BT Phone number from his old line here moved over to it.

But yeah, an option to think about later once its all installed.

Paul

So when they install the fibre they would need install it from the pit/chamber up our pole

Kinda depends what's in the chamber at the bottom of the pole. If there's a fibre DP in there, then that's where it'll be blown from, but it may be elsewhere.

(following copper wire) to the top of our house (just below our gutter) and then tacked down our wall to the external box (couple of feet from ground) and then from the box back up the wall and then through the drilled hole in the wall into our upstairs front room.

The 1st stage install will see either BFT (blown fibre tubing) from the manifold (bottle) at the top of the pole to the CSP (customer splice point) or hybrid, BFT with a single copper pair combined, fitted and then the fibre blown through from the DP to the CSP. A splice at the DP and at the splitter node, and a checker for light loss reading and traffic at the CSP.

If you are in when this is done, it would prove helpful to tell this bod where you want to site the ONTE, this should make the 2nd and final part of the install easier.

The 2nd stage installer will site the ONTE as requested, and run a ruggedised fibre lead in from the CSP to the ONTE, get it fired up and check for the services that have been ordered.

If you order FVA at the same time as the BB through FTTP, the 2nd stage installer has the task of running a copper feed from the ONTE to your existing copper NTE, and will fit an interstitial faceplate allowing the feed to be switched between copper/fibre voice services if required.

Of course if you wanted to run a copper feed for the installer prior to the visit, you'd save money on tea and biscuits later

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So when they install the fibre they would need install it from the pit/chamber up our pole

Kinda depends what's in the chamber at the bottom of the pole. If there's a fibre DP in there, then that's where it'll be blown from, but it may be elsewhere.

Well the last time that I checked was the end of 2011 when they originally started the install, I saw the old Phone cable shield along with a huge black rectangle box where I was told this is where the fibre goes in, he opened it up and you could see loads of plastic wafers and was told the each wafer is for each fibre, at this current time I cannot remember if it was on that metal bar that raises it out of the pit, its been 3.5 years, I know some down the road also waiting for the completion of FTTP does have it on the arm and is mounted on its side.

It looked something like >> this << enclosure, but like I said its been 3.5 years since I saw in out pit/chamber.

So I gather this is the fibre DP, we also have the black bottle up our pole, and our pole supports 20+ lines.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

(following copper wire) to the top of our house (just below our gutter) and then tacked down our wall to the external box (couple of feet from ground) and then from the box back up the wall and then through the drilled hole in the wall into our upstairs front room.

The 1st stage install will see either BFT (blown fibre tubing) from the manifold (bottle) at the top of the pole to the CSP (customer splice point) or hybrid, BFT with a single copper pair combined, fitted and then the fibre blown through from the DP to the CSP. A splice at the DP and at the splitter node, and a checker for light loss reading and traffic at the CSP.

Ok.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If you are in when this is done, it would prove helpful to tell this bod where you want to site the ONTE, this should make the 2nd and final part of the install easier.

Well I am always in, unless I am out for medical appointments due to health reasons, but yeah hopefully I will be in.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The 2nd stage installer will site the ONTE as requested, and run a ruggedised fibre lead in from the CSP to the ONTE, get it fired up and check for the services that have been ordered.

That sounds good to me, hopefully it all goes well.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If you order FVA at the same time as the BB through FTTP, the 2nd stage installer has the task of running a copper feed from the ONTE to your existing copper NTE, and will fit an interstitial faceplate allowing the feed to be switched between copper/fibre voice services if required.

Well this is my parents line which I look after due to them not being technical minded, so I would have to ask them and present the information to them, but I am sure if the line rental is about the same etc I am sure they would want it.

As for the 2nd installer, they would look at the current state of the wiring from the two BT80A junction boxes that the guy installed a year or two ago, just so that he didn't have to rout the hole cable from the BT80A Junction box (in living room by window) to the NTE5a Master Socket in the hall, so good luck to them there.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Of course if you wanted to run a copper feed for the installer prior to the visit, you'd save money on tea and biscuits later

Well I was, well thinking of redoing the whole wiring from the first BT80A Junction Box to the NTE5A Master Socket (which is our own, BT refused to replace it when we had a thunder storm a few years ago which took out the Spark Gap) and from there to all the rooms that need phone lines (i.e. each SkyHD Box)

As for the new face plate I am sure they would give me one of those for me to fit.

However saying that, I think I would prefer them doing all the work, that way its down to them if something goes bang LOL.

Paul

So I gather this is the fibre DP,

It looks likely

we also have the black bottle up our pole,

Which will have 12 ports in it.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So I gather this is the fibre DP,

It looks likely

That's what I thought, there are as far as I know a round version of that also.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

we also have the black bottle up our pole,

Which will have 12 ports in it.

So we would need another bottle installed due to our pole supports about 20 odd houses and some have multiple lines.

Paul

That's what I thought, there are as far as I know a round version of that also.

No the large round hobbies are splitter and aggregation nodes. The one shown in the picture you linked is an earlier style DP node, the later ones are still rectangular, but slimmer.

So we would need another bottle installed due to our pole supports about 20 odd houses and some have multiple lines.

Only if demand calls for it.

I did write a nice long message to send you via PM but sadly you have PM's disabled, so I lost my lovely message LOL, which I don't blame you

Anyway, as you may already know this all never happened.

So we got our local MP involved twice, first time only got BTOR Fibre engineers to work throughout July to replace the fibre between all our FibreDP hardware and also had all the fibres spliced and that was it.

After that I had been in contact with BTOR via email where the "estimated" dates just seem to of just been pushed back month after month and had no joy.

Second time our local MP got involved about a week ago resulted in a more promising outcome, well sort of.

This time they apologised to us for the delay in getting fibre and that this work is nearing complete and that we now have a "projected" date of end of November 2015 when our FTTP will be available.

And to me projected being better than estimated, so this could still be a good thing considering all the fibre infrastructure has all been in place since Oct - Dec 2011.

Like I have already said in other posts I have stalked the BTOR fibre engineers asking for information, where all of them said that all the infrastructure is in place and even a few fibre engineers took a look and confirmed that its all there.

Also we (possibly means our MP) was also told that if we have any more issues to contact BT's Head of parliamentary affairs.

So does a projected date that fibre will be ready to order mean the same as an estimated date and its more to throw off complaints or is it a more correct date that should hopefully happen, i.e. a more reliable realistic date?

Thanks

Paul