FTTC home installation question

So, we have finally got FTTC and I've signed up through my existing ISP! An Openreach engineer has been booked for two weeks times.

I am a little worried because we have (to me) a strange setup in the house and I want to avoid a situation where the engineer sucks his teeth and says xyz have to be done before he can install the FTTC faceplate and modem.

The drop line enters the house through our coal cellar on the ground floor, where it goes into an ancient looking grey plastic junction box. From here it splits into two cables that head off under the floorboards above to various parts of the house. There is one old-style BT socket in a 2nd floor room that I currently run my ADSL modem off. If you unscrew the faceplate it looks like a master socket, but I think it is really an extension. It does not have an engineers test socket as it is really old (probably early to mid-1990s). I don't think it is the actual master socket, as there are no extensions running off it.

Last year I discovered another socket under the floorboards in the eaves on the 1st floor, which I think is the actual master socket. There are extensions running off it and it is closer to the grey box in the coal cellar. This socket looks even more ancient. When we had a TalkTalk engineer around last year to see if he could replace the faceplate, he said he couldn't do that as the modern faceplates wouldn't fit it.

My question is this: How does the FTTC installation work? Will the Openreach engineer fit a new master socket and faceplate in a location of my choice? Or will I have to get another engineer in to rewire the whole setup?

New master socket and a single data extension is included in the cost of the engineer install.

So a new master where the grey junction box is, and a 30m data extension to the location you want the modem maybe.

Or remove the bridge taps at the junction box and install master with faceplate at the current modem location.

In both cases you will be left to sort out or pay for someone to resolve the web of wiring. Though given the range of DECT now lots of extensions are often not needed any more.

It sounds as if you have star wiring from the grey junction box, which needs removing as MrSaffron says, but I thought that was automatic on an engineer install. Re the two sockets you tell us about, they sound like LJ 2/1A and LJ 2/3A as on this page.

With a similar messy layout, when I still had ADSL2+, I had a fault somewhere in the wiring after the wire reached my house but before or in the master. The engineer agreed with me it would be quicker and easier for her, and better for my purposes, for her to run a short wire externally from the house contact point to the far side of an upstairs bedroom, drill through the wall, and install a new modern NTE5/NTE5A. All my extensions were therefore automatically disconnected, which as MrSaffron says rarely matters these days.

I have seen reports of similar changes on these forums by Openreach engineers installing FTTC, as long as the free data extension kit, (Openreach call it a Home Wiring Solution), has been ordered.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 11-Jun-15 10:07:54)

Thanks Mr Saffron and RobertoS. Sounds like I should be OK!

Genuine question to all: What about if craigloon simply ripped out all of his internal telecomms wiring and boxes, and asked the engineer to install FTTC to where he wants it? Assuming he's got a router with a decent wireless signal, won't that be the end of all complications (current and future)?

If my house had telecomms wiring that messy then I'd probably want to start afresh; and this could be the easy opportunity to do so, that's all I'm saying. If all of my assumptions (Oh god, don't say it...) are correct, then the OR engineer won't have anything other than his/her job to do.

Edited by deleted (Sat 13-Jun-15 03:40:07)

Ripping out would break rules as no modern demarkation point but if done would have to be back to first junction box and leave you with no phone line

By rules engineer would fit faceplate at that location and if home wiring solution was ordered an up to 30m data extension

They dont do any other extensions unless you pay more

Which rules does ripping out internal wiring break? I don't doubt you for a second, I just thought it was OK to do whatever you wanted with internal stuff. Unless you're renting and haven't got the landlord's permission, etc.

But still, as you've pointed out, I forgot about the telephone element of things, which was pretty short-sighted of me. It's a moot point, I'm only left wondering about the technicalities/legalities of doing what you want to do with your internal wiring

Edited by deleted (Sun 14-Jun-15 00:26:38)

Everything up to the master socket, whatever kind or age it is, is Openreach stuff.

Given that the OP has star wiring before the master, I'm unsure where he stands wrt the extension wiring.

You are correct in thinking you can do anything (sensible) you want from the faceplate of an NTE5 onwards, but the OP does not have one.

You can also add extensions, within limits, to pre-NTE5 setups. BT used to sell kits to do that. I have a couple, and the instructions on how to do it.

We use to have a similar situation to the OP until we had FTTC installed.

He, after a quick check that no there wasn't a master socket, installed a new one where I asked. Which in my case was in a front porch, splitting the line, and connecting up the cable to rest of the house to the extension side of the NTE5. That suited me as it gave me easy access to the cellar where I could easily tap into the network (because of the house, a Wireless AP lives elsewhere in the house) and it kept the modem and the ISP router out of the way..

Other than checking that a phone worked ok, he left me to worry about whether all the phone worked.

I think technically, a lot of the internal wiring was actually BT's as when we moved in about 10 years ago and took on the phone service I remember we have a breakdown from BT of all the stuff in the house on the phone network that was 'theirs' including some of the extension sockets and a nice big old bell. I think though that they aren't bothered about that anymore.

Although "obvious, you must not do anything on "your" side of the Master Socket, that would endanger the BT Network outside.

As a "daft example", don't feed Mains to it.

I was away abroad when I posted my original question (which I'm glad to say has been kindly answered by MrSaffron and RobertoS), but now that I'm back I thought I would post up some photos of my set up anyway.

Here is the junction box located in the coal cellar (Ground floor) where the black drop line enters the premises. The two white cable are spliced into the black one. One of the white cables may well be redundant, I'm not sure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjk7v2dkhjv102v/IMG_0190.j...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m025b02b5y76cdo/IMG_0191.j...

Here is what I think is the actual master socket, which I found under the floorboards in the eaves (1st floor). It appears to be, as RobertoS guessed, an LJ2/1A:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttqvy8nntchqco8/IMG_0194.j...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf65f81b8597uq1/IMG_0195.j...

And here is the extension (LJ4/1A - masquerading as a master socket?) (2nd floor) that I am currently running my ADSL gear off. The second line is redundant.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnia1de57yy8br4/IMG_0192.j...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aj2l641y2v5m08b/IMG_0193.j...

Hopefully the Openreach engineer booked for next Friday to do the FTTC install can simplify all this. All I want is an FTTC master socket that I can plug the modem/router into as well as run a DECT base station off.

Going by the pics should be easy to bypass the old LJ2/1A ( just crip the wires up ) and make the LJ4/1A you are using into a NTE5 . Ps i am taking that you only use the one point ?

At the moment I'm using the LJ2/1A for the DECT base station, mainly because its more central. The ADSL modem plugs into the LJ4/1A upstairs in my office.

I'm thinking I might ask the Openreach engineer to site the new FTTC modem/router where the LJ2/1A is, again because it is more central and will give me Wifi reach into the garden, where the signal is currently sketchy. Presumably that would require them to install a new FTTC master socket and faceplate to replace the LJ2/1A? If they manage to retain the current configuration, I could then also plug a POTS phone into the LJ4/1A extension upstairs.

Also, I've ordered a new Zyxel VMG8324-B10A modem/router from my ISP for the various business features. Would you advise plugging this into the Openreach supplied modem and using it just as a router, or would I get better results if I used it instead of the supplied modem altogether?

If you do that, the LJ4/1A needs de-mastering or better still replacing with an LJ2/3A.

You can try both configurations you describe and see which gives you the best. Which ISP will you be using? If it's Plusnet you need at least 24 hours to test each setup.

My ISP is Eclipse.

I expect any change in performance would be instant then, but can't guarantee it. The only thing that guarantees instant discovery of a better connection is the line stats from the modem or modem/router.