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deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:04:56

Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gaming)

[link to this post]

Hi All..

This is something that has intrigued me.. how can it be possible that a standard broadband connection provides a superior experience than a fiber connection? I'd like to try and get to the bottom of the reason if possible?

I was experiencing the classic lagging, connection dropping when online with mates with ISP A. Decided to change to a new provider - ISP B. To enable the transfer I had to go back to standard broadband for a brief period when they reactivated/setup the line.
During this period, I had a connection of around 4Mb, and crazily when I tried a game, I was expecting it to be unplayable, but to my surprise it was faultless.. so much better than I had experienced when on fiber from ISP A.

The setup completed and I installed the new router and fiber from ISP B is now active. Online gaming returned to how it used to be with original fiber.

I have gone through everything in the house, wired direct to modem.router, tried various consoles even. I've given up trying. I believe it most likely to be something configured on the line, but I don't know how to read the stats.

Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas on what could cause this? I'll post my current stats below - would really appreciate any analysis of them or any areas that could cause problem and whether there is anything I can do to resolve?

Stats to follow.

Thanks,
Triv

deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:09:12

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

Text

------------------------------------------------------------------------
       |                 |           o             |
      |---  ,---. ,---. |---. ,---. . ,---. ,---. |     ,---. ,---.      |     |---' |     |   | |   | | |     |   | |     |   | |
      `---' `---' `---' `   ' `   ' ` `---' `---' `---' `---' ` 
                  MediaAccess TG589vn v3 
                    10.5.2.F.BN 
                      Copyright (c) 1999-2013, Technicolor 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
{Administrator}=>xdsl info expand=enabledPhysical Layer Statistics:
   Modem state:                                   up
  Up time (Days hh:mm:ss):                       0 days, 10:43:52  xDSL Standard:                                 ITU-T G.993.2 Annex B (VDSL2)
  Channel Mode:                                  Interleaved 
  Number of reset:                               0 
  Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1):                 Local          Remote    Country code:                                B500           B500
    ID:                                          BDCM           BDCM    Specific:                                    0000           A44F
   System Vendor info (showtime):                 Local          Remote
    Country code:                                0F00           0000    ID:                                          TMMB           ----
    Specific:                                    3C61           0000 
  Bearers generic info                           DS             US    Payload rate [kbps]:                         43018          10556
    Attenuation [dB]:                            15.5           6.0    Margins [dB]:                                6.3            6.4
    Output power [dBm]:                          13.1           7.2 
    Number of bearers:                           1    Bearer 0                                     DS             US
      INP [DMT symbols]:                         3.00           0.00      Delay [ms]:                                8.00           0.00
      Depth []:                                  841            0.00      R:                                         12             0
 G.997.1 Statistics (Current):
   Failures:
    Line failures                                Near end      Loss of signal (LOS):                      0
      Loss of frame (LOF):                       0      Loss of power (LPR):                       0
   Performance monitoring:
    Line PM:                                     Near end      Error second (ES):                         7
     Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end
      Bearer 0:        Code Violation (CV):                     18             21
        FEC:                                     167246         84 
    ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end      Bearer 0:
        HEC violation count (HEC):               264            N/A 
G.997.1 Statistics (last 15 minutes): 
  Failures:    Line failures                                Near end
      Loss of signal (LOS):                      0      Loss of frame (LOF):                       0
      Loss of power (LPR):                       0 
  Performance monitoring:    Line PM:                                     Near end
      Error second (ES):                         0 
    Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end      Bearer 0:
        Code Violation (CV):                     18             21        FEC:                                     167246         84
     ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end
      Bearer 0:        HEC violation count (HEC):               264            N/A
 G.997.1 Statistics (last 24 hours):
   Failures:
    Line failures                                Near end      Loss of signal (LOS):                      0
      Loss of frame (LOF):                       0      Loss of power (LPR):                       0
   Performance monitoring:
    Line PM:                                     Near end      Error second (ES):                         7
     Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end
      Bearer 0:        Code Violation (CV):                     18             21
        FEC:                                     167246         84 
    ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end      Bearer 0:
        HEC violation count (HEC):               264            N/A

oglord
(newbie) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:25:40

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

Channel Mode: Interleaved

deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:32:39

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: oglord] [link to this post]

fastpath was always good for gaming. I have 8mbps ADSL and on my games I get pings of 19ms (World Of Warcraft) compared to cable/fiber where it was 30-500

For me that's ample. and I can still do TB's a month if I want to.

Also with everyone on FTTC there will be fewer people on ADSL itself

deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:35:57

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: oglord] [link to this post]

Yes, and quite a high depth? What could cause this and is there anyway to get it adjusted?

mlmclaren
(experienced) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:37:12

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

Yes, I was playing on a very long 2.4mbps ADSL line at Christmas and it was far superior to my short VDSL line that get's 60mbps

Minusnet 21CN 3500/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3
Minusnet Fibre 67000/19999 @ 450m > HG612 > Asus RT-AC87U BQM

deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:38:24

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

Thanks, yes the amount of people probably now on fiber did cross my mind and from what I read dare I say it crosstalk? Perhaps when/if the cabinet ever gets g.inp enabled this will improve?

MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Jun-15 09:42:19

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

As well as the amount of interleaving what are the comparable pings?

Even when FTTC has had lower latency than ADSL2+ (common but not always) some games had very bad lag compensation code that tried to level the playing field, and actually made games worse for those on the best connections.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com
Personal website including useful broadband snippets and maps

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.

deleted
(deleted) Fri 19-Jun-15 10:03:31

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]

Unfortunately at the time I didn't think to record the pings.. at the moment, when pinging bbc.co.uk it's pretty much a constant 28ms.

RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Jun-15 14:01:26

Re: Standard 4Mb Broadband Had Less Latency Than Fiber (Gami

[re: deleted] [link to this post]

The "Delay" figure is a specific addition to latency that the Openreach DLM adds when it turns on interleaving. 8ms is the minimum value it gives.

Your interleaving depth isn't particularly high for an FTTC connection.

It's interesting that it looks like you are on a Huawei cabinet. Most, if not all, of these now have downstream G.INP, which basically replaces interleaving for most lines. If your modem doesn't support G.INP then you need one that does. Your connection speed would also improve considerably.

What is this Technicolor modem you have? I get the feeling it isn't a Plusnet one. Ah! TG589vn v3. Is there a firmware update for it?

Routing from the cabinet also varies on FTTC. Quite a few have the broadband going to a different "headend" exchange from the one the phone goes to. That exchange can have a completely different routing to your ISP, (I think you are on Plusnet), and as such the latency can be several ms different. Even before taking the interleaving 8ms into account.

If you say which exchange and cabinet number you are on, someone will know if this is the case. The fact both ISPs have the same problem on FTTC, but the new one doesn't on ADSL2+ suggests to me it may be.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 58162/14182kbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 19-Jun-15 14:06:35)

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