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Well according to BT, as I am on an unto 40Mbps connection I should only expect to see 20Mbps. (DSL checker suggesting non impacted figures of 27-35, brand new estate and new copper, and since I am only getting around 20-22 then I wanted to get BT to have a look at it)
Apparently .. if you only take the 40Mbps package then BT only allow you 50% of the top speed so in theory I can only get 20Mbps.. hmmmm !!
Anyone experienced this before ?
I feel another complaint coming on..
Regards PGre
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And what are the impacted figures?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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15-28.1Mbps is the impacted .. I didn't expect it to be impacted as its new install, brand new copper etc.
However.. just been on phone to BT who suggested I am on an impacted line. They have said that if I upgrade to the 80Mbps package that they can change it to a non impacted line.. ???
Regards PGre
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Please can we have a paste of the telnet figures from both:-
xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd info --pbParams
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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They have said that if I upgrade to the 80Mbps package that they can change it to a non impacted line.. ??? Tripe. Whoever told you that hasn't a clue.
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Agreed.. but happy at the moment to let them faff around.. and then raise yet another complaint. I really want BT to improve.. but education seems to be at the core of at lease some of their needs.
I'll dig out my line stats later..
Max capable is around 28 though when I looked last line was running at 6db.
Regards PGre
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Impacted - the fact that it is a new install with new copper may not be relevant. Factors such as cross talk from other xDSL circuits, or external noise from a multitude of devices such as fridges, TVs, traffic lights, factories or even radio transmitters can impact on the line. You can control some, however a lot may be outside of your control.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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The other common problem with new properties is any extension sockets installed by the developer's electrician, using alarm cable instead of CW1308 phone cable, split pairs, connecting wiring together with random chock block or even just twisting everything together, ramming wires into IDC connections with a screwdriver instead of correct tool, etc!
If you've got any of that best advice is to disconnect it just leaving the NTE5 master socket on the end of the incoming line. You can use the NTE5 test socket to temporarily disconnect any internal wiring.
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Hi.. Understand but BT obviously know if it's impacted or not..
Does anyone know how this works.
My understanding of impacted lines would be more down to bridge taps etc.
Trying to understand if there is any way of getting a clean line.. Should any exist in the existing network.
I'm guessing everyone around me would be on impacted lines too but just trying to understand it more.
Regards PGre
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"BT only allow you 50% of the top speed"
This has no basis in fact at all, i.e. dealing with support people who either
a) making it up on the basis of a false fact gets most people off the line
OR
b) being trained very badly
There is the 15 Mbps CIR that comes with the up to 40 Mbps product, but that is ONLY a throughput guarantee on part of the network, nothing to do with connection speeds. On the up to 80 Mbps Openreach product this doubles to 30 Mbps, so (b) and a trainer with not much clue may have made some think this was the case.
The CIR is basically a guarantee that Openreach won't run the fibre backhaul hotter than these values. Again nothing to do with connection speed which remains identical no matter if the 40 or 80 Mbps product bought.
Wiring, line length, cross talk and other issues sound most likely, remember also the checker is still only giving an estimate to the DP do there is a variable length of wire to be added to that.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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My understanding is that an impacted line, broadly, is one with issues that could be dealt with by an engineer visit - by which I mean a proper engineer, with decent diagnostic tools such as the JDSU, and the skills to use it.
Things like crosstalk should not be part of the distinction of an "impacted" line. Instead, crosstalk really causes the min/max range in both clean and impacted side. Others believe that impacted lines are ones with higher crosstalk, but I don't believe that, either as actuality or intention.
The real issues are likely to be bridge taps and poor joints (which an engineer ought to be able to solve) and external noise (which he may not). Aluminium in the route generally makes things worse than copper, and seems to be harder to fix.
The reason BT (think they can) get away with using the impacted range for 40/10 packages is because they come as self-install. In fact, the whole split-estimate mechanism was created for the self-install products ... So you should have been quoted estimates from the impacted range when you ordered the self-install product.
The 80/20 packages come as engineer-install ... and the main job for him to do is to make sure the line works well enough to class as "clean". It doesn't always come out that way, though ... especially if a subcontractor turns up rather than a BT employee (though, in my actual experience, the Kelly's guys have been as switched-on as the Openreach guys). When you choose an engineer-install product, they are then free to quote estimates from the clean range.
Further, I can add that the speeds quoted at the top and bottom of the range represent the 20th and 80th percentiles of similar lines. That means 20% of similar lines go faster than the range, and 20% go slower. BT will accept requests to send an engineer for, IIRC, the bottom 10%.
So, from your current position, you can either stay on a 40/10 product, and pay for an engineer. Or switch to an 80/20 product, which may qualify for an engineer foc.
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That was my understanding ie that I was being told rubbish basically.
I was out thought to sales in the end who rightly said ehhh? What will upgrading to 80 do for you your line is only capable of 35.
Anyway I'm putting it down as you have suggested to bad training but it's left me in the knowledge that BT have me on an impacted line. This was an engineer install BT Business.
So should they not investigated this on install ?
Regards PGre
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As per other reply to Mr S. This is BT Business install and had engineer visit.
Do you think it's worth asking for an engineer ? The usual BT argument is that if no fault is found then I'd have to pay but id guess an impacted line isn't classed as a fault persay?
Regards PGre
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What are your line stats when plugged straight into test socket?
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There is no concept of having you on an impacted line.
The line is what the line is, you may be seeing the absolute maximum possible speeds from the line due to various reasons, such as their estimate is maybe 50 to 100m wrong the paper based estimates are not written in stone at all.
On install if an engineer based install they will usually test the line and get information from their own test kit and show if it falls within a reasonable range of speeds.
Essentially VDSL is ShortWave/FM radio squeezed down a copper pair and things that can make FM noisy or cause radio hams grief will cause you grief too.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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All depends on what they find out is causing the slower speeds and no guarantee that even if they spend two days solidly that things will get better, there is a chance things might get worse as they fiddle and affect joints.
Does the BT device you have on the line actually let you see the connection speeds, as presume the 20-22 is a speed test result and how far are you actually from the cabinet which is the largest determining factor, have had to feed back to Openreach checker results which suggest 76 Mbps when person knows cabinet is 800m or more away, i.e. they have errors in their data.
Edited by MrSaffron (Wed 19-Aug-15 14:54:57)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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However.. just been on phone to BT who suggested I am on an impacted line. They have said that if I upgrade to the 80Mbps package that they can change it to a non impacted line.. ???
Just in case you wasn't aware, an Impacted Line is "suppose" to be a line which has not had an engineer install or activate!
and as you have confirmed your connection was not a self install, they are talking *****, also would suggest reporting that mis-selling to a watchdog... preferably Ofcom, I don't think ASA has any grounds on in house sales!
I do say though, this has now pushed BT very far donw my list of potential providers.
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I think the shortage of bandwidth is not really the issue here, its the way BT representatives are trying to dismiss any sort of fault investigations using wildly inaccurate "facts"
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so you are fortunate in your devclopment being connected to an enabled commercial cab that give you uplift !!!! you be surprised how many are brand new copper cabs where cab is not enabled or the cab the development is connected is too far away to get uplift
if only 28 the line will only support an upto 40 m/bps product
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Please supply the stats I requested earlier. (Using the Test Socket + dangly filter as suggested by vimto_girl).
Plus a copy and paste of the Further Diagnostic text boxes from the BT Wholesale Performance Test.
Plus the Direct Link to a thinkbroadband speed test result showing the graph.
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Edited by RobertoS (Wed 19-Aug-15 18:26:13)
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Being a business line changes things a little, because I'm not sure about the use of self-install products there.
What speed estimate were you given when you ordered? How did BT Business phrase it exactly? And what did the BTW estimation tool say at the time? For both ranges? And the same for what the tool tells you now? The answer to all those will guide the advice for dealing with BT going forward.
Answering the other questions about statistics will help guide the advice over what you ought to be able to get out of the line.
As you have already had an engineer, the same answers will help guide advice as to whether a new engineer can help. But, for now, did he plug any tool into your line to check quality? A handheld box with a screen?
It does sound strange for BT support to fob you off as an "impacted" line for an engineer installation. Do you get any different support from residential products?
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I think the shortage of bandwidth is not really the issue here, its the way BT representatives are trying to dismiss any sort of fault investigations using wildly inaccurate "facts"
Agreed
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For some reason the TN interface is playing up..
Attainable rate (kbit/s) 27148 1265
SNR margin (dB) 5.7 6.7
Line attenuation (dB) 28 0
Output power (dBmV) 11.1 10.5
So stats shown from web interface on the HG612
Now somethings going on as I can normally get 5Mbps up... so I'll power cycle the HG612 and it normally then retrains to around 6Mbps attainable. I'll post afterwards.
Path 0
Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Line rate (kbit/s) 24836 1261 0 0
CRC errors 3893 0 0 0
FEC errors 110 0 0 0
HEC errors 840 0 0 0
Regards PGre
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Well.. long story on the install.. since BT messed up majorly.
Had to wait 2 months for a line to get installed.
Eventually estimates for the line were 27-35 Non impacted and 15-21 for impacted line.
On the install he did use a JDSU to check it was all syncing ok.. but he was in an out in a few mins. Another engineer had previously put in the Mk3 faceplate when the phone line was installed.
I only have Business service so can't compare on your last point.. but it wasn't self install.
Regards PGre
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Also agreed.. I know I am on a long line.. sure.. I know the limitations around FTTC and how VDSL works etc.
I have been in the IT world for nearly 20 years and most of those around tech support services.. but to be just fobbed off with inaccurate information and to be so adamant about it.. thats whats shocked me.
I have the transcript which I'll be using of course in the complaint..
What I'd like to know is.. have I got a problem with the line... ? (Somethings going on as my upload speed seems to get stuck around 2Mbps where as for first month I have been getting 5 at least)
Why is it impacted and is there something BT can do about it.. ?
Regards PGre
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In what way is the telnet interface playing up?
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Not sure I understand what you mean by uplift... but I wouldn't be surprised to be honest.. This is my 8th new build in the last 15 years. I remember the days of the green slug or what ever its called when ADSL first came out and was told I was too far from the exchange.. (despite BT telling me I'd get it no problem). But I don't move to an area unless I stand a very high chance of getting FTTC or VM now.. since I can't work without it.
New builds can get FTTC/FTTP if the developer is keen to help.
There are multiple developments round here which have FTTP and VM for new builds as the developer is paying BT for the privilage. On my estate only 100m away there are a bunch of houses with FTTP but our bit they decided to tag it onto on existing PCP over a kilometre away.
So.. sure I understand there are a fair few people that can't get even 22Mbps and I really do feel for them.. but thats the reason I do a lot of research before I move somewhere.
Regards PGre
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As in my fat fingers put in the wrong IP address.. doh !
Full stats below.
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 1265 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26892 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1261 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24836 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.6 6.7
Attn(dB): 28.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.1 10.5
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 22 26
B: 51 31
M: 1 1
T: 64 58
R: 12 0
S: 0.0666 0.7950
L: 7688 322
D: 487 1
I: 64 32
N: 64 32
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 7823080 1448537
OHFErr: 116 0
RS: 2002649207 909050
RSCorr: 317134 0
RSUnCorr: 3910 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 845 0
OCD: 43 0
LCD: 43 0
Total Cells: 1598105046 0
Data Cells: 52851882 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 65 2
SES: 11 0
UAS: 53 42
AS: 33475
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 4.27 11.57
OR: 52.35 22.12
AgR: 24888.77 1282.98
Bitswap: 26286/26286 0/0
# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 1265 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26888 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1261 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24836 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 1265 kbps 26888 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 10.5 dBm 11.1 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 10.1 N/A N/A N/A N/A 22.9 61.6 89.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 10.1 N/A N/A N/A N/A 25.9 61.3 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A 5.6 5.6 N/A
TX Power(dBm): 10.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A 8.3 7.9 N/A
Haven't even digested them myself yet..
Regards PGre
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As you can see from the medley phase you're only getting one upstream band and two downstream bands.
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Aug-15 19:58:33)
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Stats after power cycle, back up to 5.5 attainable on the up.
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 5503 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26536 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5518 Kbps, Downstream rate = 23492 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.2 6.1
Attn(dB): 28.1 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.1 6.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 22 26
B: 51 159
M: 1 1
T: 64 41
R: 12 12
S: 0.0704 0.9198
L: 7272 1496
D: 459 1
I: 64 86
N: 64 172
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 33820 16239
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 8601896 665548
RSCorr: 687 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 6899029 0
Data Cells: 9758 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 21 21
AS: 153
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 4.52 9.46
OR: 49.51 27.04
AgR: 23542.03 5544.85
Bitswap: 97/98 1/1
# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 5503 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26536 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5518 Kbps, Downstream rate = 23492 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1190)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 5503 kbps 26536 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.3 dBm 11.1 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 10.1 50.9 N/A N/A N/A 22.9 61.7 89.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 10.1 50.1 N/A N/A N/A 25.9 61.3 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.5 6.1 N/A N/A N/A 6.2 6.1 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -2.8 5.8 N/A N/A N/A 8.4 7.8 N/A
Regards PGre
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Now you have two upstream bands.
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Yes I know I can see that thanks.
The question is why did I only have one before.
Regards PGre
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I see you're on a Huawei cabinet, but you don't have G.INP active.
I think you should upgrade the modem firmware to G030SP08 as G.INP should benefit you.
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This is SP08 firmware.. B030SP08
Regards PGre
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I know you think you finally got it to work, but did you check? You can see it in the GUI Status >> Device and both lines should be Software version V100R001C01B030SP08
Firmware version A2pv6C038m.d24j
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Are you sure? You can tell by looking in the Status > Device page on the HG612 web GUI.
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Aug-15 20:21:01)
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Yes.. I am sure.. and yes eventually managed to flash the firmware.
I just pasted version in from the GUI See below
Product type EchoLife HG612
Hardware version VER.B
Software version V100R001C01B030SP08
Firmware version A2pv6C038m.d24j
So matches the below... G.INP I guess hasn't been enabled here yet.
Regards PGre
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Have you been running with the HG612, or the Business Hub?
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Business Hub for first 2 weeks then switched to HG612.
Both very similar in terms of speeds, just hub would randomly reboot.
Regards PGre
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I notice the interleaving has had a bit of fine tuning. Lower depth and larger matrix. That sounds odd to me as well.
Also no significant sync change from the extra frequencies.
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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I have noticed that the US speed drops to around 2Mbps randomly at least twice in the last two days.. but a re-sync then resolves the issue.. so not sure whats going on.
Open to all ideas at this point.. but I am hoping at some point I can find someone in BT Support who can help me understand why the line would be impacted.
Regards PGre
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One of the users on here with a pretty bad line, Bald_Eagle1, has attenuation of 25dB and speeds of 22/5. Over on MyDslWebStats, users with attenuation of around 27 dB are getting speeds between 22Mb and 33Mb.
In that context, your current speed isn't markedly brilliant or dire.
The upstream drop you just saw is worrying, though. That kinda suggests some intermittent noise is happening, especially as the SNRM stayed around 6dB. However, the change in power will have played a part too.
All this probably plays into the next thing... which is to use some of the monitoring tools, and graph the data coming out of the hg612. The Hlog graph can show up copper problems, as can snr/tone graphs.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/board,46.0.html
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I'll look into some monitoring then to see if this shows anything more.
Still interested to see why BT think it's impacted though.
Regards PGre
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You were talking to a goon!
Or more politely, someone with zilch technical training but knows where the switches are and what connects to what. Not trained in the aspects affecting you.
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Edited by RobertoS (Wed 19-Aug-15 22:24:43)
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The sets of stats you posted today, are they from the test socket?
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Yep.. master socket.
Its same as when i have the Mk3 faceplate on.
No other wires are connected.
Regards PGre
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I take that as a 'no'? Even without extension wires, I have seen one or two cases where the VDSL plate fitting (and the NTE5 front plate, as the two usually secure as a whole) has introduced resistance and line errors.
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? No.. its a yes..
i.e. they are from the Test Socket (or I called it the Master socket, in my reply).
Regards PGre
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Ah, OK, I misunderstood sorry because usually we mean something else by master socket and test socket and I thought you were differentiating.
If as you say your line is resyncing by itself twice in two days with this loss of upstream, then I personally would get hold of another HG612 and cable (these are good to show if and when Openreach come a knocking and to point out when discussing with the ISP) and as others have said run stats monitoring with it.
If the problem persists, then your ISP should run line tests and send an engineer. The down speed is not a clear fault in my opinion but may improve when the issue is fixed.
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I have the feeling it was an engineer install with no OR modem. He bought the HG612 to use instead of his Business Hub.
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Aug-15 00:27:43)
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Yes thats correct... HG612 was just so I didn't have the hub.. as the HG612 is mounted to the wall and sits nicely out of the way.
Regards PGre
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Right. (Not sure the relevance of that?)
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It was because I thought your reference to being able to show an engineer a second HG612 was so he could demonstrate it wasn't a faulty modem.
But he already has a second modem, in the BT Hub, which would serve the same purpose.
That was all .
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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I see. That was a bonus reason - I mainly suggested a second HG612 so he could keep his preferred setup and begin stats monitoring while also eliminating the 1st modem as a problem - can't do all of that with the Hub.
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[puzzled]
He could run the stats monitoring on it as it is. Why would he need a second one for that?
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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As I said: "so he could keep his preferred setup and begin stats monitoring while also eliminating the 1st modem as a problem".
Without a 2nd HG612 he would have to change to the Hub setup he didn't want in order to eliminate the modem as a problem. He wouldn't get detailed stats monitoring in that time either, so he would have to do that separately with the HG612 wasting time.
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Wasting time indeed.
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I have tried with the HH5 and get the same issue... So don't think it's the HG612.
But I'll see if I can set up some stats monitoring next week.
Regards PGre
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