Fibre for new build estate

Hi,

Please forgive the general question, but does anyone have any pointers for finding out if a new build estate will be fibre enabled?

I've asked one of the builders (RedRow) and they haven't been hugely helpful, only saying that they "believe" the estate will be fibre enabled.
The estate in question is here: https://www.redrow.co.uk/developments/coate-at-badbu...
The postcode stated on that page is wrong, the estate is actually being built at: SN3 6AA

A couple of landmarks from around this location are:
The Sun Inn: SN3 6AA - 01793 523292
The Spotted Cow: SN3 6AA - 01793 485832

Both of these postcodes + numbers say that fibre is enabled.
Any idea how I can find more information please? Should RedRow have someone who deals with this?

Thanks in advance,

Zebs

Looks like FTTP is planned, so be prepared for a long wait gtting it.

Interesting!
How'd you find that information, please?

Don't ask

Does it involve men in suits meeting in a park and picking up the wrong briefcase?
8=}

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Sep-15 10:24:09)

Just about!

However, the process woul be hugely facilitated and quicker if the builder has installed underground ducting to each house, and a number of underground chambers depending on the size of the estate.

If they have, there should be a small pipe up against the wall for a short distance, possibly with a draw cord of some sort.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 14-Sep-15 10:17:24)

I can certainly ask Redrow, thanks.

Any info on FTTC on that estate, please?
Certainly 20-30 Mbps would be fine for me, just don't want to have to drop down to ~2 Mbps.
The estate is a fair distance from the exchange.

Any info on FTTC on that estate, please?

See Ribble's earlier reply. No FTTC but instead FTTP in due course.

Ah it's starting to dawn on me that there will be no FTTC as a stopgap until FTTP ?
Is that always the case?

So long wait equates to... years ?

FTTP is Fibre To the Premises. Fibre all the way, and you get the connection speed you sign up to. So 80/20 means just that! 300/30 is the current maximum, but I'm not sure anyone sells that.

Whether on 80/20 you get the full throughput is still an "up to" I'm afraid, but that applies to any connection and also depends on the ISP.

In reply to a post by Zebsy:

So long wait equates to... years ?

That's why I raised the point about the ducting. Once the roads/pavements/drives are all in place it becomes a lot more expensive and time-consuming than the builder putting it in at the same time as his digging machinery is around for the foundations.

It's a lot easier for Openreach to install the wiring if that's all they have to do. Rather than get contractors in to do the digging and reinstatement.

See the Developer's Handbook.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 14-Sep-15 11:23:41)

Will such a new-build incorporate the "traditional" copper and PCPs etc, from scratch; or could there be related delays?

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Sep-15 11:57:46)

New build generally still get the copper for PSTN and LLU ADSL2+ services.

So no more delay than usual down to the provider order systems not understanding postcodes etc

At the development that I'm moving to in Brackley they are only putting in fibre, no copper.

wont be FTTP unless thet have signed a contract fro it
if the area was done as FTTP no guarantee that the dp's on the development would be covered

so this one might not be as it might first seem

On the new estate I am living on FTTP has been a comedy of errors, the first people moving into phases where FTTP is planned were without phones or broadband for 7 months - I am not sure who was worse the builders or Openreach. The estate didn't originally even have FTTC for any properties and just slow ADSL - it was 18 months after I moved in that became available (and it took a lot of pressure on builders), but at least had some broadband,

I'd want something more concrete that "they think"

If the developers only think there will be fibre, look for somewhere else!

Crikey, reading your sig it sounds like a serious issue with new builds.
I will ask Redrow for some more firm information about broadband.
Not sure about Virgin media too.

Ribble has already said what you can expect, the problem being that you're going to have to wait just as very many others are also having to wait, even those who aren't moving in to a new home.

In reply to a post by Zebsy:

Crikey, reading your sig it sounds like a serious issue with new builds.
I will ask Redrow for some more firm information about broadband.
Not sure about Virgin media too.

Yeah, the rumour is the developers only ordered voice services from BT, hence my CAB is half a mile away. Rather than a new cab on the estate itself...

Virgin media are interested but can't dig up the pavement yet as the road ownership still needs sorting, the developers left the site several years ago.

very little restrospective FTTP build on new estates -if any -

would be very surprised if homes occupied to see FTTP comes as there are only a few developers deploying FTTP I would give a massive health warning as higlhly likely it will be copper only -- based on my experience

In reply to a post by MCM:

Ribble has already said what you can expect, the problem being that you're going to have to wait just as very many others are also having to wait, even those who aren't moving in to a new home.

Agreed, like us waiting for our FTTP to be finished off, will be 4 years next month.
But at least we have some broadband even though it slow, but better than nothing I guess.

But I have been it will be done, just no due date LOL.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zebsy:

Does it involve men in suits meeting in a park and picking up the wrong briefcase?
8=}

To revise my earlier confirmation of that, it wasn't completely accurate.

Ribble is the only man in the park, and has the right briefcase . (Actually there are a couple around that often know about some places, but they only seem to have photocopies of some pages from it ).

Openreach have been known however to change their mind about FTTP, and substitute FTTC. They are also experimenting with other fibre-based technologies elsewhere. I've a feeling the briefcase only contains the current intention.

Thanks for all the replies.
FTTC would be fine for me.

The house we're looking at is on a "phase 2" part so people are already living in the estate now. We'd be buying now and moving in 6 months later.
So there is demand for bb / fibre now and another 6 months for them to put something better in!
Not helpful if it'll take years though!

I will ask Redrow for some more details
e.g. what have the phase 1 people got now and do they have a date for fibre availability?

If possible, speak to some of the Phase 1 people directly; and also be aware of the confusion that the majority have, including the Builder's Sales Team team, as to what variety of BB they have/expect.

It might also be of use to enquire in any local computer shop etc.

In reply to a post by Zebsy:

Thanks for all the replies.
FTTC would be fine for me.

The general principle that BT have followed, thus far, is that a cabinet area gets one thing or the other - FTTP only, or FTTC only.

The only likely exceptions are when they have BDUK commitments to meet (so we are seeing extra FTTP in Surrey, but not likely to see anywhere else for a while), or where a new-build developer organises FTTP deliberately.

Make note of that word: "deliberately".

If FTTP has been deliberately organised (it may be Openreach, but it may be a quasi-Sky lock-in), the developer will *know* and will market it deliberately.

If the sales office don't know, it likely hasn't been organised deliberately.

But ...

Ribble indicates that FTTP is due, which suggests something *has* been organised, but perhaps not well enough.

BT's standard prioritisation for FTTP, as PaulKirby mentioned, can mean that installation could be a long way off. Once you have FTTP, it will undoubtedly beat the pants off any FTTC or ADSL variant ... but beware the potential for waiting.

The house we're looking at is on a "phase 2" part so people are already living in the estate now. We'd be buying now and moving in 6 months later.

Then go talk to these people, and find out what their experiences are: both for broadband, and what the builder is like in general.

RobertoS mentioned this, and I cannot emphasise it enough.

We hear enough stories on here about people on new-build developments who are having a broadband nightmare. Sometimes this is because of a failure to provision ... until the developer is goaded into action a couple of years on. Sometimes it is because nothing can happen until the roads are adopted by the council, which may be 5 years after the estate is finished. Sometimes it is because of a lock-in to an unknown provider; contract provisions may bar satellite dishes, and force connectivity (including Sky) through fibre ... and no Openreach alternative until the roads are adopted.

Take heed: Don't part with any money, as any form of deposit, until you are clear what the plans are, and your solicitor can make it a condition of the contract.

(On our last new-build, the solicitor added a clause witholding £500 until the roads were adopted. The builder didn't like that...)

So there is demand for bb / fibre now and another 6 months for them to put something better in!

Unfortunately, there is demand *everywhere*. You aren't on a commercial list, and you won't be part of a BDUK list, so you'll be right at the bottom of any list whatsoever ... unless the developer has made provision (ie paid for it).

And everything you have said suggests that Redrow have not made provision.

Personally, I'd walk away.

I will ask Redrow for some more details
e.g. what have the phase 1 people got now and do they have a date for fibre availability?

My experience of buying a new-build (it wasn't Redrow directly, but they did build half of the homes on the estate)...

- They will tell you almost anything to get you to part with money, and make a commitment
- They gradually play more hardball as you get more committed
- They will push hard to make things happen fast, to get you (a) to contract exchange, and then (b) moved in
- And then everything drops to a snail's pace.
- Sorting out snags happens quickly if it prevents completion, but otherwise takes weeks

This was all pre-broadband.

Nowadays, with huge requirements for internet access from day 1, I wouldn't touch a new-build unless the developer had
a) plainly taken it seriously
b) had it organised to be live on moving in
c) were willing to commit to that in the contract

I'm not sure I could find a developer who would do any one of those steps, let alone all three.

If you are happy to go ahead, you might want to check for 4G coverage as a backup.

the biggest problem with new build is if that is a new development and it is large enough it is likely to have its own cab which if the developer only asked for voice the postcode checker will be confused as it will not know the postcode for the new development so if a new green box at entrance to development then development will be copper only as it will not have been covered , and it will give you a view on the road outside the development rather than the deveiopment itself

what is the development

Thanks again for the replies, lots of good advice there.

The development is in the first post, it's "Redrow Coate at Badbury Park" near to The Sun Inn: SN3 6AA - 01793 523292

I have asked Redrow for more information and they are going to ask their technical department, and the site manager, for more info.
Apparently the infrastructure has been put in and BT need to do their bit.
I was slightly wrong in that there is noone living there as yet in a Redrow house, not sure when first completions are.

4G is good advice, I've used Three before and the coverage is good, with a mast about 0.5 miles away.

As you say, Redrow seem very unlikely to commit to anything in the contract as they want to take the position that it's BT's job to now wire the houses up.

In reply to a post by Zebsy:

As you say, Redrow seem very unlikely to commit to anything in the contract as they want to take the position that it's BT's job to now wire the houses up.

It is strange, isn't it?

Everyone accepts that you cannot move in if electricity, gas, water and sewage aren't connected and working. But are entirely willing to wash their hands of communications and television, while brushing road connections under the carpet.

But there must be people living in the Phase 1 houses if you're looking at a Phase 2? You should be able to tell if the Phase 1s have copper or fibre to them. If they're copper you will see a grey square shaped box at the top of a grey cable sheild. If they have FTTP you'll see a larger rectangular white or brown box with a black cable feeding in one end a white one coming out of the other end.

Surely Phase 2 will just get exactly what Phase 1 has. That's usually what happens as they just extend the network to Phase 2.

Edited by deleted (Thu 17-Sep-15 18:00:22)