I get 5Mbps ADSL, next door gets 330Mbps!

Hi,

I'm currently am on ADSL with a max 5mb down .2 up because my local cabinet at Kidbrooke PCP 2 seems like it's never gonna be upgraded. But, while I wait, a new housing development has been built next to me with what I think is Fibre to the Home.

I went to the open day and looked under the stairs of the show house.
Here's a pic of what i saw.

If that's what I think it is, then 20m from my house they get 330Mbps and I get 5. That's one hell of a digital divide!

I've asked BT to run fibre to me but hey don't want to know. I can't even get FTTC!!

Can anyone find out the latest upgrade information for my cabinet?

Will be dependent on the amount of commercial expansion in the area, as London Boroughs were not part of the phase 1 and phase 2 gap funding projects.

What is the postcode for the show home?

Their phone lines will probably be on a different cabinet than yours.
Cabinet 2 is down as part of the LEP Phase, not too sure what LEP is.

What's the post code and door number of the home that can get FTTP?

Paul

London Extension Programme, i.e. the recent commercial amounts announced for various parts of London.

Yeah that is definitely Openreach FTTP in your picture.

You'll get at least FTTC in the next couple of years, they'll have to for you to meet the new 10Mb minimum.

To confirm your suspicions, that is deffo FTTP.

if that is a "show home" why does the wiring look like a birds nest, you think the installer would have at least made some sort of effort to tidy it up

The development is called "The Brackens"

The address of the show home should be:

1 Hill View Drive
Welling
Kent
DA16 3RS

The weird thing is I don't see any new cabinet anywhere, not for FTTC or FTTH!

Thanks for any information

Edited by jacko0 (Sun 15-Nov-15 17:05:41)

There are no cabinets for openreach FTTP.

So, it's just one long run of fibre from the exchange to the house under the street?

Sort of, it is split and sub split but this is all done passively in pavement chambers usually.

That address has FTTC and not FTTP, and they are connected to cabinet 4 located here (according to BT Openreache's Site):
[Cabinet 4]
https://goo.gl/maps/j4KZjaUxyYp

Saying that Google maps is a bit behind on upgrading their maps for that area.

*** update ***
Hmm, this might be either fibre cabinet 2 or 4, my guesses its 4:
https://goo.gl/maps/R52RmsgZCww
*** -------- ***

Cabinet 2 is suppose to be located some place here: https://goo.gl/maps/ZqBpDQGSYot

But like above Google Maps hasn't been there as late so I cannot see any fibre cabinet, but according to BT Openreach's site its there.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sun 15-Nov-15 19:04:29)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

London Extension Programme, i.e. the recent commercial amounts announced for various parts of London.

Ah yes, we now seem to have a cabinet and a block of EO lines that are down as that.

Strange our cabinet which is "projected to be ready to order FTTP end of November 2015" (their exact words) yet still says "Fibre Not Available", what's the bet that cabinet 32 which is down as "Phase LEP PLUS" and the Exchange block as "Phase LEP" on our exchange gets done before ours

Paul

In reply to a post by jacko0:

If that's what I think it is, then 20m from my house they get 330Mbps and I get 5. That's one hell of a digital divide!

Sneak an ethernet connection in under cover of darkness ?

In reply to a post by threelegs:

if that is a "show home" why does the wiring look like a birds nest, you think the installer would have at least made some sort of effort to tidy it up

Lmao, that is pretty tidy compared to what some people already and will get from their installations...

Paul did you put in the address of the show home? Regardless of what the checker says for the show home though that is definitely a native Openreach FTTP setup.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Paul did you put in the address of the show home? Regardless of what the checker says for the show home though that is definitely a native Openreach FTTP setup.

See that's then where I got confused, looking at the setup / hardware it looks FTTP, however BTWholesale as well as the BT Openreach Where and when page both say FTTC, so something isn't right.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 16-Nov-15 09:02:51)

Do an ADDRESS check for DA16 3RS and scroll down to 22 & 24 Hill View Drive. They both have 330 Mbps FTTP available.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Do an ADDRESS check for DA16 3RS and scroll down to 22 & 24 Hill View Drive. They both have 330 Mbps FTTP available.

Yes, that's because homes 20 to 22 are EO Lines, the rest are connected to cabinet 4 which are down as FTTC.

Paul

Given the original image and the address doe it not point to a data base error. The hardware is clearly FTTP at that address.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

You'll get at least FTTC in the next couple of years, they'll have to for you to meet the new 10Mb minimum.

The proposal is for 10Mb/s by 2020 - so up to 5 years. And it is possible it could be delivered via mobile, wireless or satellite - so FTTC is definitely not guaranteed.

Maybe not, depends on how recent the kit was installed and whether its the first for a number of new postcodes that are not in the checker yet.

Knowing the address for me was as much about spotting what might be the new postcodes appearing in the area

In reply to a post by MHC:

Given the original image and the address doe it not point to a data base error. The hardware is clearly FTTP at that address.

Maybe, but like I said hardware says FTTP, yet both BT Wholesale and BT Openreach where and when say FTTC at all addresses apart from 20 to 22 which are FTTP.
Also like I said the few that are down as FTTP are EO Lines according to both checkers.

That's why I am confused here.

Either way if all are FTTP (not too sure at this point) nobody on that postcode will be able to order FTTP apart from homes 20 to 22.

So if a database error, then this would need to be resolved.

Also codelook also says that postcode DA16 3RS is on cabinet 4.

DA16 3RS Hill View Drive Kidbrooke, London 2,480m ADSL ADSL2+ FTTC Available P4 100%

So that's now 3 sites that say cabinet 4

Paul

I think I now understand what the situation is.

Use Streetview on GoogleMaps and 1 to 21 are old houses. The new estate is not shown on the satellite view or Streetview. It has to be assumed that the new build properties the OP is referring to are to be numbered from 22 upwards and NOT 1 which the OP suggests.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I think I now understand what the situation is.

Use Streetview on GoogleMaps and 1 to 21 are old houses. The new estate is not shown on the satellite view or Streetview. It has to be assumed that the new build properties the OP is referring to are to be numbered from 22 upwards and NOT 1 which the OP suggests.

Yeah, that makes sense, TBH I never looked at the homes, I was more looking for the cabinets in that area and I found 2 (I think) and 4, and cabinet 4 being for the lower old homes.

Just looked on Google Maps, seems that Google Maps hasn't been down that road since June 2012 and not been down that new section yet.

Either way those few homes 20 to 22 that are down as FTTP still cannot order it yet due to they are down as "Exploring Solutions" according to BT Openreach.
Maybe that's due to then not fully completed yet, hard to see via Google Maps.

*** update ***
Seems that home 21 must outside the new build due to that's can only get FTTC and is also on cabinet 4.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 16-Nov-15 10:25:24)

They won't get FTTC on cab 2 . Tried it, no suitable location. Not going to happen

if you can get FTTC its extremely unlikely BT/Openreach will offer FTTP due to cost, if they can serve you with FTTC why would they offer fiber, if you can't get FTTC (EO line) likey they may offer FTTP in next 0-5 years depending on your area

In reply to a post by leexgx:

if you can get FTTC its extremely unlikely BT/Openreach will offer FTTP due to cost, if they can serve you with FTTC why would they offer fiber, if you can't get FTTC (EO line) likey they may offer FTTP in next 0-5 years depending on your area

Its all down to what the developer of the new build wants to pay to get installed, I am also assuming that where there is no other broadband type for those 3 homes that there is no copper there.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

That address has FTTC and not FTTP, and they are connected to cabinet 4 located here (according to BT Openreache's Site):
[Cabinet 4]
https://goo.gl/maps/j4KZjaUxyYp

Saying that Google maps is a bit behind on upgrading their maps for that area.

*** update ***
Hmm, this might be either fibre cabinet 2 or 4, my guesses its 4:
https://goo.gl/maps/R52RmsgZCww
*** -------- ***

Cabinet 2 is suppose to be located some place here: https://goo.gl/maps/ZqBpDQGSYot

But like above Google Maps hasn't been there as late so I cannot see any fibre cabinet, but according to BT Openreach's site its there.

Paul

That deffo not Cab 2, this is Cab 2, the one that needs upgrading!

http://wellingfibre.co.uk/the-cabinet-location/

I might be wrong with the house number, it's actually built on the site of the old council offices.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4672608,0.0871784,...


Welling
Kent
DA16 3RS

Edited by jacko0 (Mon 16-Nov-15 10:58:07)

In reply to a post by jacko0:

I might be wrong with the house number, it's actually built on the site of the old council offices.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4672608,0.0871784,...


Welling
Kent
DA16 3RS

You may well be wrong ... it could be "Plot 1" on te development which would translate to a number higher than the last houses currently in the road.

On the even-numbered side of the road?

In reply to a post by jacko0:

That deffo not Cab 2, this is Cab 2, the one that needs upgrading!

http://wellingfibre.co.uk/the-cabinet-location/

That's only 48m to the right from where I said, I was referring to the Fibre Cabinet that BT Openreach Where and when page states the DSLAM to be located.
Granted we see no fibre cabinet however BTOR says its there or will be there once done.

*** update ***
BT Openreach says the following for "Street Side Dslam Cabinet Nmal, Bellegrove Road, Welling, DA16 3RT":

"address":"Street Side Dslam Cabinet Nmal, Bellegrove Road, Welling, DA16 3RT"
"lat":"51.465621",
"lng":"0.08979199999998855",
"message":"enabledarea",
"icon":"ea",
"icon_content":"Your area is enabled for Superfast Fibre but your cabinet is not ready yet so you can't place an order today. It is in our plans to be upgraded and we update this info weekly, so please check back later."

And says the following for the cabinet info:

"number":"2",
"status":"enabledarea",
"message":"",
"dueby":"",
"status_eng":"Enabled area"

I.e. the fibre cabinet is either already there or is planed to be placed near there.

My guesses are that BT Openreach are still working they can or cannot upgrade that cabinet, but the database has the information already there.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 16-Nov-15 12:05:02)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

On the even-numbered side of the road?

All I know is the last 3 even numbers (20, 22 and 24) can get FTTP and are EO Lines (no copper), the rest can only get FTTC.

So Plot 1, 2 and 3 are really 20, 22 and 24.

Paul

I think

In reply to a post by Ribble:

They won't get FTTC on cab 2 . Tried it, no suitable location. Not going to happen

is probably the most up-to-date of all the sources quoted so far.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think

In reply to a post by Ribble:

They won't get FTTC on cab 2 . Tried it, no suitable location. Not going to happen

is probably the most up-to-date of all the sources quoted so far.

This is probably true, I am only going by BT Openreach's database, which may of been added a while back and since then decided on not completing it at the moment.
But I think its silly BTOR saying there is no suitable location, there are loads of walls it could go in front of.

Maybe the residents in that area didn't want to see the taller fibre cabinet by their wall.

Paul

It is not just the wall, but the services in the pavement, i.e. needs the plinth to not be on top of gas/power/water etc

I understand things, and as I've not got any new postcodes in the area yet there is no panic. Generally until postcodes are issued and given their geo-location there is not much that can be done.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is not just the wall, but the services in the pavement, i.e. needs the plinth to not be on top of gas/power/water etc

Ok, fair enough.

I just thought where there is already a PCP Cabinet by the wall they could of put the Fibre one right next to it, maybe not in this case.

Paul

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I understand things, and as I've not got any new postcodes in the area yet there is no panic. Generally until postcodes are issued and given their geo-location there is not much that can be done.

This is true, all I was going by was what the BT Wholesale checker and the BT Openreach Where and when page both said 20, 22 and 24.

So either they will probably stay as that or they are still waiting for a new road name and post code.

Paul

Cab 2 has a long history which the OP is probably aware of. Yes, underground utilities are also an issue.

In reply to a post by Ribble:

Cab 2 has a long history which the OP is probably aware of. Yes, underground utilities are also an issue.

Ah, well I was unaware of the history of that cabinet, I was only going by the information that I had on my screen, just shows that BT are very slow in updating their database LOL

Paul

In the picture of the Openreach boxes I think the box on the right might be a small UPS. I assume it's to keep the connection live during a power cut so that you have a working telephone.

Yes it is. Not sure how long it will last though.

MHC

Minimum of 1 hour as defined by OFCOM but could be up to 8 hours depending on how much you use the phone and how new ( and good) are the actual batteries fitted.

It also tells you that if a UPS has been fitted it is unlikely to have copper but the Voice over fibre service instead. I have a gut feeling these will be intrepreted as EO by people as there will be no cabinet shown in the checker but in these cases this is because there is NO copper.

Edited by kitcat (Mon 16-Nov-15 16:53:58)

I know the minimum requirements - it is how long in actual usage. Given there is what appears to be a comms link from UPS to router, I wonder if it will power down the network ports leaving just the phone available after a certain time or when the battery drops below a threshold?

Paul

I think you are misintrepreting the checker results.

IF the premises are FTTP only ( No copper) it will show no Cabinet as there is no copper. You are intrepreting this as EO, in this case it is FTTP with NO copper. Therefore it will have a back-up power supply for the voice, as shown in the pictures, and the customer will have to take voice service from a VOIP or Fibre supplier if they want a fixed service. Only Fibre voice supplier I have heard of so far is BT, but plenty of VOIP ones but they may not use the Backup supply and therefore the Voice service will not meet OFCOMs standard for 999 service.

?
/me puzzled. (Through ignorance).

Doesn't the back power drive the whole connection to the fibre, hence any VOIP service will still run?

How will the VOIP handsets be powered?

If they are BT supplied they may connect through the analogue phone ports where power will be provided.

I said I was ignorant, and you've lost me there.

The handsets are presumably battery-powered, and what use would an analogue port be?

FVA is not VoIP in the sense most of us talk about VoIP. FVA uses VoIP underneath, but as far as the public is concerned it just gives you a normal phone socket.

The voice port on the ONT is a classic PSTN port, so a corded phone that knows nothing about VoIP would work. A dect phone that needs mains power for its base station would not, and the same would apply for the absolute vast majority of 3rd VoIP phones.

Thanks Andrew.

No different from a normal PSTN setup then, so not an issue. If your mains goes off you need a corded phone. Except on PSTN the corded phone doesn't rely on the battery backup.

The backup power is to run the ATA ( Analogue telephony adapter) that you plug the corded phone into ( Or Dect when mains is available).

It also appears to power the ONT for the 135Kb path only. It could be that there is some sleep mechanism controlled by the ATA to reduce the power consumption of the ONT to make the back-up last longer. Using the full 40/80/330Mb ( BB) connection would blow the power pretty fast.

The 1 hour minimum is set by OFCOM for a 'PATS' service which is what BT supply via FVA, this meets the USO BT has.

A VOIP service (A la Skype) is not a PATS service and does not have 999 availability mandated

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ga-scheme/...

Of course nobody forces you to take the FVA service but the cost difference appears to be minimal between having it and not having it.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Of course nobody forces you to take the FVA service but the cost difference appears to be minimal between having it and not having it.

So when our FTTP finally gets done (hopefully end of November) we was also thinking of moving our phone line over to FVA, so is there any costs to move our phone line over to FVA, i.e. the initial install charge and what's the monthly rate.

This was to be done at the same time FTTP is installed.
So was just wonder the extra costs involved.

Paul

Thanks for that detail kitcat . I'm now slightly less ignorant - just need to absorb it.

Paul

If you already have a copper provided service there may be no benefit to trying to move to a FVA service. It appears to be only normally provided on Fibre only sites ( New Builds) .

There will be no benefit to you on cost and none to BT Retail either.

It may not even be offered on a Overlay FTTP install you would have to have someone with an existing FTTP install answer that one!

On a New build FTTP only site the costs to you are the same as PSTN as this is how BT meets it's USO obligations and published price list. ( BT Retail pay OR different amounts but that shouldn't affect you). I do not know if this differs if you request FVA on a site also served by copper.

You can of course use any other VOIP service as you can on any BB connection ( where it is good enough).

BT Retail appears to expect you to pay the line rental as part of the package so you may not be able to just cease the Copper service.

Ok, I will enquire more information from BT when the time comes.

As for our copper line, its very bad, we often hear intermittent screeching sound on our phone line, and due to it being intermittent we cannot report it.
That was why I was hoping to drop copper.

Paul

I know how you feel, I get 3-4Mbps. Street next to me have 330Mbps FTTP and the OR Commercial rollout in for LNILC has stalled for many years.

I'm feeling particularly annoyed today...