Recent FTTP Installation

Hi All, yesterday I had an FTTP install completed. The IP profile for the line is 320mbps. I've carried out several tests since yesterday (at various times) and I'm not hitting anything above 210mbps.

Tests are carried out on a MacBook Air with an SSD (disk read/write speeds well above 800mbps)
Using ethernet over thunderbolt or using a Windows Laptop with gigabit ethernet and the results are always very similar with a range of 180-210mbps. I'm paying for 320mbps. Has anyone seen this type of issue before? Any suggestions?

Tests carried out using the BT Wholesale Speed Checker and speedtest.net. Also ruled out a faulty gigabit ethernet cable and changed the port on the router.

Try the speed test here using a wired connection http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html

Which router do you have?

173mbps bursting to 199mbps. I'm using the BT HH5a at the moment but looking at alternatives.

Did you try a factory reset on the HH5A - http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11386...

Nah haven't tried that, it was brand new out of the box.

You could also try setting up a direct broadband connection between the 'modem' and the PC to rule out the HH5A. Details you need are a PPPOE connection on the PC using a username of [email protected] with no or any password.

Have you checked with BT support that they have put you on the correct profile or whatever they call it for FTTP? I too have FTTP and they messed my connection up taking two goes wih BT to get it all working properly.

Just reading up on Thunderbolt + the Ethernet adapter, and one buyer's review says he had to turn off his Air's wifi.

On Windows myself I found on some machines that were on wireless, just plugging in an Ethernet cable didn't automatically replace the existing wifi connection.

Probably a red herring but worth a try.

The graph from our tester at http://www.thinkbroadband/com/speedtest will if flat once its ramped up indicate whether there is a cap involved, or if flapping around hints at a capacity issue

Which provider? If one that sells both a 200 and a 300 Mbps product, then most likely someone has set the wrong product profile on the ISP side.

Good call. Will try that.

a) I would use a 1Gbps wired connection to the router for such tests. On Windows, check the Status of the connection does show 1Gbps as it is easy to use a cable which is only good for 100Mbps.

b) Certainly for Windows, reboot the PC

c) Quite likely your problem is contention on the backhaul.

d) Try the dslreports.com speed test. If you create an account they will keep a history of your tests for you.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just reading up on Thunderbolt + the Ethernet adapter, and one buyer's review says he had to turn off his Air's wifi.

On Windows myself I found on some machines that were on wireless, just plugging in an Ethernet cable didn't automatically replace the existing wifi connection.

Probably a red herring but worth a try.

Yes that's correct. Wifi adapters have a higher binding order than LAN port on both MacOSX. I made sure wifi was turned off. Good spot tho!

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

Yes that's correct. Wifi adapters have a higher binding order than LAN port on both MacOSX. I made sure wifi was turned off. Good spot tho!

Just use 'Set Service Order' in Network Preferences.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

a) I would use a 1Gbps wired connection to the router for such tests. On Windows, check the Status of the connection does show 1Gbps as it is easy to use a cable which is only good for 100Mbps.

b) Certainly for Windows, reboot the PC

c) Quite likely your problem is contention on the backhaul.

d) Try the dslreports.com speed test. If you create an account they will keep a history of your tests for you.

Confirmed using 1GB link. Interestingly the speed doesn't vary very much at all using wired or wireless (I'm a few feet away from the router) I may have to downgrade to a 200mb circuit according to BT.

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

I may have to downgrade to a 200mb circuit according to BT.

Meaning:

- we don't know what is wrong;
- we aren't going to bother trying to find out;
- we don't care;
- tough.

Is that first-line support or have you got through to someone who has a clue?

I'd guess, as someone else already has, that there is a profile somewhere that is capping this, my guess would be at BT Retails end of things. Doubtless they will want to send out some poor Openreach sap who will be able to get [censored] all done to resolve, but who will have to waste many hours being shoved pillar to post to get there.

My suggestion is that the ISP needs to delete then rebuild the account their end.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Edited by Zarjaz (Tue 05-Jan-16 12:49:39)

Is it also possible that the SVLAN the guy is on doesn't have the capacity to deliver 300Mb?

He wouldn't be the first person to be sold 330Mb on an SVLAN smaller than his line's capacity.

I responded to Zarjaz on this but will post here, too. I find myself wondering if the SVLAN you're connected to, the smallest unit of capacity on the BT Wholesale network that you're using, is smaller than your 320Mb IP profile.

Andrews and Arnold has a case of a customer who couldn't get above your kind of performance as they were on an SVLAN smaller than their line's capacity.

You can shove a surprisingly large amount of FTTC customers into 200 - 250Mb.

Is it also possible that the SVLAN the guy is on doesn't have the capacity to deliver 300Mb?

In all honesty I don't know. Is there some way this can be checked, as in how did the punter in your referenced tale discover the cause ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Is it also possible that the SVLAN the guy is on doesn't have the capacity to deliver 300Mb?

In all honesty I don't know. Is there some way this can be checked, as in how did the punter in your referenced tale discover the cause ?

Andrews and Arnold. Enough said.

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

Confirmed using 1GB link. Interestingly the speed doesn't vary very much at all using wired or wireless (I'm a few feet away from the router) I may have to downgrade to a 200mb circuit according to BT.

As the line was only installed yesterday perhps give it a few days to 'settle down'/improve to see if that makes a difference before (rightfully) kicking up a fuss?

I recall reading on a blog somewhere that someone else who had an FTTP line found it took a few days for them to achieve their promised speeds

I don't believe the '10 day training' period/theory that goes with FTTC/ADSL but I wonder if with FTTP lines it takes BT's systems a few days to fully register the line as active/the right profile.. and as such I am suggesting giving it 3/4 days to see if that makes a difference.

In reply to a post by gt94sss2:

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

Confirmed using 1GB link. Interestingly the speed doesn't vary very much at all using wired or wireless (I'm a few feet away from the router) I may have to downgrade to a 200mb circuit according to BT.

As the line was only installed yesterday perhps give it a few days to 'settle down'/improve to see if that makes a difference before (rightfully) kicking up a fuss?

I recall reading on a blog somewhere that someone else who had an FTTP line found it took a few days for them to achieve their promised speeds

I don't believe the '10 day training' period/theory that goes with FTTC/ADSL but I wonder if with FTTP lines it takes BT's systems a few days to fully register the line as active/the right profile.. and as such I am suggesting giving it 3/4 days to see if that makes a difference.

Possibly. I've just spoken to BT again and told them I'm not happy with the suggestion of downgrading to a 200mbps circuit. They have suggested waiting 72 hours to see if the line speed improves before they will investigate. I'll keep you informed. Thanks all for your suggestions.

Andrews and Arnold. Enough said.

That won't help the OP or any Openreach Johnny sent to visit though.

Nah, I've fitted enough of 'em to know that it should just rock and roll from the get go.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Andrews and Arnold. Enough said.

That won't help the OP or any Openreach Johnny sent to visit though.

Indeed not. If it is that it's probably going to be painful.

If after the initial round of 'visits' the original poster has got nowhere, i.e. no-one in power picked up the possible issue then they need to email me [email protected] and will try to pester the right people.

Can you tell us the exchange name.

If the (Host) exchange is small, or newly enabled with Fibre it is mostly the suggested SVLAN issue. There can also be more than 1 SVLAN on the exchange so you may have been put in the newest ( smallest) one.

I think there are some semi automated routines for increasing SVLAN sizes up to the full 1Gb (could be 10Gb) transmission block. So these could kick in to increase the bandwidth as you will have broken the threshold simply by doing the speedtests ( If it was broken for a long enough period, not just seconds!).

It is likely that this has cleared other cases that were similar.

I believe ISPs can see the SVLAN sizes but unlikely that the 1st line support either know about this or how to look.

This would also apply to an ISP using BT wholesale products.

Some operators will have their own backhaul and the first 330Mb customer they have could also hit a similar pinch point.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If after the initial round of 'visits' the original poster has got nowhere, i.e. no-one in power picked up the possible issue then they need to email me [email protected] and will try to pester the right people.

Thank you. I'll keep you posted with a due amount of dread and trepidation.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Can you tell us the exchange name.

If the (Host) exchange is small, or newly enabled with Fibre it is mostly the suggested SVLAN issue. There can also be more than 1 SVLAN on the exchange so you may have been put in the newest ( smallest) one.

I think there are some semi automated routines for increasing SVLAN sizes up to the full 1Gb (could be 10Gb) transmission block. So these could kick in to increase the bandwidth as you will have broken the threshold simply by doing the speedtests ( If it was broken for a long enough period, not just seconds!).

It is likely that this has cleared other cases that were similar.

I believe ISPs can see the SVLAN sizes but unlikely that the 1st line support either know about this or how to look.

This would also apply to an ISP using BT wholesale products.

Some operators will have their own backhaul and the first 330Mb customer they have could also hit a similar pinch point.

Hi sure it's LCBRI (Brinscall)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

I may have to downgrade to a 200mb circuit according to BT.

Meaning:

- we don't know what is wrong;
- we aren't going to bother trying to find out;
- we don't care;
- tough.

Is that first-line support or have you got through to someone who has a clue?

Sadly it's the same old story with BT Retail...unless you can speak to the right person you're pretty screwed. I've only spoken to 1st line (UK based) but I've put my foot down and said I'll wait the 72 period they've requested but I want this escalating internally with BT Retail. As many have said sadly this will likely involve throwing the call at Openreach. Which I'm sure will involve an Openreach engineer scratching his head, attempting a speed test with similar results...I can only assume it will then hopefully be passed to someone with more knowledge to look at the SVLANs.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The graph from our tester at http://www.thinkbroadband/com/speedtest will if flat once its ramped up indicate whether there is a cap involved, or if flapping around hints at a capacity issue

Which provider? If one that sells both a 200 and a 300 Mbps product, then most likely someone has set the wrong product profile on the ISP side.

From the thinkbroadband test I get 184 bursting to 201 just now. I'm with BT on Infinity 4. The openreach logged into some system on his laptop to confirm the circuit was set to 320. But I don't know if that's something on the Openreach side or the Retail side. Perhaps you can confirm.

Have you ruled out the HH5 yet?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Have you ruled out the HH5 yet?

Yes. Direct to the modem via pppoe doesn't produce any higher speeds. I've also changed the ethernet cable.

Thanks

That answer from them means they don't know what they are talking about.

FTTP connects at a fixed speed, so its either that speed or nothing. No training either.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

That answer from them means they don't know what they are talking about.

FTTP connects at a fixed speed, so its either that speed or nothing. No training either.

Thanks for that. I'll speak to them again in the morning. Time to play hardball!

The openreach logged into some system on his laptop to confirm the circuit was set to 320.

Sorry, I meant to query this earlier, the downstream sync rates for FTTP are 40, 80, 110, 220, and 330. which is it ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The openreach logged into some system on his laptop to confirm the circuit was set to 320.

Sorry, I meant to query this earlier, the downstream sync rates for FTTP are 40, 80, 110, 220, and 330. which is it ?

Hi the screen I saw from the openreach engineer showed 330/30. The BTW performance test and further diagnostic shows: IP Profile for your line is - 319.25 Mbps

The engineer stated when taking a reading from the fibre a loss rate of 0.17 dB/km. I'm about to ring BT again...

Update: Spoke to BT. They tried to advise me to wait ten days for the trainer period. I spoke to a manager who finally agreed that fibre connects at a fixed rate. I mentioned the SVLANs and the IP profile. But it looks as though the call has been bounced over to BT Wholesale. So I'll likely have an openreach engineer on my door step next week...

Update: BT Openreach are sending an engineer out.

Nothing an engineer can do. The connection is perfect.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Nothing an engineer can do. The connection is perfect.

Agreed. Tried telling that to BT Retail but they're not interested. I'll have to Get MrSaffron on the case!

UPDATE: Openreach engineer attended. Checked with Wholesale and Openreach - speed is set correctly. Engineer couldn't get anything above 210. ONT changed and fibre splice checked. Light levels are good. Case passed back to retail.

I'll ring BT Retail shortly.

UPDATE: Called BT Retail. Spoke to 1st line again, went through usual standard troubleshooting. This has now been escalated to tier 2 support.

I suspect this isn't an issue on a BT Retail side of things, most likely somewhere in the Wholesale network.

You're connected at 330, so the OR network is doing what it should be. All data throughput is ultimately controlled by BT Wholesale.

I suspect this may take a while to fix and you may have to seek an alternate route within BT retail in order to get this sorted. Doesn't sound like something the standard help desk route will be able to resolve, certainly not within a reasonable time frame.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

I suspect this isn't an issue on a BT Retail side of things, most likely somewhere in the Wholesale network.

You're connected at 330, so the OR network is doing what it should be. All data throughput is ultimately controlled by BT Wholesale.

I suspect this may take a while to fix and you may have to seek an alternate route within BT retail in order to get this sorted. Doesn't sound like something the standard help desk route will be able to resolve, certainly not within a reasonable time frame.

OR engineer spoke to wholesale whilst here. They couldn't find anything wrong. The only alternate route I think of is to contact MrSaffron directly but I don't what his relationship with BT OR/WS/Retail is?

All we know is that he has often got movement when all else has failed. It does no harm to ask him if he can try.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

All we know is that he has often got movement when all else has failed. It does no harm to ask him if he can try.

Indeed. I've emailed him

No more relationship than any other press can build up over time. Slight difference being we answer and field a lot of the queries upfront from what we know rather than passing on every one, so when I get in touch its usually all over avenues have been exhausted.

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

In reply to a post by lee111s:

I suspect this isn't an issue on a BT Retail side of things, most likely somewhere in the Wholesale network.

You're connected at 330, so the OR network is doing what it should be. All data throughput is ultimately controlled by BT Wholesale.

I suspect this may take a while to fix and you may have to seek an alternate route within BT retail in order to get this sorted. Doesn't sound like something the standard help desk route will be able to resolve, certainly not within a reasonable time frame.

OR engineer spoke to wholesale whilst here. They couldn't find anything wrong. The only alternate route I think of is to contact MrSaffron directly but I don't what his relationship with BT OR/WS/Retail is?

Appreciate that, but I know when I used to work in the executive level technical complaints for BT Retail a few years ago (Dealt with Mr Ferguson myself ), a lot of the Wholesale calls were also handled by offshore call centres so engineers were often faced with similar issues to what customers were when speaking to call centres not based in the UK.

This would appear, from my lengthy experience, something which may require a specialist in one of the back end Wholesale teams to resolve.

Edited by deleted (Mon 11-Jan-16 16:04:08)

In reply to a post by lee111s:

In reply to a post by chimpingtonuk:

In reply to a post by lee111s:

I suspect this isn't an issue on a BT Retail side of things, most likely somewhere in the Wholesale network.

You're connected at 330, so the OR network is doing what it should be. All data throughput is ultimately controlled by BT Wholesale.

I suspect this may take a while to fix and you may have to seek an alternate route within BT retail in order to get this sorted. Doesn't sound like something the standard help desk route will be able to resolve, certainly not within a reasonable time frame.

OR engineer spoke to wholesale whilst here. They couldn't find anything wrong. The only alternate route I think of is to contact MrSaffron directly but I don't what his relationship with BT OR/WS/Retail is?

Appreciate that, but I know when I used to work in the executive level technical complaints for BT Retail a few years ago (Dealt with Mr Ferguson myself ), a lot of the Wholesale calls were also handled by offshore call centres so engineers were often faced with similar issues to what customers were when speaking to call centres not based in the UK.

This would appear, from my lengthy experience, something which may require a specialist in one of the back end Wholesale teams to resolve.

Agreed, it doesn't seem to be an easy win for anyone concerned. The guys I've dealt with so far are based in a call centre in Exeter. They don't seem to know much! MrSaffron is on the case now so hopefully I'll get some movement in the right direction.

Hi All,

Update: Finally reaching speeds of 280/290mbps with occasional tests above 300mbps. I've been in contact with a very helpful network engineer from BT (not retail) Facilitated by MrSaffron.

I don't have the technical detail on what has been done to rectify unfortunately.

Thank you all for your suggestions and feedback.

Special thanks to Monsieur Saffron.

Sounds like the SVLAN you were on has been increased in size or you have been moved to one which was already bigger. Either would give these symptoms.

A test early in the morning should now get you above 300Mb one in the late afternoon busy time will get you a slower one but still 250Mb plus.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Sounds like the SVLAN you were on has been increased in size or you have been moved to one which was already bigger. Either would give these symptoms.

Excellent. I wasn't talking complete pap.