FTTC Availability Checker

Does anyone have any knowledge of how the FTTC availability checker works, more specifically what details it takes into account? A few months ago a new FTTC cabinet appeared in our village. A while after, it was possible for our postcodes to order fibre. A few near neighbours managed to order it and one at least has a 38 Mb/s link. There are 7 active connections in the cabinet (source: OpenReach engineer working at the cabinet). However since I have been looking (month or so) it has not been possible to order it. Furthermore if those people who actually have it were to try to order it now, they couldn�t. So it looks very much like the checker is having problems. One possible reason is the checker no longer knows about the new cabinet, another might be that the checker takes into account existing connection speeds? I mention the 2nd option as at least 2 of the existing users have had problems (suspicion they were/are connected to the old father away cabinet) causing their data rates to be about half what would be expected. It might also be that another of the connections is running at about 5 Mb/s due to them actually being too far away. I haven�t been able to verify the last point, but the evidence points that way. As there are so few connections, if existing connection rate was taken into account, it could have a significant effect. My ISP is trying to take this up with BT, but no success so far.

What exchange and cabinet- for the houses connected if you enter their telephone number or address if their with sky/tt into the BT wholesaled adsl checker it will show what cab they are connected to.

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

The exchange is Hermitage, the cabinet is P12.

In reply to a post by APH999:

The exchange is Hermitage, the cabinet is P12.

Can you give us a postcode that is on that cabinet?

Paul

RG18 9EG

But all addresses show as no FTTC at the moment

In reply to a post by APH999:

RG18 9EG

But all addresses show as no FTTC at the moment

That postcode is too far from the cabinet.

The BT Openreach Where and when page is telling me a status of reachissue which is saying you are too far from the cabinet to be offered fibre.

Paul

I'm about .4 mile away at maximum. A neighbour that is the same distance gets 38mb, so I really don't believe that. This is a relatively new (1990) estate all cabled at the same time and we are a large part of the catchment for the new cabinet. Also an Openreach engineer working on the cabinet put my number into a laptop device (should of questioned him more on this) and said I should be able to get FTTC. I'm 99.9% certain there is a problem with the data used to feed their checker, just trying to understand more what it could be to fight my corner!

Thanks all for taking the time to read

Andy

Nos. 27-31 are on Cabinet 2 and can get it with estimates as high as 33.6Mbps. They also show 5.5Mbps for ADSL2+, (as do the previous two or three). All the others are on Cabinet 12 and show no availability, with ADSL2+ estimates ranging from 3Mbps to 5Mbps. But the pattern is very strange in the higher numbers, possibly suggesting some are on VM cable or LLU so insufficient data.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 09-Jan-16 19:18:13)

So Cab 2 is closer to a mile away at the far end of the village. This was the our local cabinet until autumn last year. I assume most of the estate still remain connected there - the engineer said there were only 7 connections to the new cab 12. One neighbour who migrated had slow FTTC speed until they discovered he was still connected to Cab 2 instead of Cab 12, he has now been correctly connected and has good speed. Another had good speed initally, but now has approx halved speed, suggesting they have subsequently miss connected him! He is still trying to get this sorted, (No 26). I'm No 19 with good ADSL2+ (7Mbs ). I have noticed no recent connection speed change, so assume I am still connected to Cab 2. We are all within .4 mile of the new Cab12. Hope this makes sense.

Edited by deleted (Sat 09-Jan-16 19:57:26)

Ok, did some checks on the Openreach Where and when page.

If you are number 19 then your on cabinet then this is your information:

[Address]
Address: 19, Kiln Drive, Curridge, Thatcham, Berkshire, RG18 9EG
Upgrade Stage: 8 of 8 (8 meaning live)
Lat: 51.4467127
Lng: -1.2963929000000007
Status: Underserved Premises (Exploring Solutions)

[Exchange]
Exchange Name: Hermitage
Exchange Code: THHRJ
Status: Accepting Orders
Lat: 51.4590721
Lng: -1.2647200

[Cabinet]
Number: 12
Status: Reach Issue

[Result]
Speeds: None
Type: FTTC

And for number 27:

[Address]
Address: 27, Kiln Drive, Curridge, Thatcham, Berkshire, RG18 9EG
Upgrade Stage: 8 of 8 (8 meaning live)
Lat: 51.4467127
Lng: -1.2963929000000007
Status: FTTC Fibre Available (Accepting orders)

[Exchange]
Exchange Name: Hermitage
Exchange Code: THHRJ
Status: Accepting Orders
Lat: 51.4590721
Lng: -1.2647200

[Cabinet]
Number: 2
Status: Accepting orders

[Result]
Speeds: 6.89 (Up), 26.2 (Down)
Type: FTTC

The information for both addresses above are the exact information that BT Openreach say on there Where and when page, granted I have cleaned it up a little to make it more easy to read.

Number 26 is also on cabinet 12 and cannot get fibre either.

Paul

So No 26 could not now order FTTC but in actual fact has 2 connections? Other addresses that have fibre have the same issue. One gets 38 Mbs, I keep saying this, but they are facts because we are not too far away from the new cabinet. Just assume that everything I have posted in the thread is fact for a moment, the checkers are only as good as the data fed into them. What could have changed so that addresses that it once felt could get FTTC can no longer?

Edited by deleted (Mon 11-Jan-16 17:13:14)

CCXO who 1st replied to you will be the poster with local knowledge for you.

My earlier post is from the results of that link, using the postcode in the Address options then selecting each entry in turn.

I didn't put a link Bob ??

True. I assume the poster of it lives near there, from what your say, but the link in their post is what I was referring to. So it would need to be information that contradicts that checker.

In reply to a post by APH999:

What could have changed so that addresses that it once felt could get FTTC can no longer?

You answer that question yourself.

You mention the facts about what is connected where, and then state

In reply to a post by APH999:

the checkers are only as good as the data fed into them.

This is the answer ... the data being fed into the checker must have changed, and must now fail to match the reality of "the facts" you mentioned.

The database within Openreach is probably known as ROSE, and represents their understanding of the physical world. When I moved home 18 months ago, a surveyor checked for an existing line ... but put the wrong cab number into the database.

Simple mistake, and easy to understand - the property is right next to that cab, and the rest of the street use it. Unfortunately, the property was actually wired into the cab in the next street. Just a 21 instead of a 20.

Unfortunately, the order for FTTC took nearly 4 months to get sorted, just to get that cabinet number changed. Without it, the FTTC back-office system kept allocating a port in the wrong FTTC cabinet.

Getting the order through required numerous visits from Openreach and Kelly's engineers; mostly fruitless. It took constant effort from the ISP to escalate through BTW into Openreach - and eventually got some traction when an engineer was allocated to do a "pair prove", which was then fed back into the ROSE database.

The important thing in your case is that you mention this ...

In reply to a post by APH999:

So Cab 2 is closer to a mile away at the far end of the village. This was the our local cabinet until autumn last year. I assume most of the estate still remain connected there - the engineer said there were only 7 connections to the new cab 12.

I have noticed no recent connection speed change, so assume I am still connected to Cab 2.

It sounds like Openreach have gone through a process of "copper re-arrangement", which is relatively rare, and seems to be fraught with difficulty as far as getting the database updates correct.

However, if Openreach have really done a re-arrangement, you have to ask both *why* and *who for*.

On "why": Obviously to shorten copper lines, to make broadband speeds better - usually where lines are too long to get service elsewhere, or on EO lines that have no cabinet option.

On "who for": The answer is NOT "just for those ordering FTTC". Openreach do not have a system that allows you (on cab 2) to order FTTC, and for your line to be subsequently moved to cab 12.

Instead, Openreach run a process to first cut your line over physically, then update their internal databases to match, then to make estimates of your FTTC capability, then to allow you to order.

It sounds like you've hit the problem that either a) Your line hasn't physically been moved to cab 12; or b) the database updates haven't gone through, and need to be chased.

Edit: Typical! After writing all that ... I used the information from PaulKirby's last post in the DSL checker again, and can see that the checker is now reporting a connection to cab 12, with decent FTTC estimates.

Properties 27-31 remain on cab 2, though. Physical reality, or is the database still wrong for them?

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Jan-16 12:30:28)

I think it will be physical reality. All the Cab 12's now have high estimates, whereas at the time of my earlier post they had none.

Thanks Wombat for your long post it was appreciated and thanks Robert and everyone else who has taken the time and trouble to post. I did feel confident that this was an "admin" error.There were at least two of us applying pressure through our ISP's to get it sorted and another existing user was in constant contact with Openreach over connection speed issues, so somehow one of us has got through to BT.

Just to clarify the situation (for me) this is just a logical/dbase change isn't it? I haven't seen vans near the cabinet or noticed any disruption/change to my current service. I only ask because it came to my attention yesterday that another neighbour has been told he cant be connected to cab12 as its full!

Thanks

Andy

Hi Andy, after BT have physically moved/rerouted the copper connections (copper rearrangement) to the new cabinet and the cab is powered up and active, then the rest is a database change and updating their reocrds before anyone can physically order fibre from that cabinet.

This is happening to quite a few people here in Cumbria too in the later stages of the Phase 1 rollout. I myself am on Cabinet 1 but almost too far for FTTC (estimated 10 Mbps download), however a new Cabinet 3 has been built much closer to me. However Cab 3 is not activated yet (On the 'Connect' stage), the connections haven't been moved over yet and the ADSL Wholesale checker still shows I am connected to Cab 1. I'm holding fire before ordering as I've been promised by Connecting Cumbria that I will be connected to Cabinet 3. These things just take time I guess but of course the situation has been causing quite a lot of confusion locally.

Edited by deleted (Mon 18-Jan-16 12:13:29)

In reply to a post by APH999:

Just to clarify the situation (for me) this is just a logical/dbase change isn't it? I haven't seen vans near the cabinet or noticed any disruption/change to my current service. I only ask because it came to my attention yesterday that another neighbour has been told he cant be connected to cab12 as its full!

Thanks

Andy

It now seems that number 19 is now connected to cabinet 12 and can now get fibre.
The speeds that BTOR are saying/hiding are the following:

Down: 42.49Mbps
Up: 12.9Mbps

BTOR are giving this as a fixed value and not a range, so maybe they know what exact speeds that address should be getting, or maybe its the max obtainable speed, who knows.

Paul

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Edit: Typical! After writing all that ... I used the information from PaulKirby's last post in the DSL checker again, and can see that the checker is now reporting a connection to cab 12, with decent FTTC estimates.

Yeah, just did a check and I can also now see them as being able to get FTTP with BTOR saying a max speed 42.xMbps so not bad.
I just shows how bad their database really is.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Properties 27-31 remain on cab 2, though. Physical reality, or is the database still wrong for them?

Yeah, it seems that they are still connected to cabinet 2 and can get FTTC with possibly a max speed of Down: 26.2Mbps, Up: 6.86Mbps.

Paul

OK sounds great news. I am just surprised that, since the new cabinet is so much closer, my ADSL2+ speed hasn't increased. I haven't yet contacted my ISP, I just wondered if they had had a hand in getting things sorted, but I guess not as they haven't alerted me to the change.

ADSLx speed is dependent on distance from the exchange, via the cabinet. Only FTTC is dependent on distance from the cabinet.

Ah, the missing bit of my puzzle! I see, many thanks. Wonder how I missed them doing it, I have been driving past as much as possible looking for an engineer to accost!

Tx

Ooops, should of said:

Yeah, just did a check and I can also now see them as being able to get FTTC with BTOR saying a max speed 42.xMbps so not bad.

Paul

Update, connected yesterday and getting 37Mb/s throuput on 40/10 so very pleased. Taking screenshots of everything I can just in case evidence is needed somewhere down the line.

In reply to a post by APH999:

Update, connected yesterday and getting 37Mb/s throuput on 40/10 so very pleased. Taking screenshots of everything I can just in case evidence is needed somewhere down the line.

Great news, so I wasn't that far off with the speed then

As for doing screenshots, I do the same when I do tests on our line using BT's 2 tests, that way BT cannot say sorry your line cannot support that speed, when it has for several years.

Paul

Yes indeed.

Is there a way to get your phone number included on either of the BT speedtest reports? Neither of them include that - I can just see proof of ownership problems!

If you do the further diagnostics and you capture your line stats, then your IP profile will reflect your sync speed.