Leased line - best option

I have brought my poor internet connection up on these forums before, but I am considering a leased line of around 100/100.

Are there any recommendations for cheap reliable providers?

Rick

How cheap is cheap?

Personally I would probably start by talking to TalkTalk Business and Virgin Business and go from there. A lot of the cost could be the install if there is a large distance between you and the POP. Suspect you are looking at over £400 per month - is that what you consider to be cheap?

Installation costs can and will be in the thousands and for a symmetrical service like 100/100 you're probably looking at about £4-500 a month + VAT.

Where are you based? City? Rural? Town/postcode would be useful.

Leased line pricing (in a well connected city) is around £300 for 30mb/30mb, and for 100mb/100mb you will be doing well if you get it for any less than £425 per calender month.

The other question of course is why do you need such high upload speeds?

You essentially repeated what I said responding to me rather than the OP?

Yes, apologies, trying to do too many things at once.

Im also thinking about going the same route, as quite frankly my Bt spin off ISP connection is utter [censored], latency spikes as high as 140ms at 4am. ?? > and i live in OAP central.

http://www.hso.co.uk/leased-lines/leased-line/bt-lea...

http://chunkychips.net - £400pm for a 100/100mb leased line.

BT's are around the £480pm for 100/100 and are supplied with a cisco router to

If you do go down the leased line route then i would suggest you get yourself a cash generating system put in place, to help you fund the conenction.

i.e, You could always setup a little wireless lan at your house and offer other people a piece of your connection but then you could be classed as reselling the service, without correct procedure.

Setup a website - place adverts on your site for other users, ( no pop up [censored] ad's thoe ) to generate some cash income.


£400 over 3 years is alot, roughly £15k i think. + then you might have setup fee's which can come into the £3k mark.

Would copper based EFM maybe work out cheaper than a fibre leased line?

They are usually around 30/30 and consist of multiple copper pairs.

Leased lines are seriously expensive beasts, and normally business grade, which means speed, reliability and cost reflect that.

What is it you are specifically trying to achieve with a leased line solution?

If you can get FTTC with a TalkTalk backhaul, I would seriously be looking at the Andrews and Arnold Home::1T (terabyte) packages which clock in from £60/month. Full 80/20 provisioned service over the TT backhaul network, but actual speed dependent on line length of course.

http://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-home1-terabyte.html

To me, this would be like an entry level leased line, but more at a consumer (non-business) level. They even do a SoHo version of this graded for 2 terabytes per month.

If you exceed your quota, your connection is limited down to 3Mb/s (6Mb/s on the SoHo version) until the start of the next month, so your connection is never abruptly terminated, just slowed down.

Edited by deleted (Wed 30-Mar-16 15:23:27)

Deleted

Edited by ian72 (Wed 30-Mar-16 16:20:38)

I have no options of FTTC otherwise I would be going that route.

Postcode is M4 1PP ( City centre )

What speed do you have? What do you want? What do you NEED?

Is 4G an option?
You can buy a fair bit of 4G data when compared to costs of a leased line.

I'm seeing averages of around £310 to £550 for 100/100 in that area - depending on the wholesale network used.

Install can depend on term but you'll likely have ECCs too which could amount to nothing, or a hefty sum.

Matt

Ahh so you're in one of these dead buildings (new build?) like I was in London a while back - stuck equidistant between two exchanges, but no cabinet enabled for FTTC (I'm presuming the situation is something like that).

I would say wireless / microwave would be the best route. I notice Metronet (UK) Limited do microwave "leased line" solutions. Not sure if that's the same company you are with? All they would need is a line of sight across to their nearest pick-up point and you would be good to go. No digging up roads to lay physical cables etc.

Not sure how much rubbish I'm talking with my suggestion here but I'm sure someone reading will correct me / fill in the gaps if I am talking rubbish.

http://www.metronet-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...

I checked the Wholesale checker for your postcode. Should be able to get around 10meg? Are you really still on a fixed 1meg as your sig shows?

boxrick

The Broadband map shows a Metronet speedtest in Birchin Lane at 90.95 down :74.16 up. So there is some sort of infrastructure in your locality.

Try asking them as having a customer close should make it easier / cheaper to serve you.

My sig is many years old, just never updated

I have 2* 14/1 talktalk lines right now on ADSL2+.

Interestingly I contacted Metronet around 3 months ago asking how much a wireless leased line would be, cost wise they quotes at £650 per month on a 12 month contract for 100/100. Seems odd considering that you can quite often get a fixed line for cheaper than this.

£300 per month is quite do-able, £600 way out of my budget.

I require larger upload ( ie 10+ mbit ) to keep data in sync between sites, do large video uploads and offsite backups. None of which are possible on my current connection.

4G is mentioned, it is a very valid option. But I need to push the 100's of gigabytes upload in data, no provider seems to support anything more than about 30GB which is pathetic and way out my use range.

Edited by boxrick (Wed 30-Mar-16 23:24:23)

In reply to a post by boxrick:

I have brought my poor internet connection up on these forums before, but I am considering a leased line of around 100/100.

Are there any recommendations for cheap reliable providers?

Rick

How cheap did you have in mind? There might be an option around the £600 a month mark with a 36 month contract.

In the city centre that might drop a couple of hundred quid, however if you're in a block of flats that may well cause a bunch of issues.

Edited by deleted (Thu 31-Mar-16 00:18:41)

In reply to a post by keyholder:

Im also thinking about going the same route, as quite frankly my Bt spin off ISP connection is utter [censored], latency spikes as high as 140ms at 4am. ?? > and i live in OAP central.

http://www.hso.co.uk/leased-lines/leased-line/bt-lea...

http://chunkychips.net - £400pm for a 100/100mb leased line.

BT's are around the £480pm for 100/100 and are supplied with a cisco router to

£400 over 3 years is alot, roughly £15k i think. + then you might have setup fee's which can come into the £3k mark.

You forgot to add VAT and that the £400 rate from Chunky Chips, £480 including VAT, is only available in certain areas.

The lower end quotes I've had in a residential area from commercial providers came in around £600 / month including VAT for 100Mb over a 100Mb bearer.

Have you tried contacting virgin business? Our building not far away on lever street paid £2000 to have Virgin extend to it.

We now pay £60 for 200mbit and business phone line this is using coax but the speeds are always good.

Recently they also added the fibre packages if we want to upgrade.

In reply to a post by boxrick:

4G is mentioned, it is a very valid option. But I need to push the 100's of gigabytes upload in data, no provider seems to support anything more than about 30GB which is pathetic and way out my use range.

This came up on another thread recently for 4G...
http://ee.co.uk/content/dam/ee-help/Help-PDFs/EE-PAY...

£44 / month for 50GB allowance with 20GB top ups available at £20 so roughly £1/GB all in.

boxrick

The big bad wolf BT has an example 30:30 EFM circuit at £409pcm (ex VAT)as an example. Pretty sure you are in an EFM enabled exchange area so it is worth asking for a quote as a marker for others to beat.

There are quite a few other providers in the Manchester area that provide their own fibre services ( It is close to being or may already be unregulated by OFCOM due to competition in the access market for services above 2Mb) so you need to search for local providers and not take the national picture as a guide.

As others have said 100Mb :100Mb will be more in the £600 ex VAT range.

Actually a quick search came up with one that Quotes £491 for 100Mb:100Mb for your post code, cheaper for 100:50 !
This is not a recommendation as I know nothing about the supplier! just an example.

Edited by kitcat (Thu 31-Mar-16 18:30:58)

EFM should work out the cheapest.

If he's in an apartment the install should be far cheaper as the copper wiring required is already there.

But typically an EFM circuit would require 4 or more pairs, the apartment he's in may only be fed via a 2 pair cable, which is where it would get complicated again. Or the DP might not have enough spares.

His postcode is quite a way from the exchange so EFM will need 4+ pairs and may struggle to get above 10:10.

He really needs native fibre, but being central Manchester there are quite a few options and cheaper than most places.

Hyperoptic say they are looking at your postcode.

Post deleted by MrSaffron

In reply to a post by boxrick:

I have no options of FTTC otherwise I would be going that route.

Postcode is M4 1PP ( City centre )

Just done some rough pricing for you based on this postcode and would be a install of £0.00 and around £375.00 per month - would need to know a few more details to confirm the pricing.

Read the site rules which are in the FAQ section about commercial solicitation

I had thought about reporting but the FAQ says:

However, we do not have a problem with users posting links to their web sites in signatures, or posts provided their posts are materially useful and are not simply seeking to promote their products

So as it was a direct response for a request about lease lines I assumed it would fit the rules? A user asking for a suggestion of a supplier and a supplier responding I assumed would be OK?

In reply to a post by ian72:

I had thought about reporting but the FAQ says:

However, we do not have a problem with users posting links to their web sites in signatures, or posts provided their posts are materially useful and are not simply seeking to promote their products

So as it was a direct response for a request about lease lines I assumed it would fit the rules? A user asking for a suggestion of a supplier and a supplier responding I assumed would be OK?

I also thought it was within the forum rules however if it has broken the rules then thats not a problem and I do apologies.

I am a member of other forums and dont wish to be seen just to be touting for business, I wish to contribute to the forum as much as possible and answer any questions that members may have.

Again my apologies

Kind Regards
Jamie

It is a fine line and some thought it crossed the line, and I was 50/50 so went with the combined opinion.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is a fine line and some thought it crossed the line, and I was 50/50 so went with the combined opinion.

Not a problem, we all have a job to do

Of course there are many operators able to provide Ethernet and AAISP has a calculator to give a quick quote

http://aa.net.uk/ethernet-quote1.html

Sorry I have landed here as I too have a similar problem.

Postcode is IP8 3ED. We are struggling with our internet (like 2 mps on a good day!)

I used https://www.amvia.co.uk/leased-line to get some quotes, which ranged from £475 pm to £1229 pm on a 3 year no installation deal.

Are these good and what do I need to think about on the techie side?

Good? That link is just another broker site, and am hoping this is genuine question rather than surfacing an old thread just so can post the link.

On the speeds I'd be taking a serious look at switching provider if only getting 2 Mbps and looking at service options e.g. 2 Mbps is what we expect from ADSL/ADSL2+ but VDSL2 (sold as fibre services) should manage 6 to 12 Mbps in the postcode and thus save a few hundred pounds a month.

Mr Saffron I am not broker, I am a management consultant - (linkedIn Stefanie May). So i am not a techie and some help would be appreciated. The link worked great for me but it left me with a few questions.

We have looked at the providers but as fibre is 1.4 miles away. My husband works in payments systems and so we need much better (and guaranteed) internet connection.

So ... can we get back to some help?

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Oct-18 12:16:01)

Take the results from the online leased line checkers with a pinch of salt because to get a true cost you will need to get in touch with the leased line broker by phone/email with your details. I also recommend linebroker.co.uk as a good source to compare leased line providers.

But to answer your question, if leased line costs are worth it, only YOU can answer that. If having an always on 24/7 internet connection is critical for your business (ie any downtime will cause a financial loss to your business) then yes, the extra outlay is worth it (IMHO). Most leased lines have a fix time of hours , rather than days/weeks as is the case for residential/small business services.

Obviously make sure you get an appropriate SLA and speed guarantee with any leased line service you take out.

Thanks Baby Frogmella

So alongside the comparison sites, should I contact them all directly? And is there anyway some good guidance on what should be included in the SLA?

And what do you mean 'Most leased lines a have a fix time of hours'? I thought they were on all the time with unlimited usage?

Thanks

"And what do you mean 'Most leased lines a have a fix time of hours'? I thought they were on all the time with unlimited usage?"

They mean if it breaks then you are a much higher priority for repairs. Nothing at all to do with usage.

Help was given, but all too often people posting to old threads are posting to raise the profile of sites i.e. spammers

So you are not and back to the point I raised...and put more succinctly?

Do you have ADSL2+ or FTTC now? i.e. standard broadband or one of the fibre services?
What speed is the service connecting at, i.e. connection speed figures from the web interface of the modem.

Cabinet 7 where exactly is it located? as estimates for premises in the postcode suggest a speed range of 8.8 to 25.6 Mbps for at least one property in the postcode. The older cabinet 1 which suspect you were previously using is around 1.4 miles away

Lease line costs can vary wildly depending on location and what providers are offering. You really need to get a number of full quotes from providers and compare based on cost, service and support. It may take a lot of work to find the best deal for your requirements and you may need to engage someone for professional advice.

In reply to a post by SuffolkSunsets:

Thanks Baby Frogmella

So alongside the comparison sites, should I contact them all directly? And is there anyway some good guidance on what should be included in the SLA?

And what do you mean 'Most leased lines a have a fix time of hours'? I thought they were on all the time with unlimited usage?

Thanks

Yes, give the leased line brokers a call as that's really the only way to get a true idea of costs.

Some things to bear in mind:

*In the SLA make sure a minimum fault repair time of 8 hrs is included, this can even go up to 2 hrs but at considerable cost.

*Try to get a min speed guarantee also, though often this comes as standard no matter which speed you go for.

*Currently Virgin Media are being very aggressive with their pricing for leased lines, you may get a very good deal if going direct through them. They also sell through brokers so worth comparing the 2 prices.

* Last but not least, very important to remember that once you have a leased line installed, it remains totally independent of residental/SME FTTP services, ie you cannot move your service to BT Retail/Zen/AAISP etc even as a business customer. You may be able to change providers once your min term on the leased line is completed but your broker would be able to advise more on this.

I should also add some leased line providers (eg BT Business) offer a 3k voucher which can go towards the installation costs:

https://business.bt.com/products/broadband/bt-leased...

https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/wp-content/upl...

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Oct-18 16:37:09)