Who will be the network provider?

There've been several occasions in the last couple of years when I've seriously considered switching from ADSL to fibre broadband (FTTC). Making such a switch, however, has been hampered by the possibility that I might move house, the new location having been less-provisioned for FTTC in that period than is the case at my current location. However, since about 6 months ago, the very exchange I'd be on at the new location 'went FTTC', according to samknows.com. Being a village with just the one exchange, I'd almost certainly end up using that exchange.

I'd probably take the opportunity of also changing my ISP. But why is it that both my current ISP and the favoured new one (IDnet) are unable to tell me definitively whether: a) they'd be able to provide me with an Internet connection at all from that new exchange, and b) which network provider they'd use for that, eg. whether BT Wholesale (BTWh), TalkTalk, Sky, etc? Instead, both ISPs insist they'd need to know the full telephone no. and address, before they could say, and of course I can't give them that until I've actually found a new house in that vicinity. I know the area well and have run some dummy FTTC availability tests, with positive results.

Personally, I'd prefer to have BTWh as the network provider, since TalkTalk and Sky have more of a tarnished reputation in matters networking. I'd definitely re-establish a BT landline phone account, which would nicely dovetail with BTWh, so why the lack of a clear answer from these ISPs, IDnet especially? As with my current arrangement, I'd want no other services other than a BT phoneline, which I'd order from BT themselves, and the fibre account.

I can see from samknows's info on the exchange that it includes provision for BTWh connectivity. Indeed, the only other is LLU provision by way of Sky or TalkTalk. But since I wouldn't want LLU, why can't the ISPs say whether they could provide me with an FTTC connection from that exchange using BTWh, even though it's only a hypothetical order at present? For example, IDnet has told me that "unfortunately there'd be no guarantee of being put on a BTWh connection. We often use a company called Fluid Data for some of our orders."

This uncertainty means that the housemove is currently being postponed, since I wouldn't want to move to a location where I'd be forced to use the likes of, say, TalkTalk or Sky as the network provider. Am I misunderstanding the typical setup in exchanges, or what exactly? It appears that when you sign up with an ISP these days you don't necessarily get a BTWh connection, despite you being on a BT landline and also not needing LLU additional services.

Surely, if I simply quote the exchange and its status to the ISP, they should be able to say whether they could provide FTTC from it and whether via BTWh? Okay, theoretically some cabinets could turn out to be non-enabled as yet, but thus far I've found no evidence of that. Am I wrongly criticising IDnet, or is it that I'm missing a trick here?

That an exchange has been "FTTC enabled" is no guarantee that any specific address can access an FTTC connection. You need to check whether the connection at a specific address is an EO (exchange only) line or served via a cabinet and if so which cabinet. EO lines cannot currently access FTTC connections and not all cabinets on an FTTC enabled exchange are necessarily able to provide an FTTC connection. Distance from the cabinet is also important but first check what might be available.

If you know your new address, or better its current phone number, the answer to some of these questions can be provided by using the BT Wholesale Address Checker. Use either the full address or the current phone number, NOT the postcode. This should then tell you what is currently available, The top entry will also tell you whether you are connected directly to the exchange or via a cab, in which case the cab number will be shown.

MCM,

You seem to have missed that, although I'm unable to provide a new telephone no. and precise address at present, I've performed some dummy availability tests and that, in every case, the results were that FTTC is available. These were done using the new location's public library address, the new location's post office, and a small business in the area as trial addresses/nos. All of these openly publish their phone nos. and would be near the new address. The location is actually a village, so these particular addresses would almost certainly be on the same exchange. Further, I've not only already used the BT Wholesale Address Checker but also I've run the checkers provided by my current ISP and by IDnet. In all cases, the results have shown that FTTC is available to the dummy addresses I used. Whilst clearly I wouldn't be moving into the actual public library, I certainly wouldn't be very far away from it, so given the apparent status of things there at present, why can't IDnet tell me whether I'm likely to end up with the sort of connection I'm after?

Due to a serious medical condition, I'm housebound and there's no way I'm going to move house - it'd be a move to a completely different part of England - if I can't be assured that in the new location I'd have at least a half-decent broadband connection. As matters stand, I'm in a catch-22 position over this, as regards IDnet and my current ISP.

You're overcomplicating things. Since most non-LLU based ISPs use BtW backhaul for FTTC connections chances are you will be on BT - that's assuming your cab is FTTC enabled at your new address. AFAIK IDNet don't use TalkTalk or Sky's network. Who is your current ISP?

In reply to a post by meditator:

Personally, I'd prefer to have BTWh as the network provider, since TalkTalk and Sky have more of a tarnished reputation in matters networking.

Care to provide evidence that TalkTalk's and Sky's networks are inferior than BTw's? Perhaps you're confusing TT and Sky customer support with network performance? As the likes of AAISP use the TalkTalk wholesale network for some of their FTTC/ADSL2+ services then you're worrying unnecessarily. Sky don't allow other ISPs to use their network (AFAIK).

Edited by deleted (Sat 09-Apr-16 14:44:35)

but how can you be sure that your new property will NOT have an exchange only (EO) line? You really need to provide a firm address/tel number to be sure if FTTC is available.

Only reasonably sure way is to move into a premise based on what the existing resident is able to get speed wise.

As pointed out there are many nuances that can leave a small percentage missing out.

Yes, I've seen no evidence that IDnet use TalkTalk or Sky's network, but IDnet has said that they use Fluid Data (FD) sometimes. I've googled that company but couldn't get any further with the matter. FD just seems to be yet another sub-contractor in IDnet's setup.

I didn't state that TalkTalk or Sky's performances would necessarily be inferior, it's just that from having read past reports about those companies as regards ADSL I've personally been far from impressed. Purely, a personal view. That said, I gather that my current ISP (Vispa) uses TalkTalk Business (or Vodafone) as the network provider, despite me not using any additional services. I discovered this only after being with Vispa for a year or two. Originally, I'd assumed Vispa bought their network services from BTWh. The TalkTalk network used by Vispa (at least, the current ADSL network performance), though at times not brilliant, hasn't been too bad on the whole.

Only reasonably sure way is to move into a premise based on what the existing resident is able to get speedwise.

But what if the existing resident doesn't know at what speed his/her connection runs, or even has a broadband connection?

Once you've sold your own house and then bought a place 200 miles away - with the vast upheaval and expense that that alone entails - there's no going back if you then discover that the new connection speed and quality is sub-standard. That, in fact, happened to my brother in a nearby different village, so I'm not being unduly alarmist about this.

If you do decide to use IDNet then you shouldn't have any problems, irrespective of which wholesale supplier they use as they have a good reputation. You may also want to consider other ISPs such as AAISP, Xilo, Pulse8 all of whom are highly rated.

Welcome to the UK in the 21st Century.

By the way, have you checked you have mains gas and sewerage at the property? You sound as if you will be surprised to find that these providers will want an address too!

Why not wait until you have found a house?

Useful tip number 1:

Don't enter any contract to purchase until you know what you are getting?

All you need to know is the postcode & house # of the property you're planning to move to, enter that into the BT ADSL checker to get a good idea of speeds available.

Frogmella,

I'm not sure what you mean by exchange-only line. Can an EO line use only voice? If, when viewing the new premises, the existing occupier doesn't happen to know if the line is EO or at what speed the Internet connection currently runs (believe me, there are a great many people who don't know), what can you, as potential purchaser of the property, do? Just walk away?

Exchange only line is a phone line that goes direct to the exchange and not via a street cabinet. Some areas its a whole village like this, in others is just a handful and some areas its 1 in 5 so random sampling is not a good idea.

If they do not know then ask for their number. Use the BT checker, input the number and it will return either a Cabin et Number with the various option or no cabinet number and no FTTC. It is as simple as that.

Yes, I've already done that and, as I say, all results indicate good FTTC speeds. Whilst the tests were on dummy addresses, it seems to me that most other addresses in what's actually quite a small village would also enjoy FTTC speeds. That's not the issue here, though. What I'm needing to know is why an ISP such as IDnet cannot point to the exchange and say whether a property - any property - within, say, a km of the exchange and normally served for voice by that exchange can be provided with FTTC by them or not. Sure, it's going to depend on cabinet status, but surely IDnet would, in any event, have to eventually answer the question I'm asking, when I'd order the new connection?

Ah, I understand that now. You raise a good point.

If the BT checker (post 2) shows FTTC being available for a particular property then Idnet should be able to supply a FTTC service at that address...simples.

I wish it were as simple as that. My brother's Internet connection is so bad it's virtually unusable, and I myself don't happen to possess any portable Internet devices, so performing a check 'on the spot' wouldn't be feasible. No other relatives of mine there have a computer, let alone an Internet connection. (I sometimes wonder why on earth I'm actually still planning such a move, but it's a long story!). Perhaps I'd have to persuade the seller's estate agent to allow me access to one of their desktop machines or to one of their handheld devices? Or perhaps I could visit the local library, to see if it provides Internet services, and for non-members as well as members?

But what if the existing resident doesn't know at what speed his/her connection runs, or even has a broadband connection?

The user will have an ADDRESS and this is what needs to be used rather than the phone number.

In reply to a post by meditator:

Ah, I understand that now. You raise a good point.

FTTC cannot be supplied by any ISP on EO lines, for technical reasons at the exchange.

The cabinet number appears on the line above the BT Wholesale checker estimates table. If not there, then it is EO.

The full address is usually reliable in that checker, but the existing phone number of any prospective purchase is better. The pure postcode checker is very unreliable as different parts of a postcode can be served by different cabinets, and even some EO. The pure postcode option only reports on the first cabinet for that postcode in its database.

Is there any harm in telling us the exchange? There are some people on this forum who have access to detailed information.

Well ... yes, I guess so. But they're being non-commital about my enquiry to them. Given what you've all now said, I suppose it's understandable that they're not going to say yeh or neh unless and until I quote them the actual address and they've then made their own checks.

As much as I'd like to sign up with AAISP, they're far too expensive for me. IDnet, for me, represents a fairly good choice, as they're just about affordable and, thus far, have a fairly good reputation.

Good point.

It is that simple, one number and one look up either there or later, will tell you if it is EO or not.

So, have you asked about gas and sewerage yet?

Because nothing can be guaranteed and with out actually knowing the exchange and/or address we can only make guesses.

e.g. it could be cabinet is on one side of the village and you are 1.1km away and thus speeds will not be great.

Actually, I have, and for very good reasons.

Some of you have given me things to think about, and I thank all of you for your individual responses.

I must say I'd have never known about the EO-only factor, which might be a real possibility in this instance. I'll now be noting down all your various recommendations, so that I can recall the sorts of things to ask the vendor(s) the next time I'm house-searching in that location (which could be within a month or two from now).

Mind you, considering the type of accommodation required, my purchase is more likely to be an 'executor's sale', so there may not be an actual occupier to ask, in which case I'd need to rely more than ever on what I myself could find out while at that location (and not relying on local hearsay or what the estate agent thinks).