New FTTC 80/20 speeds.

Hi all

Just had a new FTTC (80/20) service installed on Monday 1st Aug, so still early days yet. On the isp website the estimate was 76Mbps Down and 20Mbps Up.

According to my router (TP-Link Archer VR900) I get the following stats:

Current rate(kbps): 19999 Upstream and 68423 Downstream

Max Rate(kbps): 27776 Upstream and 68766 Downstream

SNR Margin (dB): 14.9 Upstream/ 6.2 Downstream

Line Attenuation (dB): 0 Upstream/ 11.2 Downstream

It also shows packet errors as 139 Upstream and 71 Downstream


The Router is connected to a dangly filter and then it plugs into an old style LJU2 master socket. The connection from the router to pc is wired via a cat5e cable.

Would a new NTE5 master socket and filtered faceplate be worth the outlay ? I am pretty happy with the speeds, but if I can get up to the 76Mbps then even better.

cheers

Lee

Do you know if your cabinet is a Huawei, in which case you should get G.INP enabled?

It definitely is a master - with the yellow cylindrical capacitor?

Are there any extensions in the house - used or not? If there are, how many connections are there to the master faceplate? A connection is two or three wires - always T2 and T5, and often T3.

Please tell us the number on each of those and their colours.

Note! Best to check this well inside daylight hours unless you can do it without disconnecting. It's 7pm now and I would say that's a bit late. It can make a difference to the connection speed just like it could on ADSLx.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 04-Aug-16 19:08:06)

Those stats don't look like interleaving is on, so AIUI G.INP is not going to be activated on the line.

It's presumably on an open profile at the moment. G.INP should come on in a couple of weeks if it's a Huawei cabinet.

In reply to a post by lee32uk:

Hi all
website the estimate was 76Mbps Down and 20Mbps Up.

According to my router (TP-Link Archer VR900) I get the following stats:

Current rate(kbps): 19999 Upstream and 68423 Downstream

Max Rate(kbps): 27776 Upstream and 68766 Downstream

SNR Margin (dB): 14.9 Upstream/ 6.2 Downstream

Line Attenuation (dB): 0 Upstream/ 11.2 Downstream

It also shows packet errors as 139 Upstream and 71 Downstream

Lee

Most of us would vote for Jeremy Corbin if you gave us these speeds.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Do you know if your cabinet is a Huawei, in which case you should get G.INP enabled?

Not sure to be honest. I have found out the cabinet number I am connected to from the link below:

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm

Which says I am connected to Cabinet P18 (0161 320) which according to the map is on Hillside view.

Google maps only shows a single green cabinet in that location:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4358888,-2.1012237...


Not sure if that helps any

Codelook tells you it's a Huawei

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Codelook tells you it's a Huawei

Yeah I just noticed the vendor bit after I posted it lol

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It's presumably on an open profile at the moment. G.INP should come on in a couple of weeks if it's a Huawei cabinet.

So best just to wait a couple of weeks and see if it improves ?

G.INP will certainly help and I think your router supports it.

You may be being affected by your phone wiring so sorting that out will help as well, if indeed there is a problem with it.

Do you have telephone extension sockets in your home? Do you have anything else connected to the phone line, such as a Sky box, alarm, etc.?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It definitely is a master - with the yellow cylindrical capacitor?

Are there any extensions in the house - used or not? If there are, how many connections are there to the master faceplate? A connection is two or three wires - always T2 and T5, and often T3.

Please tell us the number on each of those and their colours.

Note! Best to check this well inside daylight hours unless you can do it without disconnecting. It's 7pm now and I would say that's a bit late. It can make a difference to the connection speed just like it could on ADSLx.

Yeah it is definitely the master socket. It has a big Green capacitor inside it though rather than Yellow one (Pic below)

http://i65.tinypic.com/w1rb87.jpg

Front view of socket:

http://i68.tinypic.com/315jtec.jpg


I have a single extension in one of the bedrooms, but it is a dead socket (Just plugged the DECT phone into it)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

G.INP will certainly help and I think your router supports it.

You may be being affected by your phone wiring so sorting that out will help as well, if indeed there is a problem with it.

Do you have telephone extension sockets in your home? Do you have anything else connected to the phone line, such as a Sky box, alarm, etc.?

Yeah just looked at the specs for my router and G.INP is listed.

I just remembered that I have a spare NTE5 master socket (From a disconnected 2nd line). I guess I could fit that in place of the LJU2 (I know BT don't approve of you messing with the master socket) and then I can fit a faceplate as well.

As for extensions there is only one in a bedroom but it is dead (Tested with the DECT phone plugged in).

I have Sky but it isn't connected to the phone line. No alarm system or anything else that could affect it.

Edited by deleted (Thu 04-Aug-16 21:11:59)

What estimate is given for your line by www.dslchecker.bt.com assuming you have a BT phone?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

What estimate is given for your line by www.dslchecker.bt.com assuming you have a BT phone?

The phone is also with the new isp (Pulse8) so that link doesn't work for me anymore. It just says there is no data available for this number.
The email from the isp gave an estimate of 76Mbps and I seem to remember that when I checked the DSL checker website (Prior to switching over) it gave a similar figure.

Pity. You may be able to persuade them to send an engineer to get your speeds up to their estimate, rather than doing the work yourself.

I have a single extension in one of the bedrooms, but it is a dead socket (Just plugged the DECT phone into it)

There is clearly no extension fed from the pictured socket, I wonder if the feed for the upstairs socket is teed in at a joint on the eaves or the like ?

In reply to a post by robertdelamare:

In reply to a post by lee32uk:

Hi all
website the estimate was 76Mbps Down and 20Mbps Up.

According to my router (TP-Link Archer VR900) I get the following stats:

Current rate(kbps): 19999 Upstream and 68423 Downstream

Max Rate(kbps): 27776 Upstream and 68766 Downstream

SNR Margin (dB): 14.9 Upstream/ 6.2 Downstream

Line Attenuation (dB): 0 Upstream/ 11.2 Downstream

It also shows packet errors as 139 Upstream and 71 Downstream

Lee

Most of us would vote for Jeremy Corbin if you gave us these speeds.

that would be a resounding no then, good he's a pillock, and would be as dangerous to us as fatima merkel is currently to the people of germany

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 04-Aug-16 22:33:51)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Pity. You may be able to persuade them to send an engineer to get your speeds up to their estimate, rather than doing the work yourself.

I can pick up a filtered faceplate and plastic Krone tool for about £15, so I don't really mind doing it myself. I know you are not supposed to mess with the BT socket but what they don't know won't hurt them

but what they don't know won't hurt them

Except of course, it is more often than not patently obvious that such things have been done.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

but what they don't know won't hurt them

Except of course, it is more often than not patently obvious that such things have been done.

The spare NTE5 socket that I have has the BT Piper logo on it though, so I guess they wouldn't know either way ?

Don't forget Zarjaz has suggested you may have old star wiring before the master causing a problem

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Don't forget Zarjaz has suggested you may have old star wiring before the master causing a problem

Yeah I will have to check that tomorrow. Can I just follow the cable coming from the telegraph pole ? I live in a bungalow so it should be pretty easy to follow. Also if it is a single cable straight to the master socket then does that rule out star wiring ?

In reply to a post by lee32uk:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Don't forget Zarjaz has suggested you may have old star wiring before the master causing a problem

Yeah I will have to check that tomorrow. Can I just follow the cable coming from the telegraph pole ? I live in a bungalow so it should be pretty easy to follow. Also if it is a single cable straight to the master socket then does that rule out star wiring ?

It might enter a BT80 box before the master socket.

Paul

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Don't forget Zarjaz has suggested you may have old star wiring before the master causing a problem

Which is what I was wondering and why I wanted to know about extensions and the wires on the back, which gave rise to the pic .

As Paul says, it may go through a junction box. What you need to check is that only the wire to the master comes out of that, and similarly at any other box it goes through.

If there is no other wire shooting off anywhere you do not have star wiring, but I would also be surprised if replacing the master would have any effect. Zarjaz may know the probability there.

Star wiring would cause a speed loss such as you have.

Who installed that? 99.9% certainty it was not a BT Tech. How long has it been there for? 20 years maybe?

As for your ISP says 76Mbps - what did they actually say? What was the standard/clean range and the impacted range?

It might enter a BT80 box before the master socket.

Except of course that the cable feeding the pictured socket is dropwire 10, which will be fed from outside ......... Extremely unlikely that there would be a BT80 o/s the property.

The OP has now said it's a bungalow, so all bets are off, star wired from the loft maybe ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It might enter a BT80 box before the master socket.

Except of course that the cable feeding the pictured socket is dropwire 10, which will be fed from outside ......... Extremely unlikely that there would be a BT80 o/s the property.

The OP has now said it's a bungalow, so all bets are off, star wired from the loft maybe ?

Yeah, maybe.

Paul

Not had a chance to have a look for any additional wiring yet. I can see from outside though, that the cable from the telegraph pole attaches to a metal D ring/bracket, and then goes through into the loft space. I will dig the ladders out tomorrow and see if I can find any extra cabling up there.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As Paul says, it may go through a junction box. What you need to check is that only the wire to the master comes out of that, and similarly at any other box it goes through.

If there is no other wire shooting off anywhere you do not have star wiring, but I would also be surprised if replacing the master would have any effect. Zarjaz may know the probability there.

Star wiring would cause a speed loss such as you have.

I had a quick look in the loft but I couldn't really see anything as the loft insulation covers everything. I also couldn't see any evidence of junction boxes anywhere, so I can only assume that the drop wire goes straight to the master socket.

The only extension socket in the property (Which is placed conveniently down the side of a wardrobe) is also not connected to anything. I managed to trace the cable from the socket, and it had been snipped off and left under the carpet.

So going back to my initial plan, if I replace the old LJU2 with an NTE5 and filtered faceplate would that likely increase my speeds ?

I was looking at these two items:

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/openreach-branded-nt...

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vte2015filteredfacep...

And a cheap IDC tool: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/IDCtool.html

I do have a spare NTE5 but it is an older type (BT Piper Logo) so I might as well get a newer one.

I would suggest using an interstitial filter plate rather than the one you show. With this it's possible to disconnect the extension wiring but leave the filter and VDSL connection in place for test purposes.

The older NTE5 you have will include a 26A surge arrestor which adversely affects broadband speeds.

Edited by caffn8me (Sun 07-Aug-16 15:48:13)

The front plate filter you link to is, as Sarah says more subtly, cheap tat.

I will also add again that what you are proposing to do with the LJU/NTE contravenes Openreach T&C's.

The drop wire feeding the current working socket must be visible on the other side of that wall it is fixed to. Just because there's insulation in between the joists doesn't mean that there's not cabling and junction boxes obscured by it. Note where the feed enters the loft from outside, in the loft this will be the place to start hunting.

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

I would suggest using an interstitial filter plate rather than the one you show. With this it's possible to disconnect the extension wiring but leave the filter and VDSL connection in place for test purposes.

The older NTE5 you have will include a 26A surge arrestor which adversely affects broadband speeds.

I did look at that one but wasn't sure which was best, so thanks for that.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The front plate filter you link to is, as Sarah says more subtly, cheap tat.

I will also add again that what you are proposing to do with the LJU/NTE contravenes Openreach T&C's.

The drop wire feeding the current working socket must be visible on the other side of that wall it is fixed to. Just because there's insulation in between the joists doesn't mean that there's not cabling and junction boxes obscured by it. Note where the feed enters the loft from outside, in the loft this will be the place to start hunting.

Yeah I know I am not supposed to touch the master socket, but I don't fancy paying Openreach £100+ just to punch a couple of wires into a new one.
I will try with the iPlate and new NTE5 first and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't then it has only cost me £30 or so.

It is pretty awkward to trace the cable in the loft as I can't get anywhere near it due to the loft not being boarded out, and I don't fancy climbing through the roof trusses.

So why not request a shift of NTE ? Get it out where you want, and have it confirmed that it isn't connected to any 'old' wiring.

You almost certainly have star wiring to that extension. The wire from where it is snipped off to "probably" a junction box in the loft will be screwing your broadband.

Nothing you do at the master socket will stop that.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So why not request a shift of NTE ? Get it out where you want, and have it confirmed that it isn't connected to any 'old' wiring.

How much would that likely cost though ?

No idea, just a suggestion.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You almost certainly have star wiring to that extension. The wire from where it is snipped off to "probably" a junction box in the loft will be screwing your broadband.

Nothing you do at the master socket will stop that.

The snipped off cable is cut just before the bedroom door. The master socket is located just across the hallway (Maybe 15ft or so). I am fairly certain that it must have continued under the hall carpet to the master socket. Unfortunately there was new carpet fitted about 2 years back in the hall, so any old cable would have been removed then.

I am also 99.99% certain that there are no other extension sockets anywhere.

Is star wiring still a possibility ?

Is star wiring still a possibility ?

'Something' is causing a low sync rate on a short line, and internal wiring, bridge taps and the like are a common cause, and one you can rule out oneself more often than not.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

'Something' is causing a low sync rate on a short line, and internal wiring, bridge taps and the like are a common cause, and one you can rule out oneself more often than not.

Ok thanks Zarjaz. I will have to see if I can pull the insulation back up in the loft, and follow the drop wire.