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I've been dealing with another slow internet connection and it's on BT Infinity this time.
The house must be very close to the cabinet as the speed estimates for VDSL Range A are 80 down and 20 up for low as well as high. VDSL Range B is 80/20 high and 63.5/18.3 low.
The line comes into a BT 201D junction box in the basement with an NTE5 master socket connected next to it. There's only one telephone line active. The router is two floors above in the study - on another master socket. Cabling from the 201D to internal phone sockets around the house is Cat5e. There are lots of things plugged into phone sockets without microfilters (burglar alarm, Sky Box etc).
Initially, I was getting attainable of 35449/13088 with a sync of 35449/9998 from the study. From the basement master test socket this improved to attainable of 54572/22808 and actual of 54572/9998.
Putting a Mk3 interstitial filter in to the basement master socket, disconnecting the ring wire and replacing the study master socket with a secondary as a data extension has given a significant speed boost from the original. There's now no significant difference between attainable speeds either from the study socket or the basement master test socket. It's a 54% improvement in downstream attainable and a 74% improvement up.
There's nothing more that can be done with internal wiring but it's still well short of the low speed estimate for an impacted service. The upstream attainable is excellent at 22808. I'd expect downstream attainable to be a bit better than 54572.
There's no noise on a quiet line test.
With the BT Home Hub 5 back online, the IP Profile is 50.9 and downstream speedtest is about 48Mbps - a fifty percent improvement on the 32MBps I first measured.
I know the fact the upstream sync of 9998 tells me it's on BT Infinity 1 but we're not even syncing at 55Mbps with the Home Hub.
Ideally, I'd like to sort the problem out so that an 80/20 service can be used.
What's the best way to get BT to deal with this? Will BT deal with this?
All suggestions gratefully received.
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What's the attenuation?
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Very good question, I'll answer that when I've been back and had another look.
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Hang on, max sync on Infinity 1 is 55000/10000.
actual of 54572/9998. What are you hoping for?
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Oh I see, you want Infinity 2
the IP Profile is 50.9
What is the upstream IP Profile? 10 or 20?
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Something isn't right with the line if the attainable isn't well over 80 with those sort of estimations
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Max sync, yes, but I've posted attainable figures. I believe these should show what the line is capable of regardless of the IP profile in use. Look at the upstream. Line sync restricted to 9998 but attainable is 22808.
We're not achieving the maximum downstream sync on the HH5. The Draytek I used for testing fares better.
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I assume you have checked the sync from the test socket in the basement NTE5 since your cleaning up of the wiring?
The 50.9 IP Profile doesn't suggest to me (on a reverse calculation) a likely banded line profile, but the figures from the HH5 stats page when connected to the test socket would be useful.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Yes - as previously stated, there is no difference between a connection direct to the basement test socket and the study secondary now.
It's going to be the end of this week before I can go back again so further stats will have to wait.
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I'm not sure they do, but you need to confirm the upstream IP Profile to see if you're on Infinity 1 or Infinity 2. You can do this remotely by running https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...
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The downstream speed of 9998 given an attainable of 22808 looks suspiciously like Infinity 1 to me; The current Downstream BRAS rate is: 50.93 Mbps
The current Upstream BRAS rate is: 10 Mbps
Edited by caffn8me (Tue 16-Aug-16 19:40:24)
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Not quite. You said "There's now no significant difference between attainable speeds either from the study socket or the basement master test socket". For the purpose of detecting/(suspecting) line banding, attainable is useless. Only the actual sync matters, preferably from the test socket.
A big giveaway in some cases is that a re-sync gives an identical actual. Attainable may differ.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Yes but it may have been banded at that due to severe instability. You just need to confirm the upstream IP Profile to know and then be able to raise it with BT customer irritation to move you to Infinity 2 if you're on the wrong package.
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AIUI, banding won't change the attainable. It's the downstream attainable being well below the VDSL B low and very low considering the upstream attainable that's the problem. The clue is in the title.
Before any banding can be considered, the attainable needs to be got to where it should.
That's what I want help with.
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Have it your own way.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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Moving to BT Infiinity 2 at the moment is a waste of time because the attainable is so low.
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If it is on Infinity 1 then moving to Infinity 2 is an important first step as you're syncing at almost the maximum for Infinity 1. You're unlikely to get an engineer visit as you're already at near-enough maximum sync.
Then you should find out if your cabinet is a Huawei and if so use a modem that supports G.INP which will improve your sync.
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Cabinet is Huawei and the HH5 supports G.INP
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Only if it's a HH5 type B 
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Have it your own way. I wouldn't say it's my way. It's the correct way. I'm not entirely clueless, you know [attainable rate] is a calculation based on what the modem thinks if could do if no limits were imposed by the exchange based hardware [source] The modem actually measures things like line and signal attenuation and actual power and uses these to calculate the maximum physical speed the line is capable of regardless of IP profile or banding. As such, banding is a red herring in this thread.
Things which will affect attainable rate include line and signal attenuation, the VDSL profile the circuit is on (e.g. 8a, 17a or 30a) and the target SNR margin.
I suspect that routers typically calculate attainable based on a target SNR margin of 6dB.
My router at home is currently synced at 80000/19999 with an SNR Margin of 4.5dB. Attainable is less than this at 73080/26049.
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Thanks for that, I'll have to check. The HH5 syncs at a lower rate that the Draytek 2850 which definitely doesn't support G.INP. The Draytek provides much better stats, which is why I took it with me.
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How sure are you given the mess of wiring, that there is nothing before the master socket test socket?
Attenuation figures (though may have missed them) and what is distance to the VDSL2 cabinet?
The Openreach estimates are just estimates and are not always correct. The bin plot I suspect will show that the signal is fading away in the middle of one of the downstream bands, but upstream is holding up or there is a local noise source causing issues in a download band.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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If the physical copper environment is suspect, then a modem that can provide the Hlog, QLN, SNR and bit-loading graphs all help. They are a sanity check, at least.
The attenuation (single, and per-band) then offers comparable material on MyDslWebStats.
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I wondered about something before the master socket too. The line comes into a BT 201D and that seems as though it was installed by someone from BT. The circuit is labelled with details of the PCP. I wouldn't expect that if what Zarjaz calls a 'have a go hero' had wired it up. There shouldn't be anything before this.
From there to the master socket is a few centimetres of cable. I've checked there aren't any loose connections. Well, there was just one; on the connection to the burglar alarm, which had been giving intermittent fault warnings anyway. That's now fixed.
Maybe I'll put a tone on one of the spare pairs on the incoming and see if I can follow where it goes. It's not obvious looking at it. It disappears through a hole in the ceiling and on the floor above there's no sign.
I'm a bit limited as far as diagnostics are concerned as the HH5 is beyond useless and my unlocked HG612 is currently being used elsewhere.
I haven't definitely located the cabinet yet but I think I know where it is. I'll do that on my next trip. For upstream to show an attainable of 22808, it must be reasonably close.
As for REIN, I've looked for possible sources of interference. This is a domestic situation and the only thing that I can see that's close to the incoming cable is the central heating controller. I'll take my AM radio next time.
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Have you determined if you're on Infinity 1 but paying for Infinity 2 yet?
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You can get decent stats from HH5 including sync speed, line snr etc, you just need to go into advanced & technical log.
EDIT: Checked in a hh5 go to troubleshooting and helpdesk for stats.
Should see similar to:
1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068343+NQ33689394
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.4 (Type A) Last updated Unknown
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 4 days, 05:15:14
6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 30324 / 98992
8. Noise margin: 15.2 / 8.8
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 14.7
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 14.7
Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 17-Aug-16 12:23:08)
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No, because that won't change the downstream attainable, and that's the problem I'm dealing with initially.
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So you're doing it the wrong way round - solve a problem that may not be a problem before determining what package you're actually on 
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Thanks for that, but those are still very limited stats compared to the HG612 or the Draytek. They don't give any idea of error rates or whether particular frequency bands are more affected than others.
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You're missing the point about what 'attainable' means. Attainable, as reported by the router, will be the same regardless of whether Infinity 1 or 2 is the package.
Edited by caffn8me (Wed 17-Aug-16 13:06:20)
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I don't think you're aware of what factors influence the attainable rate.
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I've already posted what the factors include. The IP profile is not one of them.
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I've already posted what the factors include. Where?
Edited by deleted (Wed 17-Aug-16 13:13:33)
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hereThings which will affect attainable rate include line and signal attenuation, the VDSL profile the circuit is on (e.g. 8a, 17a or 30a) and the target SNR margin.
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The IP profile is not one of them. As I said before, the upstream IP Profile says which Openreach product you're on.
A quick look at mydslwebstats shows you that no-one on Infinity 1 or equivalent 40/10 or 55/10 has an attainable anywhere near 80000.
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hereThings which will affect attainable rate include line and signal attenuation, the VDSL profile the circuit is on (e.g. 8a, 17a or 30a) and the target SNR margin. That's incorrect. VDSL profile 8a or 30a are not used by Openreach. Interleaving has a significant impact on attainable.
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I refer you back to; [attainable rate] is a calculation based on what the modem thinks if could do if no limits were imposed by the exchange based hardware
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I never stated that 8a or 30a were used by BT. I stated that the VDSL profile used would affect the attainable rate and that IP profile wouldn't. I also said 'include' - I didn't say 'all factors which affect attainable rate'.
Edited by caffn8me (Wed 17-Aug-16 13:22:30)
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I refer you back to;[attainable rate] is a calculation based on what the modem thinks if could do if no limits were imposed by the exchange based hardware I don't know where you've dug that up from but it's incorrect, or missing some important caveats at least.
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I link to the source in my original quote.
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I never stated that 8a or 30a were used by BT. I stated that the VDSL profile used would affect the attainable rate and that IP profile wouldn't. I also said 'include' - I didn't say 'all factors which affect attainable rate'. It's ridiculous to suggests that IP profile affects attainable rate.
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Lol, 3 years old and needs updating 
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Perhaps you'd care to suggest what the updates should be
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I haven't You're the only one talking about it.
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Perhaps you'd care to suggest what the updates should be Interleaving has a significant impact on attainable.
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I've already posted what the factors include. The IP profile is not one of them. Upstream IP Profile (almost-)uniquely defines the Openreach product. So simple. One BTW Further Diagnostics test. 2 = 40/2, 10 = 40/10 or 55/10, 20 = 80/20.
You are going from the upstream sync to prove you are on one of those middle two, and the downstream to prove it is the 55/10 one.
But if banding is in place your reasoning falls down. Banding on both downstream and upstream could give those results. Or even just on upstream.
Having said that, you are almost certainly correct in your assertions! All I, and I think BatBoy, are trying to achieve is confirmation of that, rather than an assumption.
"... when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". You consider it not being 55/10 as impossible. So provably eliminate it.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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All I, and I think BatBoy, are trying to achieve is confirmation of that, rather than an assumption. Yes
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Given the estimates I actually think the upstream attainable is low also.
A line that can sync at 80mbit usually has attainable in the 30mbit range.
BT wont want to do anything whilst on the 55/10 service, as the argument will be a 54.5mbit sync speed on a 55 service is well within acceptable range. Of course if you upgrade to 80/20 then report the fault, with those speed estimates things should be a different story.
Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 19-Aug-16 02:22:49)
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