Exchange Only to Cabinet?

Hi
- Old office block being converted to ~30 flats.
- Office block was Exchange Only, as confirmed by the various checkers using its full address and original postcode.
- All other existing buildings (flats/houses/offices) on the same road are connected to the same fibre enabled cabinet (#4) as confirmed by the BT checker. It's about 300m away from the road (exchange is 900m away). Speeds for these other homes seem to be 70-80Mb per the BT checker.

I had previously assumed the converted flats would also be Exchange Only as it seems extremely rare to reroute existing phone lines. I was therefore gearing myself up for relatively low speed ADSL.

However, a new postcode has been issued for the converted flats. When this is used on the BT full address checker, it lists all of the flats (eg Flat 1, Flat 2 etc) and says they are connected to Cabinet 4, but FTTC is not listed. Openreach search also says Cabinet 4 and something about line possibly too long (it looks like it has the location wrong so I doubt it is actually too long and maybe connected to the fact the flats are almost, but not yet finished...so no phone numbers yet either).

So should I:
1. Assume the new postcode checks are a false positive and the converted flats will be Exchange only like the old office block.
2. Assume the checkers are right and the converted flats will actually be connected to the fibre enabled cabinet.

In other words, do I get my hopes up?

I'm moving to a new build in a couple of months and the checker says for my address that it is connected to a fibre enabled cabinet but it shows no fibre availability. The two show houses 10 metres away are both showing fibre is available.

I'm pretty sure it's the norm until a line is physically installed.

Thanks simon - that is good to know.

I still wonder though about the fact that the office block was exchange only, yet if the converted flats (same structure as the old office block) are now going through cabinet 4, then that means rerouting cables from a cabinet 300m away. And that cabinet already serves hundreds of existing properties.

Nearly everything I have read says EO being moved to a cabinet is extremely rare, and in this instance there are only about 30 flats. Although maybe that means they have enough spare lines near the block and it is not actually a complex rerouting?

As EO lines can't have fibre then they are probably pre-empting things and connecting in to cab 4 in preparation

In reply to a post by Melford:

Nearly everything I have read says EO being moved to a cabinet is extremely rare, and in this instance there are only about 30 flats. Although maybe that means they have enough spare lines near the block and it is not actually a complex rerouting?

Such network rearrangements are no longer as rare as you might think. It remains very unlikely that network rearrangement will just happen. However, as the BDUK projects move into their second stages, the 'low hanging fruit' is long gone and it might now be cost-effective to help those who were excluded from superfast broadband because of distance from an existing cabinet or being on an exchange only line. This work might involve network rearrangement, a fill-in cabinet and/or an area of FTTP depending on the existing infrastructure, the specific barriers to superfast coverage and the location and number of premises involved.

In this case, it might well be nothing to do with BDUK. The developer might be contributing towards the costs of FTTC provision knowing that the flats will be more valuable and easier to sell with superfast broadband.

Copper rearrangement is now quite a common thing, especially those on EO lines

In reply to a post by mugwumpx:

As EO lines can't have fibre then they are probably pre-empting things and connecting in to cab 4 in preparation

Erm yes they can.
Address 369 BLACKBURN ROAD, HIGHER WHEELTON, CHORLEY, PR6 8HP on Exchange BLACKBURN
and
Address 21 HARVEY ROAD, ILFORD, IG1 2NJ on Exchange ILFORD CENTRAL

We have 14 of them on our exchange.

FTTP doesn't require a PCP Cabinet, neither does it require a Fibre Cabinet for it to provide fibre.

Now FTTC does.

Paul

Uh uh Paul.

FTTP is completely independent of the EO copper. The EO line does not have FTTP. It's purely the use of the word "fibre" in what you quote that is incorrect. It should say FTTC.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Uh uh Paul.

FTTP is completely independent of the EO copper. The EO line does not have FTTP. It's purely the use of the word "fibre" in what you quote that is incorrect. It should say FTTC.

You could say the same for lines that can get FTTP who's copper lines are connected to a PCP Cabinet.

But yeah, I was referring to the wording of fibre should of been quoted as FTTC.
I was also referring to, just because you might be on an EO Line doesn't mean you cannot get fibre.

You and I know this, but new users might not.

Paul

Ah - good to know that rearrangements are more common now.
These flats are in London (NW7) so I do not think BDUK would apply and when I contacted the developer (independent) he did not indicate anything special had been done - just saying that it was connected to the normal network.

Working our way through new postcodes after a big update, and probably another coming in a month or two and a lot are seeing FTTC or FTTP available, i.e. the policy changes http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7345-improved-dea... may be bearing more fruit.

That said in previous years we have seen new build benefit, but the proportion does seem to be higher now (and am referring to London area too)

Of course while a shift to cab 4 looks likely, until someone is live you can never be sure.

The FTTC estimation requires that Openreach has a knowledge of the loss (in dB) between the cabinet and the DP, as well as knowing what cabinet the DP is connected to.

In your case, I would guess that a new DP has been installed in the block as part of the conversion, and the records have been updated to show these new addresses as being routed via the cabinet that the DP is connected to.

However, if the records don't hold a figure for the loss between the cabinet and the DP, the estimation appears to default back to a "line too long" result.

We've certainly seen cases where this has happened, and the line eventually gets a proper estimate. I don't think we've seen a case where Openreach say "whoops. you are EO after all" instead - though it does sometimes take some stubborness to overcome laziness at the ISP, BTW or Openreach.

My guess would be that you are indeed now routed via the cabinet, but need Openreach to update some database before you can order. But the chance that it remains EO is not yet zero, unfortunately.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

My guess would be that you are indeed now routed via the cabinet, but need Openreach to update some database before you can order. But the chance that it remains EO is not yet zero, unfortunately.

Hopefully things will become clearer once I am able to get the phone line activated/connected, especially if that triggers databases to be updated.

Yes - that is probably one way for things to become clearer. It usually takes 24-48 hours for the database changes to reflect into the estimates.

So is a good plan (if I am going with BT):

1. Get BT line installed
2. Once done check what broadband product I can get assuming the databases have updated now that there is an active phone line.
3. Order FTTC product if possible (BT Infinity in this case).

Does following this plan mean I will lose out on all the new customer offers, as since I would have signed a 12 month contract with BT for the phone I am no longer 'new' ?

Alternatively I can sign up on an ADSL 'bundle' but can this be then converted to FTTC if it turns out I can get it?

Oooph - i think others will have to add opinions on how to best do this WRT keeping decent offers in place.

How close to moving in are you? Will others have started to occupy the block before you? If so, their orders might be enough to trigger enough of an update to the database.

I am a couple of weeks away. But I think I will be one of the first to move in. I think I might just go ahead and get the phone line ordered in order to get things moving.
Hopefully I could negotiate some kind of offer to add on ADSL/FTTC once I know the status of the line.

I ordered a BT phone line (on its own) a few days ago with an installation date of 14 September and requires an engineer visit to connect up to the internal DP.

However, today bt wholesale and other checkers said I can order FTTC (based on address search as I don't have a connected phone line yet).

While this is great news, I don't know what to do about my existing order. Do I:

1) Cancel and order new phone+FTTC together (asking for simultaneous provide)
2) Wait for phone order to complete and then order FTTC

I was thinking 1) would mean I get FTTC sooner but then I read simultaneous provides can go wrong and have longer lead times. So maybe 2) is best?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I'd wait till the line is active then order FTTC.

Go for the order, since the FTTC will most likely be a cab only task, they will just bundle the job together with that for the install .... I did two of these yesterday

Do you mean cancel the phone order and then order the bundle?