G.fast pilot deployment beginning 9 Jan 2017 - Redux

As noted on this post.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefi...

G.fast pilot deployment will begin 9 January 2017

What�s next?
Our pilot deployment will take place in; Cherry Hinton in Cambridgeshire, Gillingham in Kent, Bolton in Greater Manchester, Cheltenham in Gloucestershire, Derby in Derbyshire, Donaldson in South East Scotland, Langside in Glasgow, Luton in Bedfordshire, Rusholme in Manchester, St. Austell in Cornwall, Swansea in Wales, Swindon in Wiltshire, Sheffield and Balham and Upton Park in London.

It�s our ambition to make Ultrafast speeds available to 138,000 homes and businesses by the end of March 2017 via our G.fast pilot deployment phase.

160Mb/30Mb and 330Mb/50Mb so will probably hit end users as 150 and 300Mb.

How dare you come here with facts!

So, how long before the rest of the country?

It seems to be the same places that get first dibs.

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

So, how long before the rest of the country?

It seems to be the same places that get first dibs.

I was thinking the same, our exchange has been used loads of times for trials, sadly it wasn't this time.

The nearest one that was to us is the Upton Park (London) Exchange.

Paul

Exchanges with lots of FTTP are less likely to see G.fast but might be candidates for expansion or completion of the FTTP holes

Is there any word on whether the whole areas served by these participating exchanges will be G.fast enabled, or just a few cabinets?

I would imagine just certain cabinets.

I don't suppose all the cabinets have FTTC yet, so no, I don't suppose all the cabinets will get g.fast

Parts of those areas, and given the range of G.fast even if every cabinet got a g.fast pod not everyone would benefit.

Toggling the two layers at https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/g-fast-map-model will give some idea of the differences that decisions in deployment can make.

NOTE: Map is not based on any secret role out, but is purely a model based on what we know about g.fast capabilities and a desire to hit 10 million premises figure.

Further tweaks like retail providers expressing a desire to have a faster service to compete with Virgin Media might see a massive overlap with the cable network.

And then they will just say " people can get FTTP" and not include the area, omitting the fact it's FTTPoD which no one can seem to order anyway. (Even Spectrum came up blank for me)

Usual BT trying to avoid paying tactics.

Well if BT do that, they their FTTP coverage figures will not align with ours and others by a MASSIVE margin so its not a game they will play

I noticed that BT pushed back the full roll out of G.fast until the 2nd half of 2017. We'll have to see if that actually happens.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Exchanges with lots of FTTP are less likely to see G.fast but might be candidates for expansion or completion of the FTTP holes

Well that's the thing Andrew, it was suppose to be mostly FTTP according to the old NGA Docs, sadly most of the FTTP was never completed and won't be so I have been told.

Back in 2011 - 2012 there was plans for 36 cabinets as FTTP, 11 cabinets as FTTC, ~5 cabinets as not viable and a bunch of EO Lines which is in the middle of being given FTTC as part of LEP.

All the areas on our exchange being done as LEP so far have been for the EO Lines.
A few are unable to get FTTC leaving about ~12K lines that was to be FTTP with either ADSL 2+ or nothing.

Our exchange (Ilford Central [LNILC]) is in a right mess according to all the engineers, also half the areas that codelook says can get FTTP cannot get it due to the lack of fibres available.

Now some of those areas that was down for FTTP already have all the hardware right up to the manifold on the pole, they have been downgraded to FTTC according to the engineers that I have spoken to.

TBH I cannot see BT filling in the FTTP holes, we was told by a few engineers that we are only getting FTTP due to our hardware already has a live active line on it, also had the help of my local MP along with a few emails to the right people at BT.

Everyone else on our PCP cabinet will have to wait for FTTC and if they are lucky then G.FAST when it gets rolled out.

I did question about G.FAST and they said its due to parts of our PCP go to shops on the main road, so maybe just those shops will get G.FAST or the full remaining on the PCP will get it once FTTC has been installed.

I told then what a waste of funding for areas that already have all the FTTP hardware installed if it was to be given FTTC or G.FAST, but they went on to say not really, they would just remove the redundant DP and replace them with the G.FAST Nodes in the chambers where they just bridge it over to the copper line, well something like that, I was too excited about them installing our FTTP to really pay attention LOL.

Paul

In reply to a post by bowdon:

I noticed that BT pushed back the full roll out of G.fast until the 2nd half of 2017. We'll have to see if that actually happens.

Where are the proof of this?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by bowdon:

I noticed that BT pushed back the full roll out of G.fast until the 2nd half of 2017. We'll have to see if that actually happens.

Where are the proof of this?

I think they "might" be referring to "the full roll out" meaning everyone else, I think the first areas that BT said they will be rolling out G.FAST to will still go ahead as planned.

Paul

You are probably to get it first because u already on FTTP might flavour BT to roll out G.fast as you might getting 500Mbps down and 250Mbps up? Your ethernet lan network might need 2Gbps link speed.

Edited by adslmax (Thu 15-Dec-16 18:57:09)

Errrmm.

Isn't G.Fast a way of speeding up FTTC?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

You are probably to get it first because u already on FTTP might flavour BT to roll out G.fast as you might getting 500Mbps down and 250Mbps up? Your ethernet lan network might need 2Gbps link speed.

Well I all I would need to change is the LAN Switches to 10Gb ones.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Paul

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Errrmm.

Isn't G.Fast a way of speeding up FTTC?

I will be more than happy to get 80/20 to become 160/40 on FTTC for now.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Errrmm.

Isn't G.Fast a way of speeding up FTTC?

Yes, I think so, but at the same time they are rolling out G.FAST for them, areas with FTTP will be given an option for faster speeds like adslmax stated.

I was also told the same by several of BT's FTTH Engineers, along with a possible 1 Gbps down and various upload speed variants.

But they said that BT's infrastructure would need to be upgraded to the 10Gb or upwards before that would happen, and that some areas already have that done.

Paul

I used to tolerate these out bursts of stupidity from you 10 years ago when you said you were a teenager but G.fast is for copper and NOTHING to do with the FTTP i.e. those with GEA-FTTP will not be seeing G.fast at all.

Also no reason why Ethernet LAN would need a 2 Gbps link speed to handle 500 Mbps either, and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

Gigabit GPON FTTP is on the way as an option, hence the wholesale pricing article sometime back

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Gigabit GPON FTTP is on the way as an option, hence the wholesale pricing article sometime back

Yeah I recall that article and also a couple of posts about it too.

Would be nice to see the actual pricing of the new options, not that I will get any of them (he says that now, so you never know) TBH I think 300 Mbps down and 30 Mbps up is plenty for us here.
Mind you I wouldn't mind some more upload speed (you can never please some people LOL).

Paul

I'd be sceptical of anything an engineer tells you on the street that hasn't been mooted publicly. At that level.they are unlikely to be privy to much info that isn't already publicly available.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

you might getting 500Mbps down and 250Mbps up? Your ethernet lan network might need 2Gbps link speed.

1Gbps not enough then?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Errrmm.

Isn't G.Fast a way of speeding up FTTC?

I will be more than happy to get 80/20 to become 160/40 on FTTC for now.

Me too - I can bond that [censored] also

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

<-- raises hand.

I've just seen one on Ebay for 20 dollars with 66 dollars shipping! I didn't want to link it in case it broke the rules, but they are around!

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I'd be sceptical of anything an engineer tells you on the street that hasn't been mooted publicly. At that level.they are unlikely to be privy to much info that isn't already publicly available.

I would believe a BT Engineer more than what BT say over the phone due to its those engineers that are doing the actual work where the people on the phone mostly know nothing apart from what the screen tells them.

Also it was the engineers that informed us of the house 4 doors down from us that was already using our FTTP hardware, where as BT on the phone said we didn't even had FTTP down our road.

But yeah, some stuff an engineer says could be classed as a load of rubbish, but I have been rather lucky when talking to them.

Paul

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

you might getting 500Mbps down and 250Mbps up? Your ethernet lan network might need 2Gbps link speed.

1Gbps not enough then?

1 Gb LAN hardware In the home will be fine, well our main 16 port 1Gb Switch can handle a combined 160Gb according to the specs that I looked at when I brought them a while back, so I think we will be fine.

So if somebody was downloading at 500 Mbps at the same time a PC is copying at 1Gbps to another PC on the LAN the rest of the LAN will be fine, granted there would be no more internet speed left

Paul

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

<-- raises hand.

I've just seen one on Ebay for 20 dollars with 66 dollars shipping! I didn't want to link it in case it broke the rules, but they are around!

If I was having to upgrade my LAN Cards for faster ones I would op for the 10Gb ones.

Paul

That is because over the phone you are talking with BT Consumer and might as well be asking the same question to Sky or TalkTalk

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

<-- raises hand.

I've just seen one on Ebay for 20 dollars with 66 dollars shipping! I didn't want to link it in case it broke the rules, but they are around!

If I was having to upgrade my LAN Cards for faster ones I would op for the 10Gb ones.

Paul

In a lot of cases, the limitation isn't what card you can put in the PC, but what cables are built into the building.

Perhaps now is a timely reminder that Ethernet specs have been updated lately, as they've been trying to fit higher speeds down the old pathways, so you don't need to upgrade the cables in the building.

That means that there are specs for getting 2.5Gb and 5Gb down cat 5e cables that used to cope with 1Gb. But I think 10Gb still needs better media

https://indico.uknof.org.uk/event/34/contribution/21...

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

But they said that BT's infrastructure would need to be upgraded to the 10Gb or upwards before that would happen, and that some areas already have that done.

Yes, using WDM to overlay a 10Gb XGPON alongside a 2.5Gb GPON is possible, and seems like a likely requirement for offering gigabit services.

Clive Selley was talking recently about the possibility of offering symmetric services over the PON infrastructure; he said that in the context of them trialling WDM overlays of a 40Gb NGPON2 wavelength and a 10Gb XGPON wavelength and a 2.5Gb GPON wavelength all together.

Part of this talk at BBWF, somewhere near the end:
http://www.ubb2020.com/video.asp?section_id=481&doc_...

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

<-- raises hand.

I've just seen one on Ebay for 20 dollars with 66 dollars shipping! I didn't want to link it in case it broke the rules, but they are around!

If I was having to upgrade my LAN Cards for faster ones I would op for the 10Gb ones.

Paul

I'm not as rich as you

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In a lot of cases, the limitation isn't what card you can put in the PC, but what cables are built into the building.

Perhaps now is a timely reminder that Ethernet specs have been updated lately, as they've been trying to fit higher speeds down the old pathways, so you don't need to upgrade the cables in the building.

That means that there are specs for getting 2.5Gb and 5Gb down cat 5e cables that used to cope with 1Gb. But I think 10Gb still needs better media

https://indico.uknof.org.uk/event/34/contribution/21...

I am using CAT6 and CAT6A cables which wasn't cheap btw, the second being dual screened cables with a single drain wire down the middle, I am using that cable behind walls, under floors and in the loft space, the CAT6 cable is what I used for the actual Patch Cables, not really a fan of the cross shaped plastic down the middle which mad it a pain to put on the RJ45 connectors.

I chose those cables a while back due to I was thinking ahead and didn't want to have to pull through new better cable later on.

So I know my cables would be fine.

Paul

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

I'm not as rich as you

Ouch, just seen the prices, LOL.
The cheapest 10Gb LAN Card that I could find was £200 each and that would also require a different connector, it looks similar to a RJ45 connector but its longer and screened.

I think it uses a SFP connector that allows you to use RJ45 connectors, "I Think" but I could be wrong.

Also maybe once 10 Gb becomes more common the prices will drop.

Paul

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Yes, using WDM to overlay a 10Gb XGPON alongside a 2.5Gb GPON is possible, and seems like a likely requirement for offering gigabit services.

Clive Selley was talking recently about the possibility of offering symmetric services over the PON infrastructure; he said that in the context of them trialling WDM overlays of a 40Gb NGPON2 wavelength and a 10Gb XGPON wavelength and a 2.5Gb GPON wavelength all together.

Part of this talk at BBWF, somewhere near the end:
http://www.ubb2020.com/video.asp?section_id=481&doc_...

Watching the video now.

*** update ***
That was a very interesting video
I knew it was 2.5Gb shared between 32 customers

I noticed that he never discussed congestion in the network.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 17-Dec-16 00:27:58)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by bowdon:

I noticed that BT pushed back the full roll out of G.fast until the 2nd half of 2017. We'll have to see if that actually happens.

Where are the proof of this?

I got it from here: BT delays G.fast rollout 6-9 months to 2H 2017

Post deleted by adslmax

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Also no reason why Ethernet LAN would need a 2 Gbps link speed to handle 500 Mbps either, and point us to the consumer kit that gives 2 Gig Ethernet to a PC?

Not aware of any. Only solution I know of is to use a 2 port NIC and port channel it though that's hardly consumer stuff.

Hopefully soon consumer products offering 2.5Gb will be around.

I see some rather shadily advertising 1Gb but making a big point of their having 2.5Gb full-duplex PCI-E connections. Buyer beware.