Cabinet full - splitters?

So I currently have FTTC 80/20 but I only get 32 down and 6 up.

I spoke to an engineer and they say this shouldn't be the case as the cabinet is only 700m away.

But anyhow my main question is...they have built 10 new houses next door but one. Openreach are all over the place. The same engineer told me they arent putting a new cabinet in for these houses, nor are they upgrading the cabinet, but the cabinets around where I live are all full. They didn't say what they are doing but looking at the telegraph poles where the fibre comes up from ducting it looks like they have put splitters on all the connections.

Is this going to affect my speed?

How do I complain?

Also our next door neighbour is a convicted peadophile. 4th time convicted all internet crimes. I don't want to share a connection with him if that is how splitting works?

MY isp is Zen if that helps.

Thanks

You won't be sharing a connection at a data level with anyone. All Internet connections are shared at various points but from an actual logical data layer you aren't sharing your neighbours connection any more than I am.

Splitters as in those 10 new homes are getting FTTP?

In which case nothing to do with your existing VDSL2 connection and for FTTP no upgrades are needed for the cabinets.

Also at no time is your data shared with a neighbour, even on FTTP where the same fibre is used by multiple people your data is transported as your data and not another persons. The same principles apply once you reach the core network fibres where you are sharing with all sorts of people, i.e. your data is your data.

dependant on the cab run 32 meg at circa 700 metres is reasonably consistemt with speed

700 Metres is actually very lengthy for FTTC-VDSL.

Take a look at the graph on this site; and your Down Stream Speed ties in very well with the 700 Metres.

http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/chart-b...

Take a look on your modem for the Downstream Attenuation, probably around 25 db.

My Downstream Attenuation for 300 Metres is 13.4 db, with a 40/10 contract.

Downstream Speed is typically about 37 Mbps, 92%; and 9 Mbps Upstream, 90%, for a guestimated 95% of the TBB Speed Tests, of which I do 3 to 5 a day(!).

-----------------------

Also take a look at the TBB Broadband Map (top-left) at whatever records there are for your area - can be very enlightening.

There is that too

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

but looking at the telegraph poles where the fibre comes up from ducting it looks like they have put splitters on all the connections.

It really depends on what you are really seeing, and where, when you describe the situation "the fibre comes up from ducting" and "have put splitters on all the connections".

You currently have FTTC, which means the fibre only goes as far as the cabinet 700m away. The final 700m to your house uses the copper pair that always used to be there.

That copper connection, from cabinet to house, cannot be shared between houses, and no "splitter" can be added that will allow your FTTC connection to continue to work (nor any old ADSL connection either).

There used to be a digital technology that worked as a splitter, known as DACS. It would only work by separating voice calls, and was incompatible with broadband. BT would not be adding these to lines that already have broadband.

There also used to be a more basic concept - the use of party lines - to share copper. It too would only work with voice calls, and I doubt BT would attempt to install those nowadays, or convert existing lines.

Splitters do exist in purely optical cabling, but they tend to be rather hidden away, and can be hard to identify. If you have an FTTP connection, you are likely sharing it through a splitter, but the datastreams are kept logically separate.

Where are the changes you describe happening? Between the existing cabinet and your home? Between the exchange and the cabinet? On new poles for the new properties?

What does the equipment look like, that you describe as a "splitter", and where is it placed? At the top of a pole? Head height? In a footpath chamber? Does it look like a small black bottle? A green box? A large black cylinder?

The cable that you mention coming up from the ducting... Is it black? Or black with a thick yellow stripe? It is the yellow stripe that usually denotes the presence of fibre.

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

but the cabinets around where I live are all full.

Is that the PCP wiring cab that is full? Or the FTTC addition?

BT have the ability to enlarge an old PCP cabinet (by putting a new, larger shell over the old innards) or to add an extension on the side to allow new copper pair terminations.

If the FTTC cabinet is full, then a second one can be added. BT also seem to have figured out how to give the existing cabinets more capacity, using linecards with higher port counts.

The new additions are on the top of the wiring on the telegraph poles around our property not the new development. They were neat and tidy and now there is a mass bundle on each top going to these little black blocks, they seem to run into the blocks then there is nothing going out of them. Look a right mess.

These cables seem to be for internet vs phone as they come from the fibre box mounted on the main telegraph pole where it then leads down to the ground, which is where the engineer I spoke to was working.

He said that the green cabinet 750m away was saturated, no more slots, but BT aren't prepared to put in a new cabinet so they are "splitting" our connections to make room for the new houses.

He also said the cabinet is 750m away and so we should get full speed.

FWIW at my old address the cabinet was 1.3km away and I got almost twice the upload speed.

Maybe unrelated but I noticed today an engineer called round a neighbours who was not in. Then he got his ladders out and was fiddling around with the wire that goes from telegraph pole to neighbours house at house-end. It seems like they are modifying our wires somehow.

I'm completely lost, to be honest.

One minute you're talking about FTTC then you seem to be talking about fibre on poles. If you have FTTP on your telephone pole that operates independently of any cabinets. Are you sure they're not just adding another copper DP to the top of the telephone pole? Maybe the current 20 pair cable is full and they're adding another 20 pair cable, to serve the new houses?

There's no way of "splitting" and FTTC connection either. You have your own copper pair back to the cabinet.

Edited by deleted (Thu 19-Jan-17 13:52:42)

He said that the green cabinet 750m away was saturated, no more slots, but BT aren't prepared to put in a new cabinet so they are "splitting" our connections to make room for the new houses.

if there are new houses (and depending who the developer is and when they registered

there are 2 things that will have happened

A the developer asked for FTTP and a new fibre feed is was deployed (not using the fibre in the cabinet)

B the developer asked for voice only and will get what that cab provides / or not
(voice is cab is connected to either nearest PCP (regardless of whether ihe enabled or nor) or new pcp (which wont be enabled)


and there is fibre on the pole that wont use any of the fibre that goes into the cab --

to be clear the speed you are getting is consistent with the distance

Do the green boxes look like http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f...

and does the splitter at top of pole look identical to http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f...

It may also look like http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/wp-content/uploads/20... which is still FTTP but using the new deployment method

Whatever happens you will NOT be switched automatically to an FTTP service as the provider will need to be involved and not all of them sell FTTP.

As for 750m and full speed what a load of rubbish for VDSL2.

As for modifying wires, without decent photos impossible to say.

As for 750m and full speed what a load of rubbish for VDSL2.

Completely agree.

In the OP he mentions a 'new cab' for the ten new houses next .... that really isn't going to happen is it.

He also asks 'where do I complain ?' About what exactly ? His perceived issues ?

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

The new additions are on the top of the wiring on the telegraph poles around our property not the new development. They were neat and tidy and now there is a mass bundle on each top going to these little black blocks, they seem to run into the blocks then there is nothing going out of them. Look a right mess.

Generally, the copper at the top of a telegraph pole is terminated in a "DP" (distribution point). They take in a 10-way (or more) cable from the street duct, and separate out into separate cables per property.

Here is a relatively new one: Fairly new copper DP. Old ones can be other shapes (mine is a round one, looking like a fire bell).

Here is a copper DP, with a fibre manifold being added next to it: Copper and fibre.

Are you seeing anything like these?

Sometimes a pole doesn't just exist for the final drop into homes, but is also a route for the distribution cable - which would then run from pole to pole to pole.

In this case, you will see thicker cables running pole-pole, and thinner cables to each house. Sometimes the thicker cable needs to have a joint .... which can add to the mess.

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

He said that the green cabinet 750m away was saturated, no more slots, but BT aren't prepared to put in a new cabinet so they are "splitting" our connections to make room for the new houses.

Maybe unrelated but I noticed today an engineer called round a neighbours who was not in. Then he got his ladders out and was fiddling around with the wire that goes from telegraph pole to neighbours house at house-end. It seems like they are modifying our wires somehow.

Whatever they are doing, it seems to be something relatively unusual and non-standard. Some photos will definitely help, though you will have to load them up to a separate website.

I use https://postimage.io/ for that job.

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

He also said the cabinet is 750m away and so we should get full speed.

FWIW at my old address the cabinet was 1.3km away and I got almost twice the upload speed.

The problem is that distance is not the only aspect that matters - the thickness matters just as much too, as does the amount of interference from neighbouring lines.

The majority of BT's lines are 0.5mm copper. On this stuff, you can get 80/20 speeds out to around 350-400m without interference; speeds can drop below this with a lot of take-up. At 750m, I wouldn't expect more than 40-50Mbps at best.

Some of BT's lines can be thinner - 0.4mm. On this, top speeds are likely to only get 200-250m.

Some of BT's lines are thicker - 0.6mm and 0.9mm. In the case of 0.9mm stuff, the top speeds could go 2-3x the distance: 600-900m

Photo of the modified Huawei FTTC Cabinet, with the obvious extension on the near side, to accommodate the wider back-planes, terminating the PCP to/from FTTC Cabinet.

I suspect that this is a factory modification to a Huawei 288 cabinet shell before erection on site; rather than an on-site modification, given the different widths of the Filter-Link back-plane modules - anyone know for sure?

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/06/bt-open...

There seems to be an error regarding the extra width of "14 mm", given that 1 inch is 25.4 mm.

In the photo, the extension looks about 2.5 to 3 inches wide (62 to 76 mm approximately)

I also question the extra cable pairs. Would "2*100 pairs" not be sufficient to cover 96 potential connections?

None of those boxes look familiar except for a green rectangular box. The poles seem to just have 1-2 connectors on but I think telephone wire.

I saw them out earlier and they were measuring wire, it was blue wire... to the length of the pole up to the houses.

We used to get 3-4 disconnects per day for around 4-10 mins but the speed never drops below 3.2MB/s down.

Since this work we are now getting the same kind of disconnects almost every hour, just had one 15 mins ago. I can't even FTP stuff now because it corrupts the data when the internet drops out halfway through, and I run a business from home.

I guess I will have to ring Zen up about it, they are normally good. We got 6-10 weeks of building work on the house so waiting for that to go. Also our fibre speeds have nearly halfed since this wierd Openreach activity.

When I moved in I did a check on samknows it said the DSLAM was fully filled - no more room, so how can their suddenly be room for 10 more houses?

The worst thing is when you look at the new houses on rightmove etc it says 70MBPS available but that is clearly a lie, they will be lucky to get over 15MBPS now.

Would a "party line" work in those circumstances?

I recall the many complaints about shared lines, being able to break in to the other party's conversation etc.

Cabinets can be extended to house larger line cards, or a second cabinet may have been installed.

Nothing has changed on the exterior of the cabinet


Getting used to seeing this quite often now
http://i.imgur.com/EXJjlyU.png

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

Nothing has changed on the exterior of the cabinet


Getting used to seeing this quite often now
http://i.imgur.com/EXJjlyU.png

Rather than uploading a screen grab to imgur why don't you just go to the pole and take a picture on your phone and upload than to imgur instead! Might help.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

Nothing has changed on the exterior of the cabinet


Getting used to seeing this quite often now
http://i.imgur.com/EXJjlyU.png

Rather than uploading a screen grab to imgur why don't you just go to the pole and take a picture on your phone and upload than to imgur instead! Might help.

I'm wondering what a screen grab of the poster's system clock and nothing else has to do with anything? I can't even imagine why that screen grab even exists.

I'm guessing the loss of network connectivity symbol.

Ah. Could be. I didn't spot that.

I get the same symbol on the occasions where my router gets upset and although it retains sync and PPP, as can be demonstrated through other connected kit, it refuses to pass that through to my computer. A reboot of the computer fixes it.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 02-Feb-17 14:06:18)

Indeed.

Some router stats from the OP including up time would be helpful.

Can't give stats because I use a router then a seperate modem which is locked.

Dropping out every hour or so for 5 mins now.

BT seem to have finished wiring up the new houses and this is now the result.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6023772881.png

Should be getting 48 down and 12 up according to BT line checker.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Feb-17 03:47:21)

Without sync speeds, throughput tests are pretty useless.

So internet went down again earlier and stayed down this time.

I logged into the router and hit reboot, rather than wait for it I just hit X on the browser window.

10 seconds later the internet worked again.

Wondering if this is just the router (which is only working as a router)???

so do you have an address for the new houses or are the been sold / lived in as thet will tell how trhey have been connected

You need to know if the modem is losing sync. If it's not, then it's likely to be a router fault.

I still think this request is outstanding...

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Rather than uploading a screen grab to imgur why don't you just go to the pole and take a picture on your phone and upload than to imgur instead! Might help.

Posting speedtest results is a similar level of usefulness - it might tell you there's a problem, but it does nothing to identify what the cause is.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I still think this request is outstanding...

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Rather than uploading a screen grab to imgur why don't you just go to the pole and take a picture on your phone and upload them to imgur instead! Might help.

Posting speedtest results is a similar level of usefulness - it might tell you there's a problem, but it does nothing to identify what the cause is.

I'm thinking there's got to be a reason he's not giving us actual pictures. We could answer the majority of the questions if he'd just do it.

Even on modems which are locked down the lights usually change to show if DSL signal has been lost

In reply to a post by thesmileyone:

�the engineer I spoke to�said that the green cabinet 750m away was saturated�so they are "splitting" our connections to make room�

My best guess: They�re �pair stealing�. Depending on their age, your houses were probably wired with two pairs from the get-go, to make it easy if a resident ordered a second line. Some or all of those probably connect all the way back to the PCP (although they probably don�t continue on the E-side).

If I�m right, those redundant pairs are now being re-purposed for the new houses, by disconnecting your spare pair at the DP and splicing it to a new multi-core cable that runs to the development. So if you or your neighbour were to order a second line in the future, Openreach would need to find a spare D-side pair at the DP to reconnect it.

Of course, second lines are increasingly rare, given that people don�t much use fax machines, etc.