Looks like I'm on the snr trial but exchange not on list

Evening all. The kids accidentally turned off the Billion 8800NL earlier whilst playing. I just plugged it back in and the stats are interesting in that the SNR's are below 6 for the first time that I've noticed:

Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 4.8 5.5
Attenuation (dB) 19.0 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.6 7.5
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 69181 20456
Rate (Kbps) 68860 19999
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 243 244
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 0 0
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 10 10
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.1128 0.3885
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 18009 5251
D (interleaver depth) 8 4
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 254 255
N (RS codeword size) 254 255
Delay (msec) 0 0
INP (DMT symbol) 47.00 45.00
OH Frames 0 0
OH Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 9640408 2812115
RS Correctable Errors 10000 559
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 36283197 0
Data Cells 234348 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 0 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 33 33
xDSL BER Test Reset

I seem to have gained around 9Mbps down and about 3Mbps up!

It'a weird as my exchange (Tenby SWTB) is not on the trial list I've seen.

Post deleted by RobertoS

Well the snr values have stayed so my exchange must be on the trial. I have noticed that my attainable is lower than my actual:

Attainable Rate (Kbps) 65295 20456
Rate (Kbps) 68860 19999

However, speedtests are coming back at around 66Mbps so guess it's an issue with the modem? Also, looking on MDWS, people with the newer snrs seem to be seeing the same with sync higher than attainable.

That's because attainable is doing its maths assuming 6dB is the lowest margin, so if you go below that things will be a bit odd.

Am tracking cabinets on the 'list' and the speeds otherwise so if the trials get enough people on lower margins we may see the effect. Other changes such as upload tweaks by PlusNet, the up to 52 Mbps Infinity 1 were all visible so no reason once this trial goes to larger volumes we should not see it.

Maybe they've opened the trial wider as I didn't see any Welsh cabs in the last list that was on here.

Looking on MDWS again, almost everyone that has an snr lower than 6 (bar 1 or 2 people) has a sync rate higher than their attainable. Strange.

It's not strange.

The attainable is calculated based on an snr of 6db.

Even if the snr is actually 4.8?

Yes, you're not on the trial unfortunately.

Yes because the attainable is just a basic calculation.

Check out my thread.

So how do you know they are not on the trial? By the same token you might be and the same reason they have this low margin is the same reason you do.

Because the cabinet that my line is connected to is in the trial and the line stats show this, however his don't. On my line, the downstream attainable rate is a lot higher than the rate, this shows that even overheads are present. If the downstream SNR margin was set at 6 dB, but dropped lower because off crosstalk etc. then downstream attainable rate would be lower than the rate.

If you take a look at my line stats on MDWS, you'll see that this is the case.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:10:38)

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Because the cabinet that my line is connected to is in the trial and the line stats show this, however his don't. On my line, the downstream attainable rate is a lot higher than the rate, this shows that even overheads are present. If the downstream SNR margin was set at 6 dB, but dropped lower because off crosstalk etc. then downstream attainable rate would be lower than the rate.

If you take a look at my line stats on MDWS, you'll see that this is the case.

On your line, your attainable is the same as your rate

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:29:40)

At SNRM: 4.6.dB

Which is correct batboy.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:31:41)

Exactly, so it proves the point that the downstream SNR margin is 5 dB on my line.

Thank god you're here, underzone. It seems some members still haven't grasped the way line stats are deciphered.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:33:00)

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Exactly, so it proves the point that the downstream SNR margin is 5 dB on my line.

I don't think it does, as it's changed since you posted. It just shows your line is unstable.

some members still haven't grasped the way line stats are deciphered.

I think you've proved that applies to you

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:35:06)

My line isn't unstable! Check the line stats carefully! I'm baffled by the amount of inaccurate information that you're posting on here. Plus, I've very good knowledge in DSL. You need to think before you post.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 18:42:13)

Batboy, after being confronted by countless knowledgeable members, and having been corrected by staff members multiple times on this forum.

Why do you continue posting [censored]?

Well said. That was my question.

How do you know that the trial has not been expanded? Or a blind trial going on, where people are given no idea they are in it. I know you are certain about your situation, but have seen enough oddities to know that you cannot be sure what Openreach get up to or even what modems are reporting.

Don't have time to keep finding the link to your MDWS stats - not being odd, just don't really have the time.

Suspect your usual combat style approach in happening.

i.e. you are saying they should have said their Target Noise Margin on the downstream is 5dB, and the current margin has wandered down to 4.6dB.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

How do you know that the trial has not been expanded? Or a blind trial going on, where people are given no idea they are in it. I know you are certain about your situation, but have seen enough oddities to know that you cannot be sure what Openreach get up to or even what modems are reporting.

I never said that I knew it hadn't.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Don't have time to keep finding the link to your MDWS stats - not being odd, just don't really have the time.

Well, if you don't have time to look at the line stats, then don't comment as you obviously don't know anything about my line.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 19:23:19)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Suspect your usual combat style approach in happening.

i.e. you are saying they should have said their Target Noise Margin on the downstream is 5dB, and the current margin has wandered down to 4.6dB.

Sorry, are you talking to me?

As for not commenting, perhaps the hint was too subtle - if you want people to look at the stats make it easier, i.e. what is the URL?

Never said I had never looked at your stats, just don't have the time to KEEP looking.

No I was replying to a post by BatBoy, click out of flat mode to expanded mode.

I can't post the URL. You have to log into the website and view the line stats.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

No I was replying to a post by BatBoy, click out of flat mode to expanded mode.

Ok, cheers.

Ah yes, think I saw the image you grabbed out, perhaps time to grab another to make it easier for people to take a look and see the trend over time.

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

No I was replying to a post by BatBoy, click out of flat mode to expanded mode.

Ok, cheers.

Clear from the post headers in Flat Mode as well.

Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Batboy, what do you have to say now looking at my line stats since last resync?

Why didn't you reply to BatBoy's post, not mine? Every post has its own "Reply" button, and some people use the setting in their profile, (see the settings at the bottom of the "My Home" page), to notify them by email of a reply to them.

Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley

Batboy, what do you have to say now looking at my line stats since last resync?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Sorry, that's poor forum software for you.

NO!

It is poor use of excellent (though I accept a bit dated) forum software.

Don't be so cocky. You screwed up. Not the software.

Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Jan-17 17:02:50)

[chuckle]

Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Jan-17 17:12:44)

why you deleted some of your posts?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

why you deleted some of your posts?

They seem to of deleted all replies to Rob.

Paul

I made some point about flat mode and then realised it had already been made so removed it.

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Jan-17 08:24:18)

I made some point about flat mode and then realised it had already been made so removed it.

Hmm huwwatkins - are you using 2 accounts to comment on the same thread i.e WilliamGrimsley and huwwatkins ??

In reply to a post by huwwatkins:

I made some point about flat mode and then realised it had already been made so removed it.

Sorry I don't understand. As far as I can see this is your first and only post in this thread.
What point about flat mode were you trying to make?

And was made as a reply to a post of mine that was nothing to do with Flat Mode. Very odd.

Also his first post for six days anywhere on this site.

It's pretty obvious that huwwatkins is WilliamGrimsley - obviously forgot he was logged in as his alter ego

I was going to make a point that they might be using flat mode hence 'replying' to the wrong people but RobertOS and Mr Saffron had already noted it so I removed it. virtually all other forums I use are default flat so this takes some extra thinking time when replying rather than just tacking your answer on the end.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Jan-17 08:16:02)

No - no idea who that other guy is. That's easily verified don't be so paranoid. I loiter on this site and only post infrequently but as you can check I've been registered since 2004.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Jan-17 08:12:46)

Yes, I see what you mean.

Anyway, it looks like the snr trial is no longer a trial and is being rolled out

That's certainly jumping to conclusions. I've had 3, 4, 5dB SNRM dozens of times. It doesn't mean it's part of any trial. There's recent OR documents showing DLM won't be rolling this out till April.

Without seeing stats at the time of connection and how the SNRM & attainable change after that I'd be very cautious about concluding it's a target margin. Especially on a line from an exchange that isn't part of a trial. That's where William's line is easier to judge. His stats are recording 24/7 on MyDSLWebStats.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

That's certainly jumping to conclusions. I've had 3, 4, 5dB SNRM dozens of times. It doesn't mean it's part of any trial. There's recent OR documents showing DLM won't be rolling this out till April.

Without seeing stats at the time of connection and how the SNRM & attainable change after that I'd be very cautious about concluding it's a target margin. Especially on a line from an exchange that isn't part of a trial.

There's no jumping to conclusions. On the contrary, that's the whole point of this thread

Was there any kind of conclusion drawn from this thread after the squabbles? As my line has done something similar to the OP the past few days, fed by PCP102 Basingstoke. My SNRM is fluctuating at 2-3dB, connection rate has gone up to ~76Mbps from a usual low-mid 60s, with speed test results above 70Mbps proving the speed increase. The stats from my Draytek Vigor 130 are:

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 76879000 bps US Actual Rate : 19999000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 62673736 bps US Attainable Rate : 28277000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 15 dB Cur SNR Margin : 2 dB
DS actual PSD : 7. 3 dB US actual PSD : 13. 4 dB
NE CRC Count : 1397 FE CRC Count : 457
NE ES Count : 539 FE ES Count : 355
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-04-03-00-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 19 dB Far SNR Margin : 13 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da48c
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

You're not on a lower target SNRM
You've resynced before all your crosstalkers, syncing at the level you would if they weren't there.
Then all the crosstalkers have connected, dropping your SNRM down low. That's why your attainable is what it usually is, but the sync is much higher. If you were on a lower SNRM target then the attainable would also have stayed high.
Running a program such as DslStats helps spotting this kind of thing, as you would see that you synced at around 6dB. It then drops as crosstalkers connect. This happens all the time after power cuts or DSLAM reboots. I find the Huawei HG612 to be particularly quick at syncing. When I used the HG612 I used to see the above more frequently than I do with my Zyxel.

In reply to a post by olicuk:

Was there any kind of conclusion drawn from this thread after the squabbles? As my line has done something similar to the OP the past few days, fed by PCP102 Basingstoke. My SNRM is fluctuating at 2-3dB, connection rate has gone up to ~76Mbps from a usual low-mid 60s, with speed test results above 70Mbps proving the speed increase.

My line too has done similar and now my sync speed has improved by 4Mbps and my SNRM target is now 5dB