2 FTTP connections ?

Hi

For various reasons, we've got two internet connections, one FTTP and the other is ADSL2+

I'm considering updating the ADSL2+ to the cheapest FTTP connection, but can I actually have a second FTTP connection (obviously we've got 2 phone lines)?

Why would you need it?

For resiliiencee reasons?

It should be possible, but personally, I wouldn't. You could end up denying a neighbour an FTTP connection if you were to take up another fibre from the DP.

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Apr-17 15:50:13)

Yes, you can.

It's very simple and does not require an engineer. Activation is the same or next day and the second port will be active on the ONT.

The only thing I am not sure about is whether you can have two different ISPs (if that's what you want).

In reply to a post by lee111s:

It should be possible, but personally, I wouldn't. You could end up denying a neighbour an FTTP connection if you were to take up another fibre from the DP.

A single fibre can run two (or in theory more) connections. All the ISP needs to do is activate the second port in the ONT, no need for an engineer.

I have two connections on my FTTP - one 80/20 and the other 330/30.

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Apr-17 15:57:09)

Every day is a school day! Cheers

Haha, I could say the same about you teaching me!

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

In reply to a post by lee111s:

It should be possible, but personally, I wouldn't. You could end up denying a neighbour an FTTP connection if you were to take up another fibre from the DP.

A single fibre can run two (or in theory more) connections. All the ISP needs to do is activate the second port in the ONT, no need for an engineer.

I have two connections on my FTTP - one 80/20 and the other 330/30.

I was wondering that myself, not that I would do that.
So you would just have two connected routers to Ports 1, 2, that's cool, so in theory you could have up to 4 connections assuming it allows it and that your mad enough to do it.

Mind you that would be good for 4 apartment flats

So you wouldn't require a second phone package, I know the second FVA also uses the same fibre cable.

But that's still good to know.

Paul

In reply to a post by lee111s:

Every day is a school day! Cheers

Ditto, I did wonder why the other 3 ports were there with just the single fibre going into the ONT.

Paul

It has to be really rare though. I have no idea if main stream ISPs would even support it (I only had mine activated as a trial for Plusnet).

I can perhaps only see it of being of interest to businesses who might want an individual connection for large data transmission.

I only found it out when I was asked by Plusnet to trial something. At the time, I thought it would need an engineer, but was told it was already live

When Openreach blow the fibre, there are 4 fibres. Only one is connected up and 3 spare fibres are left in situ. Hypothetically speaking, you could have a heck of a lot of connections from a single property.

Many thanks

Activating another port would solve the issue of where to put a 2nd ONT, and yes, currently looking at another ISP although the main point for us is the requirement of a fixed IP, the monthly usage will only be around 20 - 25GB a month.

Does anyone know it the business prices on the BT Business site include VAT?

Cheers.

Only 20 - 25 GB/month? That seems very low for a FTTP connection. I wouldn't see the point in buying a FTTP connection if I was only going to use that much data!

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Apr-17 20:04:25)

Are you sure about that Andy ?

Only come across one property which had two separate services, one res and one bis..... two separate ONTE's on two separate fibres.

I am aware that the ONTE can provide different accounts, but not sure Openreach can configure their end.

Always happy to be corrected though.

I have two connections on my FTTP - one 80/20 and the other 330/30.

Sorry didn't read the whole thread ....... How did you wrangle that ?

Horses for courses I guess.

We've has FTTP for 15 months and the longest if was out was an hour. The copper connection speeds and the quality of the connection fluctuate so much it's a pain in the backside to manage. The ISP are great, their support is top notch, but I don't want to have to reboot MODEM's, mess around with SNR and have to cycle through my backup MODEM's every month or so to make sure they still work.

I have clients that require a static IP for VPN connection, residential BT doesn't do that and the ISP's that provide FTTP here is very limited - BT & Zen is all I can find for sure.

Ah, I understand. Is FTTC available to you?

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Apr-17 20:13:03)

Business packages should be plus VAT

No, FTTP or ADSL2+

FTTC is a different fibre delivery method.

Thank you. So the £28 on the website is £33.60 after VAT - they don't make it clear although I had assumed that was the case.

Next question do I have to have a BT phone line to take the service ?

Yes, I know that. But, it makes sense now as to why you've purchased it.

One was a test (some internal changes within Plusnet and they wanted to check reliability/performance).

From the FTTP handbook:

The product is being deployed on the basis of a single ONT at the premises, allowing four Communications Providers (CPs) to deliver service over separate Ethernet ports

Quite cool how this can be done, although it's going to be so rare anyone takes a second connection.

Replying to myself I know, but just as an update, I submitted an order with Zen on Friday and they person I spoke to confirmed that I won't need another ONT but one of the other ports will be activated. Line may even be activated before next weekend, but I'll not hold them to that

Well as far as I can see there is no hardware to be installed, so in theory there really shouldn't be a delay in installing and activating an additional FTTP connection on an already installed FTTP connection.

It should just be a matter of pressing a key.

Unless I am missing something here.

Paul

Out of curiosity how does the underlying 'line rental' work when you add another ISP?

Given you have a 'phone line' rental to pay on the first ISP - does adding another ISP to your ONT add another 'line' you have to pay?

I'd have bet it would... but seems a bit cheeky to be made to pay twice...

Yep, activation is next day on the wholesale end.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Yep, activation is next day on the wholesale end.

I thought it would be.

Like somebody else has said, what about the line rental, how would that work on a second FTTP connection, would that still be needed?

Not that I need to get another connection, just wondering that's all.

Paul

Unlikely, as you're already "renting" the line. Having multiple services on it doesn't increase the likelyhood of a repair needed.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

Unlikely, as you're already "renting" the line. Having multiple services on it doesn't increase the likelyhood of a repair needed.

So how would it work is say my main FTTP connection is with BT along with the phone line being via FVA and then I get a second FTTP connection with Zen.

Zen have two price ranges, one with a phone line and one without, sadly both prices are almost the same price, so you are in fact paying the same price, so you get shafted when you choose without phone line.

That's what I am referring to.

Paul

You should only need one underlying WLR/MPF/FVA on a line.

I think you would struggle to find many ISPs that would sell you a FTTP only service though (it's quite limited already!), but AAISP is definitely one that should.

Last update.

Went live just after 8am this morning, port 2 of the ONT now carries a Zen connection, so temporarily I've got 3 connection, 2 FTTP and 1 ADSL over one phone line, I'll cancel it once email and VPN's are copied over to Zen.

Not bad going, just about 3 business days

Surely if one FTTP goes down the other is likely to do the same? Whereas the ADSL over copper could well continue to work.

GPON - so once you reach the manifold likely that even two lines would be over the same fibre, and even if you used two fibres in the final drop they'd usually be in the same cable.

So two ONT and two fibres, would probably only be diverse for the final drop into the property, if there was an insistence on different drop fibre. Even if you had diverse fibre you'd also need to go to two different headends...i.e. diversity adds to the complexity massively.

FTTP removes the issues of reliability that DSL and radio signals have, so should be more reliable, but still prone to the car accident hitting pole, or fire destroying a chamber e.g. accident leaking petrol fire.

For physical fibre issues yes.

Using 2 different backhaul suppliers would protect against one having issues I guess.

But we know the posters are talking about a single ONT. Probably on a single fibre from the drop.

Yes, it's the single fibre that was connected almost 18 months ago.

The 2nd connection is NOT about redundancy. If it was I'd agree with you, but it's not so your comment is irrelevant to my use case. If worst comes to worst we've good 4G coverage, although no static IP for extended periods would be difficult we'd survive.

2.5Mbps - 3.5Mbps (and 1Mbps up) on ADSL whilst usable most of the time becomes painful for large file transfers.

In the time we've had FTTP, it's gone down twice for any significant period of time. I ignore the 5 - 10 minute outages while the FTTP roll out was being completed. The longest was 1 hour, solved by turning the ONT off and on again Since January 2016 we've not had a single outage that has impacted us (or shown up on our monitor), where as I've had weeks of noise, connection drops, and other problems with ADSL.

Obviously point was poorly communicated, but even if they had a second fibre, it would only be diverse until its reached the manifold and even then probably just a spare fibre in the same tube/bundle blown to home.