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Afternoon all,
I'm truly at my wits-end now.
I live on a new build estate and was the last house of phase1 built.
They then built 3 houses opposite me and then started building phase 2.
The 3 houses opposite had copper lines installed and my connection went from 37Mb down to 22Mb (it continuously gets slower every few days and my noise margin forever increases).
I've had Openreach onsite 5+ times and everytime it goes back to normal before the DSLAM starts to reduce it again.
One of the houses now reports that they aren't suitable for FTTC.
At the same time Openreach have also installed their new version of WBC FTTP for phase 2 which my new neighbour directly next door is using.
Openreach engineers onsite have said worst case scenario I'd need 7m of moleing to connect to the duct outside their house.
It would solve all my issues but can I get an ISP like BT to manually raise the order for a new line to it ? Nope... they just keep saying my cabinet doesn't support it.
(WBC FTTP uses aggregation nodes and connectors straight to the exchange).
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Someone has to live on the boundary, so if the quirk of roll out means you are on the edge, then you need to fund a custom network rearrangement, i.e. pay full cost for that 7m of dig.
Andrew
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Second what has already been said, you would need to self fund this. A provider will not be funding it as that is not how new builds work.
With a new build the developer chooses the service they want from openreach.
The developer did not opt for FTTP for your phase, hence ISPs are not offering it. For Phase 2, they have opted in for FTTP, hence ISPs offer it.
The fault here lies with the developer not funding FTTP on your phase.
Regarding speeds that is very common due to crosstalk, and very little can be done. Your line will always go back to the speeds unless the neighbours disconnect their service (unlikely).
Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 19-Apr-17 16:49:56)
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Afternoon and thanks for the response.
I'm aware of cross-talk and have generally witnessed drops of 10-20%... however a drop of close to 50% points to something else.
I'm totally aware that I'd have to pay the costs of the 7m duct and don't mind doing so.
I've contact Openreach since posting this via the Network Rearrangement form and hopefully they'll respond to myself... however their general practice is to not deal with residents directly. Which brings me back to how do I order this as ISPs are refusing to place the order for a new line and site survey on my behalf ?
Thanks and regards
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Apr-17 17:00:42)
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As an alternative if all else fails perhaps you could get a connection installed to your neighbour and just run an ethernet cable between your houses?
Or if he is on 330mb that's more than enough for anyone perhaps you could do that without even getting a new connection and contribute half his costs..
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7m of moleing was mentioned - that is just a couple of hours work plus ducting, or te OP could dig and install BT ducting himself over that distance. Total cost will be quite low which ever way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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your only option will be FOD and that will be back from the aggregation node
the 7 m information is disinformation at the highest level
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As you were advised on the BT forum, a line has to be drawn somewhere.
You were advised to contact the builder. Have you done so?
I still think you have little chance of getting this, but I'd like to see how it pans out.
Failing all else, as suggested above, I'd ask the neighbour to order a second FTTP connection and Ethernet from their house to yours...
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There's absolutely nothing you will be able to do here. OpenReach don't just let you mole yourself over a boundary. I have no idea why that is being suggested. ISP's certainly can't order anything like this.
You would need to contact the developer of the site and see what they will agree to with OpenReach.
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So... progress... kind of...
BT Openreachs Network Relocation team responded stating that I need a telecoms provider to manually raise a request for a new line requesting for it to be connected to the aggregation node.
Unfortunately BT Retail say they can't specify or request anything other than a new copper line and don't have access to add any other details to the order.
The latter part confuses me as if it was manually raised they'd be able to enter those details in the application.
(I'm still waiting on a response from the developers of our site)
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So... progress... kind of...
BT Openreachs Network Relocation team responded stating that I need a telecoms provider to manually raise a request for a new line requesting for it to be connected to the aggregation node.
In other words, the only pure fibre service you can order at present is Fibre On Demand (FTTPoD) which will cost you 1000's. Your best hope of getting a result is through the developer.
Edited by deleted (Mon 24-Apr-17 11:55:39)
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1000's ?
Maybe with FoD but FoD2 places myself in BandA which currently carries a £84 charge to the provider from Openreach.
I expect a markup but not over x10.
Anyways... still waiting on the developer to respond.
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Got the link to that FoD2 price list with Band A at £84 install
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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1000's ?
Maybe with FoD but FoD2 places myself in BandA which currently carries a £84 charge to the provider from Openreach.
I expect a markup but not over x10.
Anyways... still waiting on the developer to respond.
Even if you live on top of the aggregation node, you will still need to pay £360 in monthly service charges on a 3 year min term for FTTPoD so it will cost you nearly 13k in total.
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I'm not sure FoD2 is live.
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Sorry MrS... you're right... my area doesn't qualify for that cost and it was £88.
However... normal BandA is £350... still not 1000's.
FoD2 is active as they have been connecting those around me with pull ropes and connectors.
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Still think you are confusing the native product and FoD2, hence asking for the link to the page you are getting your figures from.
Native GEA-FTTP is the one where the checker at https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-g... says you can have an Ultrafast FTTP service, that checker NEVER mentions FoD (version 1 or version 2)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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However... normal BandA is £350... still not 1000's.
Add on the Openreach £750 (connection fee) to £350, plus vat, plus isp's markup, and you will end up paying around the £2k mark even for a Band A property.
99.99999% chance that those getting connected around you are ordering the native FTTP product.
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Sorry MrS... I may well be confused but am trying to make sense of what the OR engineers onsite have said (and shown) in conjunction with other information (Ultrafast Checker, ADSL Checker etc) and what the Network team said.
Essentially they aren't blowing fibre here... they are just pulling and then connecting without splicing. I was under the impression that's the method in FoD2 as it speeds up delivery and dramatically reduces costs (video on the OR site).
Our cabinet doesn't support FTTP but FoD is available for my address to the nearest aggregation node literally a 20s walk from my door (I presume it would go to one of the near splitters, from ADSL Address Checker).
If the native FTTP here uses the same methods as FoD2 then surely any other FoD install would also be FoD2 ?
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FoD2 may use the connectorised technology you are seeing, but what you are seeing is native GEA-FTTP, but as this is not what you are getting or have, you MUST order a fibre on demand product (v1, 2 or v9999 who cares) without ordering the FoD version with its higher pricing you will not get it.
So what page are you getting your pricing from, and can then clarify things for you.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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If the native FTTP here uses the same methods as FoD2 then surely any other FoD install would also be FoD2 ?
Correct, if you order FoD chances are they will use the latest deployment methods such as connectorised fibre with no (or very little) need for splicing.
However the harsh reality still stands: you will need to pay 1000's for FoD. Current Openreach FoD pricing does not differentiate between deployment methods - only on how far you are from the nearest AG node. I suggest you get in touch with fluidone.com if you are serious about going down the FoD route. They are currently the only ISP selling Openreach based FoD.
Edit: Mr S beat me to it
Edited by deleted (Mon 24-Apr-17 13:17:31)
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It doesn't work like this though.
Every FTTP build has to be planned and designed in detail to cover certain properties. Adding new properties to existing infrastructure is not a simple case of just connecting it up, because you're adding additional properties which were not part of the original plans. You have to redesign the network in most cases, increasing capacity.
There will be lots of examples around the country where one house has FTTP and a next door neighbour cannot get it (in theory, a FTTP build has to start and end somewhere). It would be such a complicated system for that next door neighbour to submit a request to get FTTP, the design, planning and then build phases.
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I'm basing my costs on the wholesale prices from
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...
Expecting a markup but being hopeful on a price reduction due to the conn tech used on site.
I'm in a catch 22 and really don't know how much longer I can cope with unstable internet... there's nothing quiet like uploads failing at 4am and having to restart a deployment whilst on a deadline.
(It was fine until OR/Kelly connected the 3 houses opposite me, one of which can't even get superfast... this was over 3 months ago and I've got OR engineer number 7 on Wednesday)
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Okay so you do have the FoD price page at least.
So if you are Band A then its £750+£250+VAT plus provider mark up e.g. router, their time in liasing with Openreach etc, and premium as so little competition to provide.
Then three years of £1,188 + VAT, and as a consumer you cannot sign up to a three year contract (Ofcom 2 year limit), so need to be a business or some other trickery. This only gets you a connection to the point where Openreach handover to the provider at a local large exchange, so you need to pay the backhaul pricing too, which will also take into account the cost of paying for a suitable GEA-Link at the exchange. Hence why prices others mention seem so high.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Maybe with FoD but FoD2 places myself in BandA which currently carries a £84 charge to the provider from Openreach.
I'm basing my costs on the wholesale prices from
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...
But there's no mention of £84 in construction charges for a Band A property on that page. I would love to know where you got the £84 figure from!
Edited by deleted (Mon 24-Apr-17 13:41:14)
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It doesn't matter if your neighbour has FTTP or FoD, there is no discount for you ordering FoD.
Your best bet is to talk to the developer and see what they can agree with Openreach. The fact that you already have FTTC means you are going to have an uphill struggle. I know someone who is in a new build in an original WBC-FTTP trial area and has been waiting nearly 3 years to get FTTP.
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That link is the current FTTPoD price list, not FoD2. There's no mention of the £84 install you quoted. The minimum is £1100 charge by Openreach to the retailer or wholesaler who then add a profit margin, plus a retailer one if they buy from a wholesaler, plus their backhaul provision costs. Plus Vat which you may be able to recoup.
Then a monthly rental cost for three years of something over £100 per month. I think I have seen £300pm mentioned for the reaslistic pricing for someone with such speeds. The slowest supplied is the 300Mbps.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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That's because I already corrected myself... (its an offer for low speed areas).
As for a business... being a Software developer in the evenings I actually do have a registered business.
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Odd that FTTPoD isn't available to him though Andy? Might it just be another database error?
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Edited by RobertoS (Mon 24-Apr-17 13:43:10)
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Better only use it for the business then ...  . I assume personal use is still taxable? Even your current FTTC. Or am I out of date?
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Edited by RobertoS (Mon 24-Apr-17 13:45:40)
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You aren't in a low speed area.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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You mean the OP here? On the BT forum, it shows his address can get FoD.
The guy I know is in a trial area in Milton Keynes and there is only FTTP, no FTTC. Long story short, the developer did not pay for (or ask for) the additional ducting to be connected up to the FTTP network when building the houses. The cost for the 3 homes to do the work is deemed too high, so he's stuck without paying for it himself.
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+ the offer finished months ago
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Tbh... I don't claim my current FTTC as an expense.
I'll try my developer again but unfortunately they don't have a great track record in responding (despite still building houses onsite).
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There is no official process or system to rearrange the network, like you want.
Looking at the BT Forums, it seems that your neighbours with GEA-FTTP only have FTTP and there is no copper service for them at all. This will be a completely different build and configuration to what you have.
You really need to talk to your developer and try to put some pressure on them to see if something can be arranged with Openreach.
It is extremely rare for Openreach to make exceptions in cases like this though. Aside from the complications of adjusting the FTTP network to include your property, you could open the floodgates from every neighbour without FTTP asking to have the FTTP network extended to them as well.
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Thanks for both replies Andy. I mean the OP here. I had forgotten he had already posted here that he can get FTTPoD. His later references to £84 installation and then his link to the standard FTTPoD page which he is misreading threw me  .
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Tbh... I don't claim my current FTTC as an expense.
I'll try my developer again but unfortunately they don't have a great track record in responding (despite still building houses onsite). It seems the developer is not going to be interested. You have FTTC and can get FTTPoD, simples.
It isn't his problem that your 37Mbps has dropped to 22Mbps or lower, which may or may be a fault but could also be cross-talk. No developer is going to fork out the FTTPoD cost for you to solve that problem, or fund the huge monthly rental for three years before it reverts to standard FTTP pricing with whatever retailer you use.
BT Consumer do not offer FTTPoD. Marketing policy.
I don't know if BT Business do or not, have you tried them? I expect they don't else the people on Fluidone might had used it.
Which is why you are banging your head against a brick wall and getting impossible suggestions from engineers who have nothing to do with any of this. They only see the technical side.
Standard FTTPoD at the price shown on the page you linked to, and didn't see the basic £750 in the first table which is a base cost. The £350 column lists the additional distance-related charge. Then whatever your supplier charges to supply a service over the "dead" line Openreach connect.
Edit: Oh, and that price list is "Subject to survey" which may result in higher charges.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Edited by RobertoS (Mon 24-Apr-17 14:13:08)
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Did you get anywhere with the builder? Otherwise if you don't want to spend a small fortune on FoD then bonding 2 or more FTTC lines might be a cheaper option.
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Amazingly after chasing for 6months and not giving up I've recieved an apology from our developer and their alterations/consent form to sign and return for them to pass onto Openreach.
Not sure what it is technically as it will use the same infrastructure as my neighbour who has WBC FTTP... but it's being arranged due to my request.
Either way... feeling slightly better about things.
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That's excellent news
Has the developer or OR given you a timescale as to when the work will be completed?
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Not yet... only recieved the form today.
I'll keep you all updated.
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