EO line = no hope for decent speeds? only lowly adsl2?

went on:
https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-g...

to check and from a few years ago the only thing these sites adds is that now it tells me i'm on an exchange only line.

Exchange name: Liverpool Central
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: -
Technology: Pending - EO Line

with no cable around either then I guess i'm stuck with slow as hell internet for the next decade and beyond?

Some of us with EO lines are stuck on ADSL, so you are relatively lucky to have ADSL2!

i know there are worse off but it doesn't help.

is there any hope of getting decent speeds or are we stuck waiting on the next tech to come along (and possibly get sidestepped there too)

i don't get the reason why it's not done. i mean i read that they have to make 2 cabs instead of one but considering they'd be side by side would it be that hard? also, aren't most EO lines in city centre areas? I have buildings full of people as well as law firms, accountants, engineers etc and no cable so BT is their only option.

surely that would give a decent ROI over installing cabs for fewer people in less densely populated areas which are consumer only (not business)

Hard? Not really. Expensive? Yes.

In fact, EO line re-arrangement always needs enough of a subsidy that it has only happened within BDUK projects.

Businesses aren't projected as having as high a level of demand as residential, so don't end up giving an improved ROI for fibre. They don't help much.

Looking at codelook, it seems that Liverpool Central is almost entirely devoid of FTTC - even if you already have a cabinet. 40 cabinets, but only 4 have FTTC upgrades, 1 of which is BDUK-subsidised.

so i'm SOL then? stuck on ancient tech.

god this country sucks at internet. no wonder we don't have any kind of silicon valley. in the US (and the legal monopolies they have) even verizon gives synchronous gigabit in some areas.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In fact, EO line re-arrangement always needs enough of a subsidy that it has only happened within BDUK projects.

While I agree that there needs enough of a subsidy I don't fully agree it only happens with BDUK Projects.

There were several EO Blocks on my Exchange got given a new PCP and then not long after a Fibre cabinet, but these were done as part of LEP (London Extension Programme) and LEP PLUS.
This has happened 3 to 4 times now on my exchange.

The remaining EO Blocks on my exchange will probably be moved over to nearby cabinets between now and mid 2018, not long after the due by dates for the remaining cabinets on my exchange as part of the Commercial Project.

TBH I did think that the Commercial Project was finished when I saw LEP starting to show up.

However BT told me on the phone (NOT the over seas team) that they are still running / finishing off the commercial projects that got put on hold a few years back.

They went on to say that all remaining areas on my exchange (that were down to be commissioned in 2011) are all currently being surveyed and have a due by date of Feb-Mar 2018 or sooner depending on what stage the areas were at when it was put on hold.

So I am assuming the funding for those was already allocated for those back then.

Paul

I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but if it is saying "Pending - EO Line" i'm sure that means it is in scope? If it wasn't you'd get a message saying "Exploring Solutions".

In reply to a post by dippylicious:

I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but if it is saying "Pending - EO Line" i'm sure that means it is in scope? If it wasn't you'd get a message saying "Exploring Solutions".

As far as I can see going by checks in the past, when it says "Pending EO Line" it has then later on gone over to a cabinet.

This still doesn't mean they are in scope of getting fibre, that EO Line might get routed to a cabinet that might be too far to get FTTC, or it might get routed to a cabinet that has no free Fibre ports free, or maybe it will be moved over to a brand new cabinet along with other EO Line Blocks.

So the "Pending EO Line" is just possibly the move to a PCP Cabinet and if the OP line is stating that, they will have to wait for that process to happen first and then go on then from there.

But at this stage we don't know the postcode for the EO Line Block(s) so until them this is all just guess work on what is going to happen.

Paul

In the UK you can get Gigabit in some areas too

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

In the UK you can get Gigabit in some areas too

If you are lucky enough to live in flats or a new building estate still under development, if you live in an old house, there is no chance in getting that, I have already checked back in 2014.

But yeah, the UK can get those speeds, so I agree with that

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 24-Jun-17 09:23:57)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by dippylicious:

I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but if it is saying "Pending - EO Line" i'm sure that means it is in scope? If it wasn't you'd get a message saying "Exploring Solutions".

As far as I can see going by checks in the past, when it says "Pending EO Line" it has then later on gone over to a cabinet.

This still doesn't mean they are in scope of getting fibre, that EO Line might get routed to a cabinet that might be too far to get FTTC, or it might get routed to a cabinet that has no free Fibre ports free, or maybe it will be moved over to a brand new cabinet along with other EO Line Blocks.

So the "Pending EO Line" is just possibly the move to a PCP Cabinet and if the OP line is stating that, they will have to wait for that process to happen first and then go on then from there.

But at this stage we don't know the postcode for the EO Line Block(s) so until them this is all just guess work on what is going to happen.

Paul

so you think they might actually build a cab between me and the exchange? That would allow fibre if they then added a 2nd cab?

In reply to a post by tomos:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by dippylicious:

I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but if it is saying "Pending - EO Line" i'm sure that means it is in scope? If it wasn't you'd get a message saying "Exploring Solutions".

As far as I can see going by checks in the past, when it says "Pending EO Line" it has then later on gone over to a cabinet.

This still doesn't mean they are in scope of getting fibre, that EO Line might get routed to a cabinet that might be too far to get FTTC, or it might get routed to a cabinet that has no free Fibre ports free, or maybe it will be moved over to a brand new cabinet along with other EO Line Blocks.

So the "Pending EO Line" is just possibly the move to a PCP Cabinet and if the OP line is stating that, they will have to wait for that process to happen first and then go on then from there.

But at this stage we don't know the postcode for the EO Line Block(s) so until them this is all just guess work on what is going to happen.

Paul

so you think they might actually build a cab between me and the exchange? That would allow fibre if they then added a 2nd cab?

Well at this point in time I have no clue, but Pending normally means stuff is happening or about to.

But like I said this doesn't mean you will get fibre, there is many factors here, and moving from an EO Line is one of them.

So maybe.

Paul

yeah but fibre was pending for the exchange for ages iirc. pushed back years.

need to lean more on my phones 4g. just wish i could download steam games on there

Pending for an exchange means nothing, since this can apply to just one existing cabinet and ignore another dozen cabinets and EO areas.

Or in various rural areas with the smaller providers of which Gigaclear is the largest.

Hello Tomos

Just checked your postcode to see what EO Line Block you are currently on, which is currently EO Block 30 and the nearest cabinet near you is Cabinet 22.

So if you were to be moved over to another cabinet and not a newly built one, I would say it makes sense to move you to that cabinet assuming there is space for all the EO Lines in that block.

Just checked Cabinet 22 and it currently seems to have about ~61 lines on it, your EO Block has about 261 lines spread up over 6 postcodes, so its still possible they "might" all get moved to cabinet 22.

Or you might all get given a new cabinet installed, only BT will know what will be done.

I can see that BT are doing a few jobs throughout July to September doing "Renew / Raise / Lower Frame and Cover on in fw" in the area of your EO Block and close to cabinet 22, whether this is anything to do with fibre I cannot tell.

Apart from that, I cannot see anything else.

Paul

thanks matey.

hmm if this were american gods then i'd imagine there would be an embodiment of BT.W with all the praying going on for better internet

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Or in various rural areas with the smaller providers of which Gigaclear is the largest.

Ah, ok, well I know I contacted a few including hyperoptics with them all saying something like the following:

In regards to the installations as a business we target either high-rise apartment buildings or large developments with multiple dwellings. We would be looking at a minimum of 80 flats so as to make our installation feasible.

Which even though it was annoying at the time, it did make sense.

Where as BT won't install FTTP into Flats, that I think might be FTTn and then use possible fibre or copper to each flat.

Which also makes sense, can you imagine a BT Engineer turning up to install FTTP into a tower block, slowly looking up and saying screw that LOL

Paul

Wrong on BT not installing to flats, there are various apartment blocks where FTTP is available from them now. Usually just new build for BT with flats.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Wrong on BT not installing to flats, there are various apartment blocks where FTTP is available from them now. Usually just new build for BT with flats.

Ah, well this came from a BT Fibre Engineer, but they were referring to old block of flats, so I should of mentioned that in my post.

Paul

Mr.S is correct though Paul.

I've fitted FTTP in flats many times .... The issue is wether there has been fibre lead ins run to the flats from a DP node. Once this is done, it's easy enough.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Mr.S is correct though Paul.

I've fitted FTTP in flats many times .... The issue is wether there has been fibre lead ins run to the flats from a DP node. Once this is done, it's easy enough.

I agree, but these flats might only have copper wires all underground going into them, and as far as I could see back in end of 2011 when it was all being first installed before the halt, I could see that nearly all chambers near phone poles had their own DP, sadly there is no phone poles near the flats, so I am unaware of any DP near the flats.

Like I already said, I am only going by what the Fibre Engineer said when they installed my FTTP back in October to November last year, I enquired about the rest of my road all houses and a side road mostly flats which are on my PCP, where the engineers said they wont get FTTP due to they are flats.

So maybe there is no nodes near them, I know there are a couple of chambers near them, so its possible, but I cannot be sure.

They did mention the only way they would get fibre would either be FTTC or if they installed a single fibre to each block and install some equipment in each block where it splits up to each flat (I think there was mention of a node, but we were talking about a lot of other stuff at the time), then it bucketed down with rain and I went inside and let them install my fibre.

Paul

Hi Tomos.

Actually, you can get a dedicated 4G router if you can get a good 4G signal - see this forum thread: Thread in Mobile Broadband forum.

So, then you *could* use a 4G connection for your PCs and other devices too. I use it as a "turbo boost" for my slow ADSL (not even ADSL2) connection on a long-ish rural EO line, and it helps a lot.

The only thing then is to wait for a good offer on Data SIMs with a reasonable data allowance.

It's not as good as a speedy FTTC/FTTP connection obviously (especially regarding data caps - the speeds can be good though) - but it could "tide you over" while you wait for better internet connectivity (plus, is a good backup for ADSL/ADSL2).

Kind regards,

Adam.

In reply to a post by AdamInTheSticks:

Hi Tomos.

Actually, you can get a dedicated 4G router if you can get a good 4G signal - see this forum thread: Thread in Mobile Broadband forum.

So, then you *could* use a 4G connection for your PCs and other devices too. I use it as a "turbo boost" for my slow ADSL (not even ADSL2) connection on a long-ish rural EO line, and it helps a lot.

The only thing then is to wait for a good offer on Data SIMs with a reasonable data allowance.

It's not as good as a speedy FTTC/FTTP connection obviously (especially regarding data caps - the speeds can be good though) - but it could "tide you over" while you wait for better internet connectivity (plus, is a good backup for ADSL/ADSL2).

Kind regards,

Adam.

hi,

i'm with 3 so unlimited at the moment but can only use the data allowance from the phone not as an AP etc.

In my area BT moved several hundred EO lines to cabinets as part of the Fastershire BDUK project. However, they won't move the remaining hundred or so EO lines as they wouldn't get >24Mbps so BDUK won't pay to have them moved.
Which is annoying, as I'd get 18Mbps, which would be a big improvement..

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

While I agree that there needs enough of a subsidy I don't fully agree it only happens with BDUK Projects.

There were several EO Blocks on my Exchange got given a new PCP and then not long after a Fibre cabinet, but these were done as part of LEP (London Extension Programme) and LEP PLUS.
This has happened 3 to 4 times now on my exchange.

OK, but you have to admit the magic word in there - London. No other city seems to have gained from the extra pot of money that fed into LEP, even though it was originally touted as for 30 cities.

That's not helpful to the likes of the OP. I was rather surprised about just how little of Liverpool Central is covered, even by BDUK. And it isn't because of VM cover.

Still, it is good to see EO lines starting to get seen in commercial plans.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

TBH I did think that the Commercial Project was finished when I saw LEP starting to show up.

However BT told me on the phone (NOT the over seas team) that they are still running / finishing off the commercial projects that got put on hold a few years back.

They went on to say that all remaining areas on my exchange (that were down to be commissioned in 2011) are all currently being surveyed and have a due by date of Feb-Mar 2018 or sooner depending on what stage the areas were at when it was put on hold.

So I am assuming the funding for those was already allocated for those back then.

I just took a gander at the plans for Ilford (right?), and there's an impressive amount of work planned in for phase 18a and b, that no longer gets labeled LEP. I imagine that the changes made to takeup predictions that lead to bigger clawback in BDUK also make more viable cabinets in non-bduk places like London.

Or, as you say, it was already budgeted. And perhaps redrawing FTTP coverage just took a back seat.

In reply to a post by sheephouse:

In my area BT moved several hundred EO lines to cabinets as part of the Fastershire BDUK project. However, they won't move the remaining hundred or so EO lines as they wouldn't get >24Mbps so BDUK won't pay to have them moved.
Which is annoying, as I'd get 18Mbps, which would be a big improvement..

You might get moved over once the USO applies. Or if LR-VDSL jumps out of trial mode.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

While I agree that there needs enough of a subsidy I don't fully agree it only happens with BDUK Projects.

There were several EO Blocks on my Exchange got given a new PCP and then not long after a Fibre cabinet, but these were done as part of LEP (London Extension Programme) and LEP PLUS.
This has happened 3 to 4 times now on my exchange.

OK, but you have to admit the magic word in there - London. No other city seems to have gained from the extra pot of money that fed into LEP, even though it was originally touted as for 30 cities.

That's not helpful to the likes of the OP. I was rather surprised about just how little of Liverpool Central is covered, even by BDUK. And it isn't because of VM cover.

Still, it is good to see EO lines starting to get seen in commercial plans.

There was SEP which I guess is a commercial project for another area etc.

Yeah, when I looked at the OP Exchange I did notice that not much have been upgraded to fibre.
I know there are loads of EO Blocks, so maybe most of the lines for that exchaneg are EO, hense the slow upgrade.

I would of done all my usual checks, but that would result in my IP getting blocked on the BT Wholesale site and probably another email sent to me, so I won't LOL.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

TBH I did think that the Commercial Project was finished when I saw LEP starting to show up.

However BT told me on the phone (NOT the over seas team) that they are still running / finishing off the commercial projects that got put on hold a few years back.

They went on to say that all remaining areas on my exchange (that were down to be commissioned in 2011) are all currently being surveyed and have a due by date of Feb-Mar 2018 or sooner depending on what stage the areas were at when it was put on hold.

So I am assuming the funding for those was already allocated for those back then.

I just took a gander at the plans for Ilford (right?), and there's an impressive amount of work planned in for phase 18a and b, that no longer gets labeled LEP. I imagine that the changes made to takeup predictions that lead to bigger clawback in BDUK also make more viable cabinets in non-bduk places like London.

Or, as you say, it was already budgeted. And perhaps redrawing FTTP coverage just took a back seat.

Yeah, I am on Iford Central (LNILC) a lot of that work was done and completed like mine (i.e. Cabinet 24), sadly it was not signed off as being completed and they have lost track where they were, hense BT insisting there was no fibre down my road, codelook still says I cannot get fibre yet and says I will get FTTC March 2018 LOL.

BT told me that work even though it was partially completed back in 2011 it was all paid for, just not signed off as completed, and it seems that the status of these areas have been misplaced, hence the re-survey of the areas and the default protocol tag of FTTC, so maybe that will be updated once they discover what has and hasn't been done.

Most of those being done now was all part of the original 66% Commercial Project and going by the leaked document back then about 70% of them were to be FTTP.
I know BT changed their mind to-do with the amount to get FTTP also hense the halt on install.

I did notice back then loads of areas on my exchange getting FTTP hardware installed, well partly installed, and then it all stopped in mid install and that was it until now.

I can see more work happening in the Ilford area around the actual exchange, mostly to do with chamber upgrades, unblocking and so on, there have also been the odd one or two PCP's been installed round the corner from me, but that I think was to replace / relocate some old cast iron PCP's to a more sutable location with extra space if it was to get FTTC which was orig to be FTTP back in 2011.

All I know is BT has told me that all remaining areas on my exchange are being re-surveyed to see what has and hasn't already been installed and then work from there.

So some areas will be getting FTTP and the rest will get FTTC, I know in ~9 Months time I should see both my current FTTP and also FTTC available due to how they system is setup.

But I will wait and see what actually happens

Paul

In reply to a post by dippylicious:

I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but if it is saying "Pending - EO Line" i'm sure that means it is in scope? If it wasn't you'd get a message saying "Exploring Solutions".

Probably not. Depends. Openreach checker can display "exploring solutions" as the "stage", which means no plan, no scope and generally no hope (this is where our SE16 address has been since fibre rollouts begun). "Pending - EO line" is the field in "Technology". They have now been "exploring solutions" about twice as long it took to plan the mission to moon, but maybe one day these explorations actually produce a plan and we can start enjoying such marvels as a skype call that does not break when another person posts a photo to Facebook.

If there is a plan or even a project to rearrange the line, then stage will be something different, while technology is still the same "pending - EO line". That will change to FTTC or FTTP only after the line has been upgraded, even though the upgrade process and new cabinet build was nearly complete.

H

What SE16 Exchange are you referring to?

VAUXHALL   (WRVAUX)
SOUTHBANK  (WRSTHBK)
DEPTFORD   (LSDEP)
EDMONTON   (LNEDM)
WALWORTH   (CLWAL)
SOUTHWARK  (CLSOU)
NEW CROSS  (CLNEW)
BERMONDSEY (CLBER)

A post code would help as well.

Paul

EDMONTON?
VAUXHALL?

Edited by witchunt (Mon 26-Jun-17 16:18:14)

Bermondsey. Rotherhithe riverside, a notorious not-spot.

My post was just about Openreach checker, as someone commented "Pending - EO line" in technology field would mean an existing plan. Only when an area becomes "in scope" there is concrete hope of improvement. In contrast, in areas that have received upgrades, technology will remain as "pending - EO line" up to the point when the newly rearranged cabinet goes live.

This was just to point out it is the "fibre journey" field in Openreach checker that is indicative of progress.

H

In reply to a post by witchunt:

EDMONTON?
VAUXHALL?

My bad, was using wildcards when searching the database LOL.

Paul

In reply to a post by hvis42:

Bermondsey. Rotherhithe riverside, a notorious not-spot.

My post was just about Openreach checker, as someone commented "Pending - EO line" in technology field would mean an existing plan. Only when an area becomes "in scope" there is concrete hope of improvement. In contrast, in areas that have received upgrades, technology will remain as "pending - EO line" up to the point when the newly rearranged cabinet goes live.

This was just to point out it is the "fibre journey" field in Openreach checker that is indicative of progress.

H

Well I think its both that is required, I have seen some EO Lines that was in Stage 2 "In Scope" and never saw them get fibre.

Where as I have seen a Pending EO Line stay at Stage 1 "Exploring Solutions" for a while to then get FTTP etc.

FTTP only uses Stage 1 and 8 and nothing in between.

But then again BT database and system is all screwy anyhow LOL.

Paul

I think it also uses "build" in some areas too does it not?

In reply to a post by lee111s:

I think it also uses "build" in some areas too does it not?

What FTTP?

My FTTP upgrade didn't, it went from Stage 1 "Exploring Solutions" to Stage 8 "Accepting Orders" within hours, there was no in between.

This might of been due to all the hardware was already there and they just needed to update they system to reflect this.

So maybe.

Paul

I think they say on the tracker page or related FAQ that FTTP progress is not shown. The steps are only for FTTC.

In reply to a post by hvis42:

I think they say on the tracker page or related FAQ that FTTP progress is not shown. The steps are only for FTTC.

They say that now on the FAQ, but before all the changes to that page it was all a mess and confusing to some.

Paul