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Hello,
I would like to mention that I bought a new house in Whitehouse area (Milton Keynes). The developers in the area are: Abbey New Homes, Bellway and Taylor Wimpey from my knowledge. At Grange Farm roundabout BT manage to facilitate only a box that provide us with ADSL in 2017 OMG  . Unfortunately I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel because some roads will remain private and because it's still a construction site I have to wait until my road will be adopted. I saw that I our area at approximately 0.9 miles from my home they have BT Infinity (13 Hayman Rise, Grange Farm, Milton Keynes, MK8 0N). If anyone had similar experience with BT and OPENREACH it will be much appreciated if they can tell me how long it took from ADSL to INFINITY.
[IMG] http://beta.speedtest.net/result/6466276478.png[/IMG]"]SPEEDTEST
Kind regards,
Andrew
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Andrew,
You're looking in the wrong direction for the source of your problem. It is the developers who are responsible for informing BT of their requirements and working with BT to make the appropriate arrangements. Your situation suggests to me that the developers were more interested in building and selling their properties than ensuring that they had 21st century services.
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If this is so, I feel we need an urgent change in legislation or regulation.
If Openreach are allowed in year 2017 to install anything else to a new building than infrastructure suitable for year 2017 (this has to mean at least FTTC except in rare circumstances - a lone house built in a very remote location), they need to be forced to drop this practice. In contrast, if developers can block Openreach from installing modern infrastructure, they need to be forced to stop this.
It is utterly counterproductive to talk about 10 Mbps USO from 2020, need for superfast speeds and the huge project that is ahead of us if even newly built connections are allowed to fall below these marks. They had to pay something to install the current cables and very soon they have to pick up the shovel and do it again, to replace the year 1999 infrastructure they just delivered with something that is suitable for today, preferably for tomorrow as well.
I have heard of Openreach not doing it properly unless developer pays them, and I have also heard developers demanding protection money from infrastructure providers to allow them to do their thing. Whichever the problem is, we need to make it go away as the current system of installing long ADSL only capable lines to urban new builds is the definition of waste. The problem of bringing the whole of the country to superfast and very soon after that ultrafast speeds is a massive undertaking, and no one should be allowed to magnify it.
H
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I'm sure the government were looking at changing building regs to make it a requirement on builders for new builds - it is the builder that contracts the supplier for provision and the builder doesn't have to go to BT. If BT are selected by the builder then they install what the builder asks for.
Lobby government to force the builders to do better.
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It's simple: the developer will build the houses as cheaply as possible and flog them for as much as possible. This often means the developer choosing the cheapest utilities options e.g. 100% copper instead of FTTC/P, IGT gas supply instead of Transco etc.
I know this doesn't help the OP, but since 2015/2016 Openreach do not charge extra for installing FTTP on a new build site versus copper provided there's at least 30 properties being built. I suspect the OP's site was started well before OR decided to offer this.
OP, first of all you need to find out what, if any, plans are for FTTC/P in your area
by looking on the Openreach Superfast site:
https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-g...
If there's no plans then get in touch with you local MP, make a big song & dance about it and then you might get somewhere. You may also want to club together with your neighbours/other residents and self fund a FTTC cabinet or even FTTP through Openreach.
If I was in your shoes and the developer was still building houses, I would stick a slow broadband poster in my window with a nice picture of a snail which every potential customer could see. That may just spur the developer into doing something.
Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Jul-17 08:57:45)
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I was involved in a project last year where the builder wanted to run just 3 pair CW1308 from the central utility room/facility in the basement to each apartment. It was suggested that they put in ducts to allow fibre in future - but no.
A final compromise was to run a Cat5e or Cat6 cable to each apartment along with 2xCW1308 - at least then it would be possible for fibre to be terminated in the building and a Gbit Ethernet feed to each apartment and even getting that was a struggle. At one time they wanted to put in just Cat5e/6 - that would have meant no separate voice circuits if the VDSL or Fibre termination was in the basement.
How easy it would have been to provide a potential route for fibre - but no, a small saving was all they cared about.
BT were willing to support which ever solution the builder decided on and would have specified the ducting for a potential future fibre upgrade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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If it's like other installations I've heard about then the builder probably won't test the network cabling and when something actually gets plugged in it probably won't work properly due to poor termination or routing.
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As roads are still private then what Openreach does needs to be in agreement with a developer, options that cost developers to provider VDSL2 or full fibre existed for some time, or going with another full fibre provider has been an option for years.
Openreach has changed its policy and will be offering full fibre to new developments of more than 30 premises now, but this is a recent thing and not applied retrospectively, and still relies on the developer agreeing as the construction work they do will vary slightly.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The developers act unprofessional I spoke with the site manager and he said we don't care about FTC or FTP so we are alone and at the mercy of OPENREACH and BT. My only hope is to raise money and pay OPENREACH to have at least FTC if we are lucky to find interested people.
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Your problem is clearly with the developer and not BT. Get your facts straight and lobby those who are at fault which is firstly the developer and perhaps secondly yourself for not having considered this before purchasing your property. Interestingly I don't hear you complaining that Virgin Media haven't cabled your development just BT whereas both supply and install broadband connections as do an number of others such as See the Light, Hyperoptic and Gigaclear. BT is no more obliged to provide you with a connection than any other company.
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As suggested earlier, stick a few posters up telling people the developer is only requesting ADSL2+ supply, not full Fibre and not even Fibre to the cabinet (VDSL2). Add to it a contact email for yourself, possibly a gmail one specially for the purpose, to form a pressure group on the developer.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 71288/12440Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6 |
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As you've found out, developers couldn't give 2 figs about internet connectivity...all they care about is raking in the cash. However once their bean counters see less cash coming in through falling sales (if you make potential buyers aware that there is no FTTC/P) then chances are the developer will magically fund a FTTC cabinet quicker than you can say boo to a goose
Put pressure on the developer.
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If I input my postcode on OPENREACH website the result is:
We're working with government and industry to explore ways to bring Superfast fibre to as many people as possible but don't have a plan for your area yet.
You might consider co-funding fibre access in your community. Knowing there's a healthy demand in your area can also really help.
Exchange name: Stony Stratford
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 43
However on https://communityfibre.bt.com the result is different:
Under Review
You are connected to cabinet number 43 on the Stony Stratford exchange.
We're in your area but we're still assessing whether or not we can upgrade your cabinet. This means you can't order Fibre yet.
I wonder if from the exchange to our new cabinet at Grange Farm Roundabout is fiber or copper cable.
https://ibb.co/n0k8Ek
https://ibb.co/fUVN75
Kind regards,
Andrew
Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Jul-17 16:27:58)
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Copper only as yet. Fibre will only be installed if the cabinet is upgraded and a VDSL cabinet installed adjacent to it. This needs the developer to put its hands in its pocket and to pay for this and they are unlikely to do so until you and your neighbours start exerting some pressure. BDUK is unlikely to upgrade a new development, that is for the developer to finance.
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An A3 poster such as this displayed in your and other residents windows should make the developer take this a bit more seriously.
https://postimg.org/image/68lzbu1h7/
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Welcome to Whitehouse Milton Keynes facebook page!!!!!!!
I will fight until the greedy developers invest some money into our broadband infrastructure!!!!
Inspection chamber BT on my street:
https://ibb.co/n7Ldx5
https://ibb.co/iWptVQ
Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Jul-17 18:09:07)
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I wonder if there was any reason why your cabinet wasn't going to the Shenley exchange instead of the Stoney Stratford one? As the Shenley exchange would have been over half the distance shorter. Plus more chance of being on FTTP as Shenley was one of the first exchanges along with the Bradwell Abbey to be FTTP
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I'm unclear as to the relevance of the BT chamber photos. It isn't because of BT that you don't have decent broadband, that's down to a developer who wants to build as cheaply as possible and in part to the property owners for not having taken this up with the developer before committing to buy their properties.
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Developers respond best when money is at stake.
You've already handed over your money. That means *you* don't matter to them anywhere near as much as prospective punters who visit the estate.
If enough prospective punters are prompted to ask sales staff about broadband, and walk away from a potential sale, the developers will soon change their minds.
Do you have any idea how to inform prospective punters that broadband speeds are poor? That they should ask about it before putting a deposit down? To walk away without a good answer?
Publicity is key. Bad publicity. As much as possible. Posters. Adverts in windows, cars, gardens. Articles in the local paper. Form a "campaign for better broadband in XXX"; it doesn't need many people - it just needs to sound official, and to be noisy.
You need as many of the people contemplating that estate to have heard about the broadband problems.
Incidentally, do you realise who installed those chambers? And the cables? It wasn't BT. The developer's contractors did the work, using supplies from BT. BT then paid the developer for the work that was done on their behalf.
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Quick question in response to the OPs original question. Am I correct in my assumption that as of today, by law, the developer is only required to provide a single copper pair to each property for voice and DSL up to 2Mbps?
As others here have said, in the absence of a legal requirement, only commercial pressure will change the opinions of your developer. The crazy part is that with a small investment they could charge a premium for homes that have broadband fit for 2020. I live in a house built in 2005, 4.5km from the nearest exchange with 4Mbps ADSL2 per phone line. We are finally scheduled to get a FTTC cabinet in 2018, so I would advise you to make as much noise as you can now to get your situation improved before the developer sells all the plots and leaves.
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I dont believe there is any requirements on developers to provide any kind of broadband connectivity, that is the sole responsibility of the 2 companies required to provide the USO, BT or Kingston Comms, and that the mininmum speed for function internet is still only 28.8kbps.
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There is a lot of FTTP build due on that area so probaly already being planned
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I had a word with a few neighbors our only choice is to fight back. We give away our money and now we don't have any leverage like someone said it here. I had a choice between buying a brand new house in Whitehouse area with Energy Performance Certificate class A and D for a house in Shenley Lodge area where they have FTTP. Will see what will happen in the future for now we are stuck with ADSL.
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I have a update from Infrastructure Programme Manager from Milton Keynes Council as follows:
We understand that all of the Whitehouse development will be getting superfast fibre at some point. However, it is the responsibility of your housebuilder/developer to arrange the necessary works with BT/Openreach to connect up the houses to the network. I suggest that you contact the developer you have bought your home from to ask them when to expect BT to connect up your home.
At some point I hope not in 10 years.......OMG
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I have a update from Infrastructure Programme Manager from Milton Keynes Council as follows:
We understand that all of the Whitehouse development will be getting superfast fibre at some point.
That's excellent news as it means its a question of 'when', not 'if'. In the meantime make potential house buyers aware of the current situation wrt broadband speeds, because whilst the developer is still selling plots, they're in a position to do something about it quicker.
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I have a update from Infrastructure Programme Manager from Milton Keynes Council as follows:
I�ve spoken with the primary developer in the Western Expansion Area, Gallagher Estates. They will discuss your fibre broadband issue with Abbey and I�ll let you know when I have any further information for you.
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if the houses are allready been built very likely they not change the stance on ADSL only (unless it runs off a cab that has FTTC on it)
have some of the houses been built and had copper installed yet? if so then FTTP is very unlikely (FTTC maybe later on), i seen some massive estates been done 70% of them only had 0.5mb bb as the exchange was 3-4 miles away they they used other 30% had 2-5mb, but norm ran at 1-2mb due to been connected to a non 21cn exchange (not had the fiber upgrades so the QOS was avg every ones connection out to 1-2mb at peak time)
stuff like this needs to be done early stages and hope that the developer understands to not be stuck in the 1990s (no FTTC/FTTP or cable) and plan for FTTP and virgin as option (if in area)
i would sure not move into a new house estate just for your current issue (unless i was 100% sure i could get FTTC/FTTP at good good speeds) unfortunately most people broadband is the last thing on there mind until they sign up for it and find that they have barely useable internet
rightmove website includes estimated speeds not sure how it works with new estates as it might assume you can get Virgin or FTTC from closer postcode or its verified not sure
Edited by leexgx (Wed 26-Jul-17 18:50:32)
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I was today from showroom to showroom and the unofficial answer was : In our neighborhood Whitehouse for now the only service available is ADSL. No matter what the Openreach website is saying that you are connected to exchange x and y and you can order FTTP it is not true. We have a few streets with postcode and location on Google Maps however the rest do not have a postcode and location no matter where you live the roads are unadopted. The developers are claiming that after they will finish Phase 2 the roads will be adopted by Milton Keynes Council are they developers will pay for the FTTC cabinet upgrade from Grange Farm Roundabout. I wait to receive a reply to my request from the Infrastructure Programme Manager from Milton Keynes Council in regards with the broadband upgrade from ADSL to FTTC from Gallaher.
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If your near the primary school then plans for FTTP are already in place
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i would sure not move into a new house estate just for your current issue (unless i was 100% sure i could get FTTC/FTTP at good good speeds) unfortunately most people broadband is the last thing on there mind until they sign up for it and find that they have barely useable internet
When I moved to a new-build I knew I could get FTTC and it would only be around the 30 Mbps mark which was OK from my point of view and then Openreach come along and remove one of the two cable coming onto the estate and reconnect all the lines onto the end of the one that feeds the Phase 1 area of the development. Instant sync reduction to 15 Mbps with the extra 500m added to the line length.
I was told the cable was removed because it was only temporary to provide phone and internet access to the sales and site offices but somehow some of the Phase 2 properties were also connected to it, probably because the two cables terminated in the same chamber. But why bother removing it when it was only 10 m long.
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If your near the primary school then plans for FTTP are already in place
From my house to Whitehouse Primary School, Vaynol Way, Whitehouse, Milton Keynes MK8 1AG the approximate distance according with Google Maps is 0.3 miles.
Home:
Exchange name: Stony Stratford
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 43
VS
School:
Exchange name: Stony Stratford
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 33
Technology: FTTC
Something it is not right here 0.3 miles distance and they are connected to a different cabinet?!?!
I assume the website of Openreach is out of date or he provides us with incorrect informations.
Edited by deleted (Fri 28-Jul-17 11:07:24)
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Id say that pcp43 is a new pcp for the housing development and the school is connected to pcp 33 as it was the closet at the time.
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I can give you the addresses of two properties that are 10ft apart and connected to different cabinets. There has to be a cut off point somewhere.
I' came across a property years ago that had 2 lines served from different exchanges.
Not common, but it happens.
Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Aug-17 16:32:59)
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I'm in a brand new terraced house, in a brand new street. My neighbour is on the nearest cabinet at the end of the street. My line runs right past it another 400m to a further cabinet. Both built at the exact same time, about 5 yards apart. The nearer cabinet ran out of of E-Side. It is what it is.
That's a small example of how mixed the network can be. In many areas 1 side of the street is connected to a completely different exchange to the other side of the street.
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Just to add - I live in the same area as Andrew. I can confirm that properties built by other developers have FTTP, whilst Abbey Homes were never offered FTTP by Openreach (accordingly to Abbey Homes). As it stands Abbey are negotiating a deal with Openreach, which can take up to 6 months. Its been more than a year and counting without access to proper Internet as DSL in the area has speeds of up to 0.7Mb.
Any advice on how can this be expedited?
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Abbey Homes were never offered FTTP by Openreach (accordingly to Abbey Homes). And you believe that? I suspect that Abbey acted either in ignorance or simply didn't want to spend more than the minimum and only now are reacting becuase their purchasers are starting to realise that they have been short changed by Abbey.
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