Another (2nd) FTTC line

I currently have a perfectly working FTTC connection with A&A (on their TTB [TalkTalk] backhaul).

I paid for a brand new installation as part of that A&A connection. The OpenReach engineer installed a brand new cable from the underground distribution point to inside my house.

I think the brand new phone cable contained 2 copper pairs - would this be a fair assumption?
I then assume only 1 pair is currently used for my A&A FTTC.

If I ordered another FTTC connection with a different provider and paid for another new line installation as part of this 2nd connection, would the OpenReach engineer be able to use the other pair on the existing physical phone cable to successfully connect up the 2nd FTTC broadband?
And if so, would the performance of both broadband connections be ok or is interference between the two likely?

The ideal would be to not need to drill new holes for a potential 2nd FTTC connection.

(If it helps, the 2nd FTTC line would be with a different LLU provider - e.g. BT/Plusnet or Sky)

TIA,

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It may even have 4 pairs in. I know my lead in from the DP does.

The engineer would use another pair from the same cable but a nee hole may be required in the wall, depends on the installation.

It's possible that both lines will suffer some degree of crosstalk.

I had two FTTC installed. I also deliberately went for different LL providers, excellent for resiliency and I've never had a situation when both failed at the same time.

The existing cable into the house here had at least two pairs in it. The engineer just put a second BT socket next to the original. Doesn't matter who the provider is as it's an OR engineer that'll get the line into the house using whatever existing infrastructure they can find.

There wasn't detectable crosstalk interference initially but the second line (BT) performed much better at 30Mbit than the original (Sky) at 25Mbit. Both dropped have since dropped to 25/20 as the cabinet filled up (a second cabinet is going in later this year).

Both useful - thanks very much

I'm happy with the drilling required to secure the 2nd master socket to the wall.

How would the engineer get access to the physical cable? My current/1st master socket is attached to a stud/plywood wall with the physical telephone cable directly out the back of it (then running behind the plywood wall, through some ducting and then out into the front.

Would the engineer for the 2nd line be happy to remove the 1st master socket to get access to the 2nd pair in the cable?

I am being particular - really appreciate people's help here - because I spent a lot of effort setting things up so everything looked neat, and don't want to have to take off and refit the stud wall again for this next 2nd line idea.

TIA

The engineer will be able to access the other pair from outside the house. Do you have a BT66 (grey box) on the wall outside?

In reply to a post by ohit:

And if so, would the performance of both broadband connections be ok or is interference between the two likely?

I have two FTTC lines at same location. The first has been installed for around 18 months. The second went in a few weeks ago. When the second line was connected, the attainable rate dropped by 10Mb on the first line but both lines are still happily syncing at full speed (80/20) and both working fine.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

The engineer will be able to access the other pair from outside the house. Do you have a BT66 (grey box) on the wall outside?

Not sure if it's a BT66, but the colour is brown. (I can check properly later today)
New one installed as part of the new 1st line installation. Engineer can access that, sure, but what about inside the house to fit 2nd master socket?

In reply to a post by craski:

both lines are still happily syncing at full speed (80/20) and both working fine.

Great, thanks - useful info.

How is Talk Talk Business btw? I assume better than their consumer service and using the same Talk Talk LLU that A&A use, which is an appealing option to potential migrate away from A&A (with then a different provider on the 2nd FTTC line).

So far I'm happy with Talk Talk Business. Their technical support is responsive on both phone and electronic help system and the service quality has been good with latency slightly lower than my Zen/BTW line and consistent throughput on speed tests at all times of the day.

You may well find that the cable that goes into the house has multiple pairs in it, perhaps take the cover of the external junction box and post a photo.

Sorry took a while
Photo link is online here: https://ibb.co/mA1HGa

From looking at it myself, seems there will be disruption to the internal wall (I think) to get the 2nd master socket mounted in the house

Any other thoughts or options?

So is the black cable the BT feed and the white cable into the master socket?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

So is the black cable the BT feed and the white cable into the master socket?

Yep. Black from outside the house. White going inside the house.

So the orange pair connects to the brown/green to get inside and then a new master socket connects to the brown/green inside.
Is that what you want?

The white cable is old (pre-CW1308) and all four conductors are only loosely twisted together, not as two pairs, so there would be considerable crosstalk if a second VDSL service were to be run on the brown & green wires.

Handy to know, I've got Openreach coming to install a second line for me on Wednesday. There are two cables coming in from the pole - one is a newer 4 pair cable and the other is an ancient 3 core.

I was worried they might try to use the old (dodgy when raining) cable. I didn't realise the newer cable had that many cores. Also it should mean the new line is going to be located where other one is

Edited by kebabselector (Sun 13-Aug-17 23:46:35)

In reply to a post by tdw42:

The white cable is old (pre-CW1308) and all four conductors are only loosely twisted together, not as two pairs, so there would be considerable crosstalk if a second VDSL service were to be run on the brown & green wires.

That's useful information - thank you.
Disappointed with that outcome: it was a brand new line installation about 9 months ago, straight from underground DP (which is immediately outside our front garden) and into the house.

It looks like real CW1308 to me. It's twisted but not like Cat5.

You are wrong there, that's the current issue standard internal cable from Openreach. The date can also be estimated it being in association with the two pair UG cable, cable ties (rather than screws) in the BT66. All pointing to stuff fitted in the last few years.

My bad - I've seen old quad cable (re)connected to newer cables / block terminals, but on closer inspection that is white, rather than cream or grey, and has a rip cord.

After some rummaging I found "On some installations of internal extension wiring (post-2012) BT/Openreach have now come full circle and have reverted back to using white four core cable containing solid colours: blue to pin 2, orange to pin 5, brown to pin 3 and green to pin 4 (if used)." and in fact on page 6 of the Openreach Copper Developer Handbook (dated 2016) it shows these colours used for internal extension wiring.

So is CW1308 with white/blue, white/orange pairs no longer being installed by Openreach, and is the new cable two pairs, or quad construction?

Thanks for posting the colour code

In reply to a post by tdw42:

So is CW1308 with white/blue, white/orange pairs no longer being installed by Openreach, and is the new cable two pairs, or quad construction?

It is two pairs. Pair one is the blue & orange, pair two is the brown & green.

Yes the new cable is just like the very old cable ! lol And yes it does have a real twist on the pairs.

Soon they will bring back a new lead paper cable .