Master socket help

Hello everyone,
New here - so please excuse if I've posted it in the wrong place.


I have just moved into a property where they have an old master socket (looks like an NTE5 socket) downstairs which feeds an extension socket in the loft. The extension socket in the loft is the new type BT filtered master socket, so my broadband router is in the loft. It doesn't work with the filter in the socket downstairs. After doing some research I bought an MK3 faceplate and tried with that without touching any cables downstairs and no luck.

What I'm trying to do is get my broadband router to plug in the socket downstairs...without paying £150 + VAT to Sky for moving the socket. Any help would be appreciated. Have I bought the wrong faceplate?

Are you sure it's not the master in the loft and the extension downstairs?

Yes you are right. I stand corrected - Master socket is in the loft room and the socket downstairs which used to be the Main socket in the property is now an extension socket. If you look at the photos the upstairs socket is being fed from downstairs - I don't have any cables going to the upstairs socket from elsewhere.

If you have photos it may be possible to discover how to re-arrange the wiring to do what you want.

Presumably the previous occupant was happy with their router in the loft room and there maybe power there. Does that not suite you?

Here you go, thanks a lot

http://imgur.com/a/Q6rJq

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

I don't have any cables going to the upstairs socket from elsewhere.

The quality and length of the cable could be an issue running as it does up through the house - as you have intended its best use the downstairs NTE5 + Mk3 faceplate by doing some basic rewiring.

Thank 4m2 I'm trying to find instructions for the basic rewiring..installing MK3 faceplate without rewiring doesn't work. What do I need to do to get it working? Thanks

Is there a dial tone from the downstairs NTE5 test socket? If there isn't then I'm afraid its a job for Openreach.

Yes there's dialtone- I have a fully functional phone connected downstairs.

Thanks

This is very common, when users got fibre they often did not use their ADSL on the master socket. If the extension wiring was good enough spec the engineer would connect jelly crimps to the wiring behind the master, connect it to the extension, install fibre socket here, backwire to original master and cut out capacitor.

It should make a very marginal if any difference & it would have to pass all line tests e.g. if it ran next to noisy electrical wiring it wouldn't do this.

Personally unless you have a real need to mess, I'd keep it there.

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Yes there's dialtone- I have a fully functional phone connected downstairs.

That's interesting: a dial tone from the test socket but apparently no xDSL via the Mk3 faceplate which also fits in the test socket. Perhaps the Mk3 faceplate is faulty, have you tried a dangle filter (as supplied with routers) in the downstairs NTE5 test socket?

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

This is very common, when users got fibre they often did not use their ADSL on the master socket. If the extension wiring was good enough spec the engineer would connect jelly crimps to the wiring behind the master, connect it to the extension, install fibre socket here, backwire to original master and cut out capacitor.

That makes sense, so the OP will only be getting filtered voice from the downstairs test socket?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

This is very common, when users got fibre they often did not use their ADSL on the master socket. If the extension wiring was good enough spec the engineer would connect jelly crimps to the wiring behind the master, connect it to the extension, install fibre socket here, backwire to original master and cut out capacitor.

That makes sense, so the OP will only be getting filtered voice from the downstairs test socket?

Exactly that, you would not expect anything but voice to work here. This setup was how engineers got around the situation of router in the office, master in the hallway. It also saved running extra wiring around the property, generally speaking they'd be looking for cw1308 or better spec wiring.

And the filter is the downstairs faceplate?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

And the filter is the downstairs faceplate?

Exactly, so they jelly crimp A+B from original master to a pair on the extension wiring, the extension socket is replaced with a master, and the jelly crimped A+B pair connect to the back of the new master.

Then on the faceplate you use another pair to back-wire to the original master socket. Very common, was done at 2 of my houses when I moved, and a few friends who got fibre did not use the master, but now have a shiny master where their old extension was, this must be done similarly.

Does the downstairs socket still work with the upstairs faceplate removed like it is in the photo?

Hi BatBoy,
Yes the socket still work with the upstairs faceplate removed (without removing any cables).

The problem I have is that when I'm next to the router in the loft room - I get a good performance whilst browsing/streaming, speed tests using various tools give a reading of 70 mbps down and 15mbps down whilst in the loft....if I run the same tests downstairs I get 20-30 mbps down and 5-10mbps up. I clearly notice a difference when I'm browsing on my laptop downstairs vs upstairs.

and I thought somehow making the downstairs Old Master socket to work with my router would resolve my problems instead of buying a signal booster or similar device.

Thanks/

Thanks ukhardy - do you know if there are any visual instructions or a video of how I can re-wire the downstairs socket?

Thanks

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Thanks ukhardy - do you know if there are any visual instructions or a video of how I can re-wire the downstairs socket?

Thanks

It's against openreach T&C to remove that part of the socket & to make changes. I can do it, but if you attempt & something goes wrong it's a hefty fee £120+ to get BT to resolve. Can you run an ethernet and setup a second AP perhaps?

Thanks. I agree with you that if you are mainly downstairs then that is
1/ where the router should be, or
2/ at least a WAP (wireless access point) connected to the router by ethernet.
3/ You may even find success using homeplugs to connect the WAP to the router using the mains wiring or
4/ lastly using wireless to effect the connection.
I listed these in descending order of preference.

Unfortunately you have some hookey wiring probably done by an equally hookey BT bod which I'm sure BT will be happy to charge you £130 to change. Further you could be on dodgy ground if you mess with the mess yourself.

What would help if you're still keen to have a go is to remove the next 2 screws from the next faceplate and get a picture of the wiring behind - on both sockets

Edited by deleted (Thu 17-Aug-17 14:13:01)

Speaking with an openreach friend, he states backwiring is a big no-no in the training, but claims they "do it all the time." Apparently they get a slap on the wrist if that install gets audited

I bet they would, because either way it's going to cost the customer money which only annoys the customer.

Why on earth didn't they fit a standard extension socket as a replacement for the NTE5 downstairs? The OP appears to have two other extensions wired (with bell wires connected) to that downstairs NTE5 faceplate both carrying filtered voice. Also it looks like the blue/white and white/blue wires are carrying filtered voice from the upstairs filtered faceplate to the back of the downstairs NTE5 thus making a connection to the front plate via the test socket.

The downstairs NTE5 has now presumably been rendered unusable for its original purpose so one option would be to replace the downstairs NTE5A, fit a Mk3 filtered faceplate on it and fit a standard extension socket upstairs and do some very simple rewiring,

Here are the photos:

http://imgur.com/a/Q6rJq

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Here are the photos:

http://imgur.com/a/Q6rJq

Looks like you also have two other extension sockets for phone use only when both the pictured downstairs and upstairs faceplates are fully refitted?

Yes this property had 2 other extension sockets - which are not being used anymore - we ripped the cabling & sockets out (from the installation point) out whilst decorating. So at present there are only 2 sockets...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

so one option would be to replace the downstairs NTE5A, fit a Mk3 filtered faceplate on it and fit a standard extension socket upstairs and do some very simple rewiring,

To be honest - I don't need the extension socket upstairs. I can re-wire the downstairs socket with a new NTE5 plate...my question is- will that work?

If I were to remove downstairs socket, disconnect all cables and then re-wire to a new NTE5 plate - will that work? I don't really need the extension socket in the loft.

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Yes this property had 2 other extension sockets - which are not being used anymore - we ripped the cabling & sockets out (from the installation point) out whilst decorating. So at present there are only 2 sockets...

But you left part of the extension cabling to those two other sockets still connected to the downstairs NTE5 faceplate?

It will work but best if you can correctly identify where the BT line comes in from the outside.

Yes, I don't think the builders took out the extension cabling all the way to the downstairs face plate. They ripped the cables out to the point where nothing was visble - any underfloor/ in the wall cabling was left as is.

Thanks

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

To be honest - I don't need the extension socket upstairs. I can re-wire the downstairs socket with a new NTE5 plate...my question is- will that work?

If I were to remove downstairs socket, disconnect all cables and then re-wire to a new NTE5 plate - will that work? I don't really need the extension socket in the loft.

No because you will probably have to disconnect the crimping done behind of the downstairs NTE5 and reconnect to the back of a replacement NTE5. It's a simple job, even more so since you don't need an extension upstairs, but really only work for an Openreach engineer or other authorised person.

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Yes, I don't think the builders took out the extension cabling all the way to the downstairs face plate. They ripped the cables out to the point where nothing was visble - any underfloor/ in the wall cabling was left as is.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

but really only work for an Openreach engineer or other authorised person.

Have given up on Sky on arranging an Openreach engineer. Is there another way I get get an Openreach engineer?

Thanks

Why do sky refuse?

In reply to a post by mxnmx:

Have given up on Sky on arranging an Openreach engineer. Is there another way I get get an Openreach engineer?

The builders seem to have chopped off the extensions and it is probable that there is back-wiring so I think you really need a professional to sort it out if it is absolutely necessary to have the NTE5 master socket (demarcation point) downstairs. Explain the nature of the probably "unorthodox" home wiring to your ISP and they may agree to sending an authorised person to do the job.