Outofreach

On going saga!

My telephone line is exchange only. I am about 3km from my exchange, Tetford, Lincolnshire.

Two years ago a fibre cabinet was installed just 1km from me and I have been trying, for over two years, to get my line diverted using an organisation called 'OnLincolnshire'. They appear to not be able to help and tell me that my line was overlooked many years ago when this area was upgraded by BT, or whoever!

The line from my home is overhead across my land then descends into an underground duct alongside the highway. From this point it is about 500 metres to the new cabinet. I have established that this same duct also connects with this new FTTC cabinet so essentially it would simply be a matter of re-routing my copper wire. Ironically, this same duct carries fibre cable to a neighbouring village and my exchange, past my home and there is an appropriate manhole nearby!

I managed to contact, via email, the 'Openreach enquiry team'. Their confusing response was as follows:

"Unfortunately, we can't action your request to move cabinets. It�s not Openreach policy to do this. Our network was set up historically to deliver telephone service. So to re-arrange the network now to connect premises to nearby fibre broadband cabinets would involve considerable infrastructure work. As a company we are trying our best to get the whole country connected and are always trying new things to improve speeds for the end user. We have left exchange only lines till last. You can try our fibre team to see when your cabinet will be done"

The OE Team provided a link to their 'fibre team'. I wrote, providing all the information I have outlined above regarding my phone line and their response was thus:

"Thank you for writing in to us. I�ve spent some time looking into your query and found that your property is connected directly to the TETFORD exchange, without going through a green cabinet. This is called an �exchange only line�. Unfortunately exchange only lines are one of the small number of properties we can�t currently provide fibre to. We�re working hard on various solutions to exchange only lines, however for the moment I�m afraid fibre isn�t available at your location. Sorry I�m not able to give you any further details right now, however you can visit the following site and register your interest in fibre"

I registered my interest in fibre, two years ago!

In order to ameliorate the "considerable infrastructure work" involved I suggested they send me the wire, a hard hat and a hi-viz jacket and I would do it myself. I am very handy with a soldering iron and a wire-wrap tool

Is there any way of getting Outofreach to fulfil my minor request? Wireless is an optional alternative but very expensive around here.

Can you post the results of www.dslchecker.bt.com ?

Have you offered to pay their costs for a network rearrangement.

What makes things more complex is that what you want to do can impact on others, so what seems easy for one line, gets more complex once others are involved.

Lincolnshire as a project has generally been big on fixed wireless but AB Internet is in the hands of administrators at present, so might be something to keep an eye on.

At the moment Openreach's commercial rollout is not including EO lines due to cost, and as they said, are leaving them until very last.

The BDUK rollout does include many EO lines however and really that is your only hope that you are apart of that. Otherwise no matter what email you send to who, nothing's gonna happen.

Also I think it's unfair to assume "simply a matter of re-routing my copper wire" is very naive, you do not actually know for sure whether the copper line goes through the ducting you stated. You are just assuming.

That's a stock reply from the Fibre Team. I got the same word for word.

Well Mr. Tomse43, I am impressed by how much you know about me!!

While OR were busy laying the new fibre cable outside my gate I spent some time talking to their engineers who showed me this duct with my copper pair (and others) in it alongside the new fibre under an inspection cover. They also pointed out the other inspection covers all the way to the new FTTC.

I am 74 years young, well versed in telecommunication matters and gave up assuming soon after birth!!!

DSL checker tells me no more than I already know: ADSL up to 5Mbps (actually get 6.5 when the wind is in the east)

Mr Saffron, never thought of offering to pay for it! Just DIY And had heard about AB Internet demise.

Edited by Andrew_W (Fri 18-Aug-17 11:51:37)

2nd thoughts. Ignore.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Aug-17 11:20:35)

In reply to a post by Andrew_W:

Well Mr. Tomse43, I am impressed by how much you know about me!!

While OR were busy laying the new fibre cable outside my gate I spent some time talking to their engineers who showed me this duct with my copper pair (and others) in it alongside the new fibre under an inspection cover. They also pointed out the other inspection covers all the way to the new FTTC.

I am 74 years young, well versed in telecommunication matters and gave up assuming soon after birth!!!

DSL checker tells me no more than I already know: ADSL up to 5Mbps (actually get 6.5 when the wind is in the east)

Mr Saffron, never thought of offering to pay for it! Just DIY And had heard about AB Internet demise.

If you had specified that in the original post then I wouldn't of said it.

However, complications could still arise whether or not the ducting is definitely the same. From what I gather copper rearrangement is a rather skilled task.

The best information about EO lines I found was on the Scotland Superfast website here

And to pull one of the questions from there which is the exact issue you face. Obviously this is referring to the Scottish BDUK rollout but it's similar across the UK.

I am on an EO line and there is a new fibre cabinet close to my house. Can I ask for my line to be re-arranged to the new cabinet?

No. Planning, building and maintaining the telephony and broadband network is a complex operation and changes that can appear simple on the surface can have many knock on effects. So unfortunately, it is not possible for us to re-arrange the network by request, one line at a time.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Aug-17 15:55:56)

Thank you!

My copper rearrangement skills are quite good as I have installed central heating in at least four homes, so far

That is impressive actually. We had ours changed last year and it's a big job!

I saw 5 policemen the other day but they weren't standing sensibly. I asked them all to stand in order of height. Unfortunately that is the only experience I have of copper rearrangement

LOL

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

LOL

Must admit I was expecting a groan more than a LOL

Has anyone actually successfully requested a copper rearrangement for an EO line? I was told much the same as the stock reply above - that it is difficult and they don't do it on request, even for money. They will do it for a bunch of lines if BDUK or similar fund it, but not for individual lines.

No, it just can't be done. It really isn't as simple as connecting your pair to the local PCP, even if it runs right by it, or shares ducts with other lines to the PCP.

Upgrading EO lines is 1 of the most expensive projects, which is why it's only ever BDUK projects. It often involves months of planning and lots of fiddly labour. After all, they can't just move your line on its own, or everyone would want their line moved. Can you imagine if they made an exception for someone and a neighbour found out.

In reply to a post by sheephouse:

Has anyone actually successfully requested a copper rearrangement for an EO line?

They will do it for a bunch of lines if BDUK or similar fund it, but not for individual lines.

Yes, copper re-arrangement is done within BDUK projects, but it really does require work to plan and coordinate (there are potential crosstalk issues, that can affect other homes).

I have certainly seem it happen here (North Yorkshire).

It is likely that the work would have to be done for all homes on a DP, rather than just an individual home. And possibly multiple DPs.

I recently found some history of the FTTC upgrade in Nocton, Lincolnshire. That upgrade included some copper rearrangement (not EO, but a similar situation), but it looks like it took rather a battle to get done.

Take a look here:
http://nocton.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/BT%20Openr...

If you want to read chronologically, use "Older posts" to go back to March 2016, and read from there onwards. Look for references to either "Pillar 3/2 Metheringham" or "Cab 17 Metheringham".

You'll see that cab 17 was being installed to service a PCP that was originally secondary (aka a "pillar") 3/2. The houses that need re-arrangement weren't connected to 3/2, but went direct to PCP (primary) 3.

There is https://communityfibre.bt.com/ which allows groups to co fund a roll-out so for example this could be a number of premises wanting FTTP

I am very handy with a soldering iron and a wire-wrap tool

Which (sadly) displays exactly how little you know of the subject ....neither would be required to do what you request .... what you mention are exchange tools , and they haven't been installing tip solder stuff for years.

I am also very handy with arc welding, oxy-acetylene welding, silver soldering, brazing etc etc, all of which (sadly) are totally inappropriate

Would it help that I live in a remote area with nearest neighbours being a kilometre away?

The ubiquitous green cabinet that serves everyone else around here is 500 metres away next to the FTTC. AFAI can establish, I am the only EO.

BTW Just been reminded of this promise!

The Government is supporting investment to provide superfast broadband coverage to 95% of the UK by December 2017

That's 24Mbps or more. Roll on Christmas

Edited by Andrew_W (Sat 19-Aug-17 08:57:10)

If it was done by BDUK then it might be worth contacting them. It's possible you were missed out in error.

Certainly missed out!

Harsh but why do you think you are going to be in the 95%?

If it was 100% then no contest, but with a 95% goal and that is across the whole UK so some areas that are already above the 95% are pulling up areas below to create the average.

Projects are working with a massive value for money clause and this means if BT thinks it can help 2 premises rather than a single 1 for the same money then the 2 will get helped first.

My point was, your post was implying you would be able to do it yourself, it being a simple task, so why couldn't Openreach ?

And yet your statement about gun wrapping showed how little you do understand about the issue.

Maybe if your initial post had just outlined the problem, and asked for suggestions ......

Maybe post the dslchecker output, maybe the cabinet number too would help?!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Maybe if your initial post had just outlined the problem, and asked for suggestions ......

Or maybe had you not responded at all since you appear incapable of useful input to my query and a lack of a sense of humour!

Currently your so-called sense of humour is doing you no favours

Exchange only so no cabinet number

He mentioned a cabinet 500m away

Yes the number of the cabinet would help, but that would also publically identify where the poster lives since they've said they are the only property in the postcode if I recall.

As you said, he's not connected to the cabinet and there's no reason to think the cabinet is in the same postcode he is.

But he has said how far away from a cabinet, so once we know the cabinet number identifying the property is pretty simple.

You happy telling everyone your distance from your phone cabinet when property density is such that you might as well post your full address.

In reply to a post by Andrew_W:

Would it help that I live in a remote area with nearest neighbours being a kilometre away?

The Government is supporting investment to provide superfast broadband coverage to 95% of the UK by December 2017

@MrSaffron gave you the (harsh but true) answer: There hasn't yet been a single commitment to ever get fixed-wire broadband to 100% of premises - not at 25Mbps "superfast", not at 10Mbps "USO", not at 2Mbps "USC". Every promises comes with some provisos and get-out clauses, and some people left on satellite.

To give you some insight into context, I did some analysis of our population, and where we live...

The median person lives in a city with 220,000 population (ie 50% live in bigger cities; 50% live in smaller places)

The 75th percentile lives in a town of 22,000 population (10,000 premises)

The 90th percentile lives in a village of 2,000 population (800-900 premises)

The 95th percentile lives in a village of 300 population (125ish premises)

Measurements stop at the 95.2% level, with hamlets of 100 people and 40 houses.

If you live in a place with a single property, then you're likely to be a long way off the list of promises.

Or maybe had you not responded at all since you appear incapable of useful input to my query

So, what you need is a 'network rearrangement' these are sometimes done for larger groups served by EO cables.

You mention that you are the only one in the vicinity NOT served by the cab 500m away. Also You say the cable goes UG once it leaves your land.

So in terms of new cable, just back from the first UG box by your land to the first joint served by a D side from the cabinet, (this is sometimes referred to as a'strap' in the trade) then a couple of joints fitted, and then you'll need an E-sde to said cab *....... Once this rearrangement is complete, and records updated, then you can order from your choice of FTTC suppliers.

As said, by others, new cabinets and network rearrangements are sometimes funded by local BDUK schemes. If just for your line alone, who should pay for this to be done, and how will they see return on their investment if you yourself don't finance it ?

and a lack of a sense of humour!

.... I have a sense of humour, it's just you haven't said anything funny.


* Still no need for soldering, gun wrapping, oxygen acetylene, mig welding, required in any of this though.

It's quite simple to find someone given what we know anyway. I have the dslchecker output for the address and phone number, I just need to locate the cab 500m away from the premise.

So next door I assume, is connected to the cabinet in question and has the following availability

VDSL Range A (Clean) 65.3 48.1 19.3 13.2 40.4 Available -- -- Yes
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 54.4 32.5 16.1 7.5 27.4 Available -- -- Yes
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available -- -- --

ADSL Max Up to 4 -- 2.5 to 7 Available -- -- --
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- -- --

Other Offerings
VDSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- -- --

Questions

Is it possible to come to some sort of arrangement with next door?
Is FTTPOD available?
Does www.linebroker.co.uk help?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

.... I have a sense of humour, it's just you haven't said anything funny.

Ok, that made me laugh, not sure I have a normal sense of humour though

Thank you Fred, made my day!! I don't either..

Just ordered a satellite system that also tracks the ISS. Have to be quick though and not always around when you want it!

Thank you everyone for your sensible replies. Others should consider their umbilicus

¡Yo descanso mi caso!

Andrew