FTTPoD - New Pricing from Openreach from Feb 2018

New pricing and minimum terms have been announced by Openreach today:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefi...

The new proposal operates on the following basis:

The new pricing operates on 12 months minimum term. This has been reduced from 36 months.
In addition to the existing 330/30 Mbps, 500/165 Mbps and 1000/220 Mbps variants, customers can now order two more variants: 160/30 Mbps and 330/50 Mbps.

Reduced connections and rentals, which will be charged in line with standard FTTP prices.

Withdrawal of the distance-based charging, replaced by a FTTP on Demand build charge, established through a planning/survey phase.

Quotes are subject to survey. We will provide an initial, non-binding estimate of the level of build costs. Upon confirmation by the communications provider, we will proceed with the planning phase, and establish a final firm price which is valid for a period of 30 days. At this stage, if the communications provider does not want to proceed then it is liable to pay the survey and design fee of £245.14.

Deductions will be made on the build charge for:
- Each FTTP on Demand order in the PON build
- Any additional premise passed by the PON build

Multiple FTTP on Demand orders in a geographic cluster can be processed simultaneously:

- The build charge deduction per PON will apply for each FTTP on Demand order
- Provides an opportunity for the build charge to be shared by multiple end customers

A few people on here who have placed orders are not going to be too happy with this part - The new pricing will apply to orders purchased from the 1 February 2018. Existing customers will continue to pay the old tariff until they complete their minimum period of service.

Edit: Updated pricing reflected here - https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

Edited by deleted (Mon 30-Oct-17 12:31:29)

Thanks for that, very interesting.

I think the 12 month min term is designed to appeal to residential customers as well whereas the current incarnation of it is geared towards businesses. I magine the pricing will tumble even further if people on a street place a mass FTTPoD order. I'll mention this to one of my neighbours who may get this cheaper now that my house already has FTTPoD installed. Oh well just another 32 months left on my FTTPoD contract LOL

It looks like Openreach pay the first £700 of a new PON build. An additional premises will see a £50 deduction (not massive) on the build charge to connect to that PON.

Time will tell what the actual build charges are like, but the fact you can seem to pool multiple premises in the same area together is quite an incentive I would think.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

It looks like Openreach pay the first £700 of a new PON build. An additional premises will see a £50 deduction (not massive) on the build charge to connect to that PON.

Time will tell what the actual build charges are like, but the fact you can seem to pool multiple premises in the same area together is quite an incentive I would think.

Isn't that £50 per premises the newly built PON passes just added to the allowance for the overall PON, so on a 32 premises passed PON you're looking at 700 + 31 * 50 = £2250 off the costs?

As I understand it once the PON has been built homes passed by the newly constructed PON become native FTTP enabled, and operators can submit orders for multiple premises on the PON simultaneously and spread the enable cost between them all.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

I magine the pricing will tumble even further if people on a street place a mass FTTPoD order. I'll mention this to one of my neighbours who may get this cheaper now that my house already has FTTPoD installed. Oh well just another 32 months left on my FTTPoD contract LOL

Since my install is targeted to go live on completion of my house purchase on 20th January I may end up being the person in the worst case scenario! 36 months.

Best wishes
James

In reply to a post by Jabes:

Since my install is targeted to go live on completion of my house purchase on 20th January I may end up being the person in the worst case scenario! 36 months.

Best wishes
James

I feel better now No seriously, when I ordered the service back in February, I was fully aware the pricing model of FoD might change at some point in the future so I certainly don't have any regrets. What stage is your installation at?

Looks to be much more compelling than the old pricing, knocking off £700/PON and £50/house passed - hope they haven't increased the build charges and this is indeed cheaper FTTPoD.

I�m not sure I know what PON is a TLA for.

I promise anyone who gives me a link to a glossary that I�ll bookmark it!

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

I feel better now No seriously, when I ordered the service back in February, I was fully aware the pricing model of FoD might change at some point in the future so I certainly don't have any regrets. What stage is your installation at?

I was aware of it too but didn't expect it to be just as I went live!

The latest status update said that the fibre cabling and underground cabling is complete and waiting to resource fibre jointing.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

I�m not sure I know what PON is a TLA for.

I promise anyone who gives me a link to a glossary that I�ll bookmark it!

PON passive optical network

Will be very interesting to see some example build charges to get an idea how the costs may (or may not?) have changed.

Good news for adslmax lol

No comment

So somewhat less than a year then Max ....

and someone less well meaning might suggest that the post it replied to was you too.

This I might get more interest in in my area. When I last canvassed, most implied they were happy with their 13-25 Mbps speeds they currently get and put off by the cost of community funding a cabinet for the estate. This will have a significantly cheaper build cost even if the agg node is quite a way off.

I think you're right here, but there needs to be some clarity from OR about how they treat the premises passed once a PON has been built.

We will probably see more details on Thursday with BT's results. I also would be interested to know about BT Consumer's plans for FTTPoD going forward. I am now confident that the FTTP Premium (coming in March 2018) will be a re-branded FTTPoD product aimed more at the consumer market.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

Isn't that £50 per premises the newly built PON passes just added to the allowance for the overall PON, so on a 32 premises passed PON you're looking at 700 + 31 * 50 = £2250 off the costs?

It is certainly written this way. But it might be less than a full PON, down to what a single DP can service. Or it might be a full splitter node.

From models we've seen of the old-style cabling, a brand new FTTPoD installation will have deployed a splitter node (capable of supplying 128 premises), furnished with a single splitter device (one PON, capable of 32 premises), connected to one DP (capable of supplying ~20 premises), connected to one manifold (capable of supplying 7 or 12 premises).

The PON (the splitter device), although servicing 32 premises, could be connected to any of the 128 in its service area. But if Openreach really mean it to apply where hardware is already installed, then it might be as few as the single manifold (or connectorised DP).

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

As I understand it once the PON has been built homes passed by the newly constructed PON become native FTTP enabled, and operators can submit orders for multiple premises on the PON simultaneously and spread the enable cost between them all.

I like the transparency that this pricing brings about for multiple premises. But we lose a feel for what the build cost might be ... and that might have gone up a lot, as the changes to monthly fees get rebalanced elsewhere.

On the flip side Openreach have reduced the costs of deployment a bunch by delivering in a sane way.

Only way to know for sure will be when survey estimates come in.

Question is how many ISP's willing to launch new product FTTPoD in 2018 eg: BT, Sky, Plusnet & Zen? I doubt they won't be.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 31-Oct-17 10:44:13)

In reply to a post by Jabes:

Since my install is targeted to go live on completion of my house purchase on 20th January I may end up being the person in the worst case scenario! 36 months.

Best wishes
James

You can cancel it with your ISP just tell them u can wait until 2018 for new pricing on new FTTPoD. Can you?

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

I feel better now No seriously, when I ordered the service back in February, I was fully aware the pricing model of FoD might change at some point in the future so I certainly don't have any regrets. What stage is your installation at?

Are you sure? I would be 100% gutted and wish I could wait for more sensible pricing on the new FTTPoD. The old pricing is just ridiculously overpriced.

BT is always usually first out of the blocks. Sky is normally last.

BT will be selling this as a premium product, I am 100% sure of this.

Can I remind you that you are taking time away from broadband, go and do something in real life

Perhaps a 12 month ban for his own good is in order

That would be worse than a prison sentence.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

BT is always usually first out of the blocks. Sky is normally last.

BT will be selling this as a premium product, I am 100% sure of this.

Plusnet?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Can I remind you that you are taking time away from broadband, go and do something in real life

Not easy for me MrSaffron.I try to be limit.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

BT is always usually first out of the blocks. Sky is normally last.

BT will be selling this as a premium product, I am 100% sure of this.

Plusnet?

Maybe you should spend the first part of your year off campaigning for BT to make native FTTP available in your area of the Cuckoo Land exchange so you wouldn't have to bother with FTTPoD?

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Maybe you should spend the first part of your year off campaigning for BT to make native FTTP available in your area of the Cuckoo Land exchange so you wouldn't have to bother with FTTPoD?

With my illness mental health. I don't think I capable to do this. Not fit for purpose.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Are you sure? I would be 100% gutted and wish I could wait for more sensible pricing on the new FTTPoD. The old pricing is just ridiculously overpriced.

What price did Cerberus give you? Aren't you also comitted to paying the old pricing?

Edited by deleted (Tue 31-Oct-17 12:42:54)

In reply to a post by mike99:

What price did Cerberus give you? Aren't you also comitted to paying the old pricing?

There was nothing between myself and Cerberus. We never in touch. As I told TTB forum I do apology as making this stories up and put my hands up. APOLOGY.

There never been any communcation between myself and Cerberus in the past nor at present. End of.

Read back in the thread, they never gave him a price, Max invented it all.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

There was nothing between myself and Cerberus. We never in touch. As I told TTB forum I do apology as making this stories up and put my hands up. APOLOGY.

There never been any communcation between myself and Cerberus in the past nor at present. End of.

Oh, sorry. I must have you confused with another user as I know some people here have been fortunate enough to place FTTPoD orders.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

As I told TTB forum I do apology as making this stories up and put my hands up.

Only coz you were outed by Cerberus. How long would you have kept up the pretence otherwise?

Edited by Davey_H (Tue 31-Oct-17 13:04:58)

In reply to a post by Davey_H:

Only coz you were outed by Cerberus. How long would you have kept up the pretence otherwise?

Lesson is learned. I am ONLY a human. I have APOLOGY to Cerberus and everyones here. Just move on.

Assuming Max does have a mental health illness then such questioning doesn't help - but Max is certainly not helping himself by saying fairly regularly that he is going to leave the forum and then keep coming back. If he is going to get better then he needs to seek professional help and resist the temptation to post somewhere that he believes is not good for him.

I got appointment to see psychological therapies team this Thursday say my GP.

That's good. Hopefully they can help you get things on track. But, you are still posting here despite this being at least the second time I remember you saying that you needed to leave for your own health - it sounds like something of an addiction for you.

Thanks. The only way to give myself a break away from TTB Forum is MrSaffron to BANNED me for 12 months. That's will be much easier for me to have a long break off. That's up to MrSaffron to decided against me.

Someone remind me on 1st November 2018

Deleted

Edited by ian72 (Tue 31-Oct-17 13:26:52)

Interesting update from BT Wholesale this morning:

This changes the pricing structure and contract commitment for FTTP on Demand significantly. However, our initial analysis indicates the cost of ownership will be no different under the new pricing structure but will be only over 12 months.

This is the crux of it I suppose - we don't know how the new pricing will work out.

I'm guessing it will be based on current ECC charges so should be somewhat transparent.

Otherwise how could Wholesale make any kind of estimate when OR haven't released pricing?

One good thing about the new offer is that it seems to take into account PON infrastructure that is already present.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Nov-17 08:17:05)

One thing I'm interested in and have asked FluidOne is where Openreach haven't committed to a delivery date on an order, is it possible to cancel and re-order to take advantage of the new pricing?

Obviously where service has started the existing contract has to run to the end before you can change pricing, but it would seem odd that given there's no SLA for completion time, if Openreach can essentially hold an order open indefinitely without supplying service, but still enforce a 3 year contract term that doesn't start till the service goes on-stream....

Remember the big unknown is the On Demand build charge, so if an order is in progress and you cancel the build charge might have risen, so while monthly cost is lower the amount paid over two to three years may still be similar

If lots of properties stand to benefit e.g. 1 premise in a cluster of 12 then pricing may be better.

In short no one can say for sure without spending time going through the old process and new process

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Interesting update from BT Wholesale this morning:

This changes the pricing structure and contract commitment for FTTP on Demand significantly. However, our initial analysis indicates the cost of ownership will be no different under the new pricing structure but will be only over 12 months.

That, frankly, is what I expected.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Interesting update from BT Wholesale this morning:

This changes the pricing structure and contract commitment for FTTP on Demand significantly. However, our initial analysis indicates the cost of ownership will be no different under the new pricing structure but will be only over 12 months.

That, frankly, is what I expected.

Can you give an example of your expectations? Mine are:

Lets say you had a £3000 install fee and then pay £160 a month for 36 months on the current FTTPoD (all plus VAT). That's a total cost of £8760 or £243.33 a month.

Are we reading this as saying the £3000 would be spread over 12 months? So 3000+(12*160)/12= £410 a month?

I can't imaging that's at all correct. If its the same cost why pay more per month. Even the 12 month contract doesn't help the total paid.

But OR are saying

Reduced connections and rentals, which will be charged in line with standard FTTP prices.

So it should be £3000 (or whatever) for connection and then as low as £32.50 for an 80/20 connection which is £276.66 a month for the first year.

But we don't know what the connection/build costs are going to be...

Incorrect...

Believe that the monthly costs from Openreach would be as stated but that the On Demand build charge is going to higher than what people paid previously since some of the build costs were built into the pricing differential

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Incorrect...

Believe that the monthly costs from Openreach would be as stated but that the On Demand build charge is going to higher than what people paid previously since some of the build costs were built into the pricing differential

In which case I'm not sure I understand what OR are up to. Reducing the term to 12 months makes it look attractive to consumers. But not many are going to pay huge build fees. I'm not sure how many people on, say, an 80/20 FTTC would feel the need to upgrade. And certainly not pay thousands to do so.

Will people club together to get a connection? Maybe if there's no fibre at all, but if that's the case maybe FTTPoD isn't an option.

And if I know once someone else nearby orders the build I can piggyback on their build - who's going to be the first to order!?

If business users are the target, why pay more monthly rather than over a longer time? That's not so good for cashflow.

So I'm confused as to what its all about. Perhaps all will become clear. But at the moment it doesn't look like an incentive to get FTTP passing many more premises.

The difference before with FTTPoD is that it was a one-off build for a single order. Openreach most likely worked on the assumption that there would only be one customer on the splitter/PON, so the entire build charge was consumed by that customer (I actually think Openreach paid a fair percentage of the build too).

Now, Openreach is allowing multiple orders for the PON at the same time and the build cost to be shared. So, say 32 customers want FTTPoD at the same time, in the same area. Openreach would provide a build charge for that PON and the charge could be shared over all 32 orders. If the build charge is say, £15,000, then this could mean £468.75 per customer order.

Essentially the new pricing will encourage ISPs to find multiple customers in the same area who want FTTPoD. Exactly how this will work with ISPs remains to be seen.

Going slightly off topic here, but any idea when BT retail (or other CPs) will start selling 500 Mbps and 1 Gbps services on FTTP? Its almost a year since Openreach announced them yet no ISP is selling these (AFAIK). Wouldn't mind one of the higher tier services mainly to get a significant increase in upload speeds (as high as 220 Mbps).

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Nov-17 16:23:59)

This is good news.
When it comes to next February I'll be spending the £250 to get a quote. Obviously I'm expecting the build charge to be (very?) expensive, but I'd rather that as a one off cost rather than expensive monthly charges.

BT Retail cannot sell it because BT Wholesale don't offer it at the moment.

There was some dialogue between BT Wholesale and ISPs, but little interest was shown so they've not added those speeds at the moment.

I think a fair bit of work needs to be done to support those speeds (hardware/back end) at BT Wholesale's level, so there is probably no business case if there's not widespread ISP support.

Voucher schemes will sometimes only pay for install/upfront costs, so when this was spread over the term firms/people could not make best use of vouchers.

It cannot have escaped peoples notice that ultrafast or Gigabit vouchers are something that Government wants to hand out money for.

CityFibre et al are in a good position and this is Openreach making sure their position is similar.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Essentially the new pricing will encourage ISPs to find multiple customers in the same area who want FTTPoD. Exactly how this will work with ISPs remains to be seen.

OK, thanks that make more sense now.

Call me a cynic but I can't see much demand for multiple FTTP connections as suggested. And what will happen if BT (say) order a PON? Will they have rights to it and if I'm with another ISP I'd have to move over.

Too many known unknowns here. Actually, unknown unknowns. Probably better to wait til next year than speculate.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Essentially the new pricing will encourage ISPs to find multiple customers in the same area who want FTTPoD. Exactly how this will work with ISPs remains to be seen.

OK, thanks that make more sense now.

Call me a cynic but I can't see much demand for multiple FTTP connections as suggested. And what will happen if BT (say) order a PON? Will they have rights to it and if I'm with another ISP I'd have to move over.

Too many known unknowns here. Actually, unknown unknowns. Probably better to wait til next year than speculate.

Anything Openreach build under this is open access. The demand is not expected to come from residential customers but ISPs ordering for all their customers in a PON at once.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Someone remind me on 1st November 2018

You are reminded, as it is 1st November 2018.