Weird Fault

Hi guys,

It's been a long time, since I was last on here, so I hope everyone's well.

Well, after I raised concerns about a line fault a while back, it looks like it's finally materialised, but I can't completely diagnose it as what I think is a HRJ fault.

Basically, the other day, after a solid 23 days uptime, there was a resync. Then, after that resync, most times the landline phone was used, the line would drop out completely, and then come back, a few minutes. However, once it didn't come back during the whole call, even after the landline phone was hung up. I then had to use the landline phone again, to get the Hub to resync. The other thing I've noticed, is that to my knowledge, the connection hasn't dropped when a call has come in, only when some have been made, going out.

Also, I've noticed that if the Hub does drop due to a landline phone call, but then reconnects during it, the DS rate can drop by nearly 10 Mb!

What is even weirder though, is that last night I disconnected the phone line completely from the master socket, and connected it again. Every time I've used the landline phone since then, it's not dropped out, only a slight drop in DS SNRM has been noted.

I've done several line tests, but only the usual slight buzzing is noted (I'm using a DECT landline phone).

I'm thinking there's something wrong somewhere, because I doubt this "quick fix" I made last night, will last forever.

What do you think?

Thanks!

William

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Dec-17 18:13:55)

How did you test the line. Did you ask a BT operator to test the line?

I used the Openreach line test system (17070 option 2).

I think I may have used a 151 (or 150) number in the past which does a proper test. Alternatively I would call the Indian call centre, either using a mobile with nothing connected to your master socket not even extension wiring or one phone just plugged into the internal socket.

I'm not going to report a fault yet, as atm the connection seems to be fine, whether the landline phone is being used or not. But, if I need to, I think I'll go down the chat route, as the call centre isn't great, at the best of times.

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Dec-17 18:26:01)

Sounds like the cable between the DECT base and the phone socket wasn't firmly home. Or a similar problem in that area that got fixed by you doing what you did.

Right, thanks Bob.

I'm just wondering, if the DS SNRM is still being affected when the landline phone is in use, then would that confirm that the issue is still present, even if its not affecting enough to cause the broadband to drop out? Also, AFAIK, nothing changed that would've affected the phone cable, so I don't know how it could've come loose... A mystery, I wonder if it'll come back. If it does, I would assume that I have an intermittent HRJ fault, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's me thinking the worse. LOL.

Just thought I'd mention (yes you know my relationship with DLM LOL), after all of these drop outs, DLM hasn't made any negative changes to my line, which really surprised me, to say how brutal it has been in the past, due to just a few resyncs. Maybe it's had an update/become more lenient.

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Dec-17 22:07:43)

My SNRM drops by ~1.5dB when the landline is in use. AIUI that sort of thing is normal.

It has never caused a problem except when I was running with my sync-time SNRM set to 1dB .

Well, if that's normal, then apparently what I'm experiencing is better than that! I thought the phone line wasn't supposed to interfere with the broadband side, in any way?

I've just started uploading to MDWS again under the ID "Grimmybob". As of now, I can't see any that jumps out at me as being bad, but there are some fairly big DS SNRM dips. What do you guys think? Just to let you know, I'm not going to obsess over MDWS this time, I'm just monitoring them because of what happened earlier in the week.

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Dec-17 16:41:30)

Who's Bob?

RobertoS.

Considering that the phone signals and broadband signals travel literally on the same two wires on the extended D-Side to your house, there is a distinct chance of interference.

Additionally, the 17070 QLT, whilst a good basic test and easily carried out, as by definition you are listening for noise, what-ever you hear must be in the low, limited audio frequency spectrum.

So there could be extreme noise in the much higher frequencies that ADSL and VDSL use, which you will not and never hear; and would need an oscilloscope, spectrum analyser or other similar device to detect.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

So there could be extreme noise in the much higher frequencies that ADSL and VDSL use, which you will not and never hear; and would need an oscilloscope, spectrum analyser or other similar device to detect.

Or dslstats

Thanks, Batboy.

Must look further in to those.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, all I can hear is a continuous buzz and a distant rustling sound, atm.

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Dec-17 22:33:07)

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

RobertoS.

What's this RobertoS associated with Grimmybob all about? I can't say I'm over-happy about it.

I thought you had a previous MDWS username?

Err, I'm confused. Your username is not associated with my MDWS ID in any way. Yes, I did.

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Err, I'm confused. Your username is not associated with my MDWS ID in any way. Yes, I did.

What's this about then?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

I've just started uploading to MDWS again under the ID "Grimmybob".

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Who's Bob?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

RobertoS.

Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Dec-17 10:17:12)

Aha, I see where the confusion is! Sorry, Bob! My bad! I thought BatBoy was talking about where I said "Right, thanks Bob", not "grimmybob" in another post. Just to clear things up, "bob" is not you, or anyone for that matter, it's just part of the username that I made up.

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Dec-17 10:21:05)

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

I thought BatBoy was talking about where I said "Right, thanks Bob", not "grimmybob" in another post.

Where?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Right, thanks Bob.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Who's Bob?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

RobertoS

In this thread?

Coincidence? William has used the username GrimmyBob in the past, along with many other usernames. Pretty sure it has no relevance to yourself.
Why 1 username isn't enough I do not know.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Coincidence? William has used the username GrimmyBob in the past

Where?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Right, thanks Bob.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Who's Bob?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

RobertoS

In this thread?

The problem is this sequence is not a subthread. The sequence I gave was .

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Coincidence? William has used the username GrimmyBob in the past

Where?

Why?

It's the only username William can hold over 5 days worth or data on MyDSLWebStats. He's used it since March 2016

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 04-Dec-17 12:07:51)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Coincidence? William has used the username GrimmyBob in the past

Where?

Why?

I've never seen it used on this site. I thought you may have seen a post made by a user gimmybob hence the confusion.

Yes, correct. Haha, I can't remember why now, I think it was due to a data issue on MDWS or something. Reading through this current page, is quite amusing! What a confuse fest! LOL.

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Dec-17 12:27:50)

To give you some idea, with good hearing, I struggle to hear a very low-pitched (mains?), low-volume sound on my line.

No other noises.

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I wonder about the "rustling sound" - anyone else encountered such a sound?

Right, yeah I would say it's a bit more than that, but not as far as crackling. Do you notice any DS SNRM drop when using the phone? I'm just wondering if it's normal to see that on most/all lines?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It's the only username William can hold over 5 days worth or data on MyDSLWebStats. He's used it since March 2016

As far as I'm concerned the whole matter is over and done with wrt my objection, which was raised because of WG's confusion and thereby attributing the use of "bob" in the username to being a reference to myself.

But following your link, where does his MDWS username show? You cite that post as showing he has used it before.

I have never noticed any problems in using the land-line phone simultaneously with ADSL or VDSL, whether incoming or outgoing.

It may be that because of the problems we had a few times long before xDSL, as a "simple" land-line; and getting them sorted out back then, has produced a very good line for xDSL.

I also think that any such problems are better sorted out, preferably before getting ADSL; BUT very decidedly before VDSL, makes life a lot simpler in the longer term.

Hence particularly in recent months,I have recommended when I have noted posts about delays to upgrading to VDSL, I have suggested that such delays created windows in which such fundamental aspects should be sorted out.

Haha, sorry about that Bob. I should've been more specific. Hopefully, you're not concerned about my username now.

Well, a telephony engineer did attend the premises earlier in the year. He identified that there was high resistance showing on his JDSU, so then he went to the cabinet and swapped over the E-side with another one, and the issue was fixed. However, I have a feeling that this was a "quick fix", as my line has been terrible in the past (on ADSL) due to trees rubbing on the line, and ofc due to the recent drop outs caused by making outgoing calls on the landline phone.

Here's a recent SNRM plot, it doesn't look great, but far from alarming, atm: https://i.gyazo.com/4d427c06a4e09d2afa7b04cb61f6d16f...

I'm currently noting a DS SNRM drop of circa 0.5 dB when the landline phone is in use, which then persists for several minutes, even after the clear down has been completed. So, I'm probably safe to confirm that it's the line, not a device that's causing the drop... Occasionally, there are DS ES (with retransmission high enabled), and frequently there are US ES (but that's on fastpath so to be expected). Obviously, this isn't alarming, but it isn't normal, IMO.

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Dec-17 16:07:01)

Back at work in the mid-1970s, we had a lot of trouble with dial-up, ringing our central computers in Birmingham.

We would end up either in Greater Manchester Police HQ; or an ex-directory "private" number in the outskirts of Birmingham, on a frequent basis.

---------

Changing the E-Side at the cabinet would surely imply a corresponding change back at the Exchange!

In my latter years at work, I had a TDR (JDSU), my "pocket radar set". Very useful - and I was able to demonstrate the different polarities of standing waves, O/C and S/C, hooking up a scope to it.

Oh yes, of course it would! That would explain why is he was away from the property for over an hour, then. XD. Yes, I would love to get my hands on a JDSU, but would need to know what to do with it.

Unless you are involved with networks and other extensive wiring, it would not be of much every-day use to you, unlike say a general purpose multi-meter.

My colleagues were vaguely aware of standing waves; but had never knowingly encountered them in practice.

I have an extensive radar and radio background, both working and teaching, so being aware of how my TDR worked but having a digital display in feet or yards or similar but did not convey the SW principle, I was able to intercept the basic signals, to display them on an oscilloscope.

Was quite fascinating to show the polarity inversion, as I shorted then opened the "circuit", a lengthy reel of co-ax cable.

Fair enough, you've already lost me! Hahaha! You're very knowledgable!

I've just completed a quiet line test, the first one in quite a while. It was quite weird... There were several occurrences of cutting metal type sounds, every so often. However, the broadband stayed up, so I'm not sure whether to report it as a voice fault or not...

I suggest that you do report it, to your phone provider as a voice fault - don't mention Broadband.

-----------

If and when G.Fast comes along, I suspect that we will be looking for EQLTs, judging by the frequency coverage.

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Dec-17 15:18:03)

Right, I just want to check, as it's not affecting the quality of the calls/broadband.

If it�s not affecting the calls and broadband then I wouldn�t report it as anything, you�ll likely end up with a bill for the wasted visit. The call handler will likely log it as a CDTA (conscious decision to appoint) and the engineer unlikely to find anything wrong is then likely to close it down right when tested with a charge raised.

Interesting. I reported a similar issue earlier in the year. A telephony engineer came out, found high resistance on the line, changed the E side, and then went on his way. No charge...