New build with no FTTC/P

Hi,

I have recently move into a new build housing estate. FTTC has been rolled out to cabinets 1-8,12 and 13 in the town, but we are on cabinet 9. Planning permission was granted for this estate on Tue 08 Mar 2016. The OpenReach website says they're no plans for FTTC to this cabinet. The same has happened to another new build estate that is on cabinet 10.

Connected Counties (http://www.connectedcounties.org) seem to have provided the funding for FTTC in the town. I have no idea what happened to cabinets 9,10 and 11. I assume they must have existed as cabinets 12 and 13 were given FTTC.


It seems strange that the older parts of the town now have FTTC, yet the new builds do not. I am not sure who we should complain to. Is it the developers fault, OpenReach or Connected Counties?

I would have thought new builds would get FTTP, but maybe I am just being optimistic. I did read this announcement from the government, but again, I am not sure if it was a hope or promise (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-build-homes-superfast-broadband-connectivity-options)

If anyone else has faced this or knows the best next steps I would love to hear from you.

Best wishes

Michael

Which town ?

A postcode would help.

Paul

Sorry about that, Buntingford, Hertfordshire. SG9 9GL.

Strangely the same cabinet for post code SG9 9FL is in scope for FTTP. I believe this to be an error.

Thanks for the help.

It's down to the developer to select what type of infrastructure they install - sadly they invariably go for the cheapest.

If you're fairly early onto the estate, perhaps you and some of your new neighbours could try to put some pressure on the developer to look at a fibre infrastructure to take you straight to FTTP?

We have spoken to the developer and they have washed their hands of it. We are on phase 2, and other phases are opening up. It will be 350 houses by the end. I would say we are about 150-200 built now. We regularly see the OpenReach engineers installing the copper to the new houses.

It is very annoying. I'm still confused about who could have paid for this, and who could pay for it going forward. We are going to look into the Community Fibre Partnership, but it seems odd that we would have to do this when the rest of the town has been supplied with FTTC. It has been no secret that these housing estates are coming.

Why do you think it's an error?

It's quite likely Openreach have decided that the area will be served by FTTP rather than FTTC even though they are installing copper to the properties on the development. OK it might change to FTTC at a later stage.

Also according to Novembers Database the quoted postcode wasn't allocated a cabinet number.
The current database is now showing a cabinet number, this may or may not of been due to the copper lines going in.

I say give it a while longer say Jan 2018 and see then.

Paul

I am in a similar position so providing info based on my experience.

The blame for this is with the developer, they are the ones who decide which infrastructure to install. Which developer is it?
You may want to contact openreach fibre enquiries to find out if there are any plans for your area, I�m not sure the current form link but A quick forum/google search should give you something. The area around me had 1000 or so houses with varying post codes and BT basically waited until a considerable number of houses were completed before installing the fibre over the top of copper so that they knew where all the ducting was going to be especially so for the larger developments. My impression is that FTTP requires more upfront planning to determine the best way of running the fibre.

In terms of connected counties I was told from my local BDUK team that new builds were not eligible for funding if the postcodes were not created as part of the last Open Market Review (OMR) I�m not sure when this was last done for the county. I would give them an email along with openreach, my scheme has contacts within BT if further details are required on specific areas. Hopefully it�s just a matter of time but if the developer hasn�t engaged with BT then unfortunately you�re at their mercy.

I suggest contacting the above 2 places first to see what they come up with and then escalate to MP to make a complaint and only after that engaging with community fibre as it can be a lot of work to organise.

Good luck

In reply to a post by bazcurtis:

We have spoken to the developer and they have washed their hands of it. We are on phase 2, and other phases are opening up. It will be 350 houses by the end. I would say we are about 150-200 built now. We regularly see the OpenReach engineers installing the copper to the new houses.

It is very annoying. I'm still confused about who could have paid for this, and who could pay for it going forward. We are going to look into the Community Fibre Partnership, but it seems odd that we would have to do this when the rest of the town has been supplied with FTTC. It has been no secret that these housing estates are coming.

I think if a group of you was to regularly protest outside the show houses and get the local papers involved they may well decide to dig into their pockets once it starts affecting sales!

The reason I think this is an error is because that post code (SG9 9FL) covers an estate that was built around 2010. I don't believe cabinet 9 was there then. The OpenReach engineer told me there is no ducting going across the road. Cabinet 9 is on our side of the road, SG9 9FL is across the road from the cabinet.

Edited by bazcurtis (Wed 27-Dec-17 08:16:21)

Thanks for the reply. I have raised a complaint with Openreach and will encourage others on the estate to do so as well. Below is the reply from Connect Counties and Openreach. It says they're doing a new OMR, but do not say how long that think that will take. It looks like we can only wait. The developer is Fairview and they have no trouble selling the houses so no superfast broadband isn't hitting sales. I think I will write to our MP as well. I looks like a waiting game.

Thank you for your patience as we looked into your enquiry.

I am afraid that the Connected Counties programme has been unable to include your postcode at this stage. The address at which you live was built following the start of our programme and as a result is not yet part of our plans and we are currently prohibited from including it under EU regulation. We are conducting a new �Open Market Review� as I write and your address will be considered as part of this and should get around the issue with EU regulation. Moving forward there may (subject to funding) be a further Connected Counties phase, to reach premises not already covered by the current programme.

Unfortunately, the developer for the new estate appears not to have made the adequate provision for Superfast Broadband, although there is currently no legal requirement for them to do so. It may be worth raising this issue with the developer to see if this is something they would consider retrospectively.

I am including below some of the options for areas which are not yet part of the current programme, although I am conscious these will not be suitable for all areas.

· Community Fibre partnership - BT have recently launched a campaign to make it easier for communities to pursue a co-funded solution: http://www.communityfibre.bt.com/ and there are other network providers who also might be able to help: http://www.connectedcounties.org/#providers though please note such an approach would entail considerable funds from the local community.
· Project Lightning - Virgin Media is also currently conducting a major extension of their fibre network, and are urging communities who want better connectivity to register their interest here: https://keepup.virginmedia.com/cablemystreet?buspart...
· 4G - It may also be worth exploring the viability of 4G coverage � Ofcom provide a coverage checker here https://checker.ofcom.org.uk/ and you can find the most up-to-date information on the coverage checkers on the respective mobile providers� websites.

I realise this will not be the news that would have been hoped for at this stage, however, I hope it goes some way to reassuring you that we are looking to make a better broadband service available in your area as soon as we are able.

This was the Openreach reply

Thanks for getting in touch with us about fibre.

I've had a look into this for you and can see the cabinet 9 that serves your customer is of the BUNTINGFORD exchange isn't currently fibre enabled.

I've also checked all our planned projects to see if there's a timescale I could offer for any upgrade to fibre. I can't give you any dates right now as the project to upgrade your cabinet has yet to be implemented.

I'm sorry I'm not able to give you any further details right now, however please feel free to visit the following site and check for updates on fibre availability in your area:

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br...

Once we have any further details about fibre installation to your property we'll be in touch. By ticking the boxes below the form you can also have you current service provider, and/or others get in contact with you as soon as you can order fibre broadband.

Thanks for getting in touch

Hi Paul,

Which post code are you referring to? SG9 9GL or SG9 9FL? How could you tell the date of the database you were looking at? SG9 9FL is an estate that is at least 6 years old.

In reply to a post by bazcurtis:

The reason I think this is an error is because that post code (SG9 9FL) covers an estate that was built around 2010. I don't believe cabinet 9 was there then. The OpenReach engineer told me there is no ducting going across the road. Cabinet 9 is on our side of the road, SG9 9FL is across the road from the cabinet.

The only postcodes that were linked to cabinet 9 on the November dataset file were SG9 9FJ and SG9 9FL.

SG9 9FL was probably an EO Line due to its distance from the exchange.

Like I have already said, give it a little while say the first quarter of next year, some updates take longer to update.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Wed 27-Dec-17 09:32:06)

In reply to a post by bazcurtis:

Hi Paul,

Which post code are you referring to? SG9 9GL or SG9 9FL? How could you tell the date of the database you were looking at? SG9 9FL is an estate that is at least 6 years old.

I was referring to postcode SG9 9GL, my guesses are that your postcode use to be an EO Line (i.e. a direct cable from your address to the exchange) basically no cabinet.

And to be upgraded to FTTC you require a cabinet.

As to knowing the date of the database that's being looked at, there are places you can go, just look through these forums.

Paul

It is not OR you should be complaining to but teh developer. The response from Connected Counties has even told you where blame lies.

I agree with what you say that Fairview should have done a better job getting fibre to the estate. Saying that, Connected Counties had no trouble getting FTTC into parts of the town that were already built. The cabinet was already there. I would have thought they would have left enough budget to cover all cabinets in the town.

Part of this thread was to see how many others had issue with new builds not getting super fast broadband and how successful they had been getting it installed.

I appreciate all the feedback.

I live on a new build estate that had no availability of superfast broadband. I had to moan at the developer (Barratt) several times before they relented and funded the installation of FTTC.

First phase residents were provided with 4G WiFi as the telephone infrastructure wasn't installed until 6 months after they moved in. Thankfully it was in place by the time I moved in and I got 8Mb on ADSL. Sadly Openreach couldn't change plans to FTTP due to everything already being ordered and ducting laid for copper cabling.

Here's hoping the relaunch of FTTPoD next year results in lower pricing as I know a lot of my neighbours are keen on getting this!

It's not that Connected Counties have no problem in paying to update older parts of the town it's that both they and BT consider it to be the developers responsibility to pay for the installation in the same way as they do for the provision of other services on a new development.

Shouldn't be the responsibility of Connected Counties or OR to have to pay for it all though.

I'm unsure of exact specifics, but OR actually offer to install FTTP for free to house developers on new-build estates that exceed a certain number of houses, and I believe the developer just put the ducting in, OR come and do the rest. You can read more about that here.

People should stop moving into new-builds that do not have a MINIMUM of FTTC. and I'd at least expect FTTP in this day and age, especially with offered for free.

In reply to a post by MCM:

It's not that Connected Counties have no problem in paying to update older parts of the town it's that both they and BT consider it to be the developers responsibility to pay for the installation in the same way as they do for the provision of other services on a new development.

As is quite right and reasonable. It's a question of which came into existence first.

When the property comes first it's not unreasonable to ask for help to cover the cost of getting the new service provisioned since no-one could have expected the service to be needed.
But when the property is built after the service is widely available it is the responsibility of the builder to provision an adequate service.

Neither Openreach nor the government should have to get involved other than (in the case of the government) perhaps consider changing the building code and retrospectively applying it at the house builder's expense.

Put simply: The houses are not built to an adequate standard. That's for the owner and builder to deal with.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

In reply to a post by bazcurtis:

We have spoken to the developer and they have washed their hands of it. We are on phase 2, and other phases are opening up. It will be 350 houses by the end. I would say we are about 150-200 built now. We regularly see the OpenReach engineers installing the copper to the new houses.

It is very annoying. I'm still confused about who could have paid for this, and who could pay for it going forward. We are going to look into the Community Fibre Partnership, but it seems odd that we would have to do this when the rest of the town has been supplied with FTTC. It has been no secret that these housing estates are coming.

I think if a group of you was to regularly protest outside the show houses and get the local papers involved they may well decide to dig into their pockets once it starts affecting sales!

Yes. Use phrases like 'Inadequate build quality' or 'Not fit for modern life' or 'Builder doesn't care about owner's complaints'.

Approach it the same way you would (or should) a snag list. It's a new house. Expect it to be perfect in every way and complain vociferously if it isn't.

That is interesting and some useful information to go back to Fairview with. Thanks very much.

If a group of you go down and see who's in charge they will find it a lot harder to fob you off.

Two years down the line, we can fill you in.

The two postcodes with FTTP, Connected Counties decided the most cost effective route for about 150 homes was FTTP. About 10% uptake on that option.

Cabinet 9 which also serves the 345 new homes on the Fairview development wasn�t successful in gaining funding from the open market review, no plans were ever reached to upgrade cabinet 9.

FTTP self funding from Openreach was about £180k, but everyone would have had to take FTTP.

We tried other providers, Hyperoptic were keen but Fairview weren�t prepared to grant access to install their equipment. We approached other companies too, along with regional directors for Openreach, local MPs and the secretary for broadband or whatever his title is.

In the end we went for a community fibre project and funded it ourselves, signed the contract back in April and should get FTTC within 12 months.

Good to hear you've made progress, although you'd think with fibre first and its aims they'd put the money for the FTTC cabinet towards the cost of installing full FTTP, sooner or later they will probably pay to install FTTP so why not now when they can get a chunk of cash towards it.

Hopefully for you it's a lot quicker than 12 months.

Codelook have it down for Jan 2020