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My in-laws live in a remote area, serviced currently by ADSL2 (at least I think it's 2, though it may as well be dialup). They currently get 1.3Mbps down and ~0.25Mbps up. So streaming videos/audio is a pipe dream.
I'd sooner something was done for people like this, than people like me who keep getting emails saying I'm now able to upgrade to 300MB... and im not sure if the new FoD, is a step towards that.
Given the "new" FoD/Openreach changes, do things look a bit rosier for them? I've checked out the proposed 2018 pricing, but don't really understand it in all honesty.
They're currently running of the MRWHA exchange, and lie 2.5k from the exchange, and also 2.5k from the nearest FTTC enabled cab. They're served by over head/pole telephone lines.
I appreciate that they can't just stamp their feet and expect BT to run some new copper direct, or what not, but what options do they have under these new FoD regs?
Who do they speak to to investigate things?
What rough costs might they be looking at?
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The option is order now and pay under current scheme
or
Order later and hope next scheme will be cheaper.
The monthly costs with the new scheme are lower, but over a three year period expect the changes to be cost neutral over all, i.e. pay less per month but pay more upfront, that said for long runs like yours I'd expect the cost to be higher overall.
The only upside is if the might be 30 or 50 premises that count as passed by your PON and thus reduce the charge to you.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Are those 2.5k distances actual cable runs or straight line?
If they are actual cable runs then their service is underperforming. At 2.5k I would expect ADSL2+ to be delivering 6 to 8 Mbps, and if their cabinet is 2.5k then there is the potential to get around 3Mb on FTTC - I ave accces to one line that is just under 3km and that is getting about 3Mbps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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It's 2.5k as the crow flies (so I would assume slightly more). However, it is fed across fields by pole, so it could be quite direct.
Equally because its over fields, I doubt it would pick up many other properties to reduce the cost 
I'm fairly useless at maths, but using old pricing, I had roughly got it down as;
£10k install
£300+VAT per month (for 3 years)
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Have found out where the aggregation node is or the distance to it?
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No, how do I find that? I assumed the Agg mode was nearest cab with FTTC?
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Your cabinet is enabled for Superfast fibre however you're not able to order fibre just yet.
This might be because the length of the line is too long to get Superfast speeds. We're actively looking at other options.
Whaley Bridge MRWHA
Cabinet 4
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Does anyone know what exactly happens on 1st February?
Are the providers Fluidone and Cerberus geared up to use the new order process? Will they be adjusting their FOD ongoing prices and contract terms to match the native FTTP ones?
Or is there going be a period of time where no one can actually order FOD until the providers release new products.
Maybe Fluidone / Cerberus are best placed to answer this...
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Does anyone know what exactly happens on 1st February?
Are the providers Fluidone and Cerberus geared up to use the new order process? Will they be adjusting their FOD ongoing prices and contract terms to match the native FTTP ones?
Or is there going be a period of time where no one can actually order FOD until the providers release new products.
Maybe Fluidone / Cerberus are best placed to answer this...
I think you're better off actually speaking to the mentioned ISPs to enquire about their plans for FoD under the new pricing. At present no-one on here - unless they're Mystic Meg - will be able to tell you what ISPs will charge in future for FoD.
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It's 2.5k as the crow flies (so I would assume slightly more). However, it is fed across fields by pole, so it could be quite direct.
Equally because its over fields, I doubt it would pick up many other properties to reduce the cost
I'm fairly useless at maths, but using old pricing, I had roughly got it down as;
£10k install
£300+VAT per month (for 3 years)
I would suggest the line is much longer than 2.5km or there is another problem if they are on ADSL2, when we where on ADSL2 we got about 1.3 on a line about 5.5km long
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Someone on the forum may already have that information.... as often happens.
If there is no certainty that FOD will be available to order from 1 Feb, then that is also something to factor in if deciding whether to order now or wait.
One could be waiting an indefinite amount of time....
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I emailed Cerberus the other day asking about the new prices and services (im interested in the potential gigabit FTTPoD) and I was told thatchy won't be offering the new Openreach pricing as they buy from BT Wholesale so will only change if BT Wholesale change there prices and services offered.
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I emailed Cerberus the other day asking about the new prices and services (im interested in the potential gigabit FTTPoD) and I was told thatchy won't be offering the new Openreach pricing as they buy from BT Wholesale so will only change if BT Wholesale change there prices and services offered.
In addition to the one-off installation costs, Cerberus' (and FluidOne's) monthly service charges to the end user consist of the following:
1) Bandwidth & carrier costs: these are payable to BT Wholesale
2) Fibre line rental costs: these are payable to Openreach
3) ISP profit, admin costs, rents, staff salaries etc
Pricing structure of 2) is being changed from Feb so if any ISP sells FoD next month, then they WILL be paying the new lower costs of 2) to Openreach. Question is: will they pass that saving on to the end user? At the very least though, they should offer the service on a 12 month min term rather than the current 36 month term.
Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Jan-18 04:11:10)
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I had a chat with a rep from Cerberus on the phone about the new pricing structure a month or so ago, as there's no way I'm going to be moving to my new place in time for the current pricing structure, he told me that the prices for the actual service itself will be more around the native FTTP pricing, but cost of ownership (as has been mentioned on here before) will more than likely be the same or potentially more over longer distances. So will be interesting to see!
That said, they did tell me that because i'm on a market A exchange there's an Ofcom surcharge of £60.00/month (ex VAT) which is kind of irritating, so that'll boost my monthly payments up quite considerably.
Edited by Nitro93 (Sun 21-Jan-18 18:33:07)
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What £60/m Ofcom surcharge?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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BT Wholesale announced last month that they will be introducing the new pricing and terms, as well as two new FoD variants (500/165Mb/s and 1000/220Mb/s) that will be launched shortly after the new pricing.
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Here's what I was quoted early December (based on current pricing structure)
"Band F so would be £5725.00 ex Vat.
£165.00 ex vat per month.
You are on a market A exchange so there is an OFCOM surcharge of £60.00/month ex Vat also on a 36 month contract"
I did think the £60 was a bit strange though, don't suppose you'd be able to do some digging on it at all?
Edited by Nitro93 (Sun 21-Jan-18 19:26:34)
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There is no Ofcom mandated £60/m surcharge, most likely to do with what backhaul provider they are able to use at the handover node.
GEA-FTTP and FoD has uniform pricing across the UK, but the commercial backhaul options will vary.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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That makes more sense, cheers Andrew!
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Any further info on what an AGG is, or how I might be able to find out?
More importantly, if I did want to investigate this properly. Where do I go? Who do I speak to??! I suspect ringing the usual BT Broadband line would be fairly fruitless!
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It is the node that feeds multiple splitters, so can cope with around 1400 FTTP lines (if brain recalls correct late on a Sunday), this means an aggregation node may serve multiple cabinets. They are located so that if the FTTC was replaced by FTTP there would be no need for a new aggregation node, so 4 cabinets serving 1350 premises would probably all share an aggregation node.
They are underground in a larger pavement chamber so looking for 3 slab long BT chamber, but these do exist in places that are not aggregation nodes too.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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It doesn�t have to be in a three lidder (a JF10) will fit comfortably in two lidded JF6, and even found occasionally in a single JF4.
But as you said, many of these the poster may happen across will surely not contain it.
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I could walk for miles in a 360' circle and not see much, it's rural. I was kind of hoping there was an online checker like SamKnows/Kitz that could point the agg out. Never mind.
In order to "officially enquire" about the options, who do I call/email/speak to?!
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A provider like Cerberus or Spectrum Internet who sell the FoD product
Andrew
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I've heard Fluid One are due to announce their new prices this week.
Be interesting to see how they compare with the old ones.
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BT Wholesale Pricing (all excluding VAT)
330/30 Annual Rental - £636 (12 month contract)
330/30 Connection Charge - £495
Cancellation Charge (after survey is carried out but before build starts) - £245.14
The survey will cover the quotation for ECCs and as FoD is a new infrastructure build, the ECCs will cover nearly all of the installation cost of the network build.
The delivery timescales and cost of ownership are not expected to change relative to the current FoD service.
When a new FoD order is completed, nearby addresses will be made GEA-FTTP available. As part of the new infrastructure build, Openreach will build the network to support as many nearby addresses as possible with conventional brownfield FTTP. Additionally enabled premises will be subject to build costs, which are expected to be closer to existing brownfield site costs.
BT Wholesale will be launching 500/165Mb/s and 1000/220Mb/s FoD services at some point in 2018. There are no plans to support 160/30Mb/s and 330/50Mb/s FoD at the moment.
Existing FoD services will remain subject to the existing terms and conditions (3 year minimum contract).
Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Jan-18 11:12:04)
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Thanks for the update.
Will properties close to existing FoD live properties be able to order native FTTP at some point in the future? Just that one of my neighbours keeps pestering me when they will be able to order native FTTP. Postcode is IV2 5FJ
Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Jan-18 11:51:07)
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This bit I'm not sure about because the FoD would have been built solely for you, rather than planned for others too.
There should be an update about this tomorrow at the ISP Forum.
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What does "brownfield" mean here?
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Brownfield is a site which has already been built on and there is existing infrastructure.
Greenfield is a new site which has not been built on and there is no infrastructure.
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I�m still none the wiser as to who I should speak to, in order to explore my options.
If I were to call �BT Broadband� and start going on about FTTPoD I�m certain my call handler in Mumbai would be lost for words. I doubt there�s a script for that.
Do I call BT OpenReach? Do they liaise with mere mortals like I?
Ive put 2+2 together and found Cerberus and Fluid but are they my only options?
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In terms of BT Retail, watch this space. It is coming as an Infinity build to order product (no dates yet).
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I�m still none the wiser as to who I should speak to, in order to explore my options.
If I were to call �BT Broadband� and start going on about FTTPoD I�m certain my call handler in Mumbai would be lost for words. I doubt there�s a script for that.
Do I call BT OpenReach? Do they liaise with mere mortals like I?
Ive put 2+2 together and found Cerberus and Fluid but are they my only options? OpenReach don't deal with the public. BT Retail don't sell FTTPod. Until they do it would be pointless speaking to them.
You really answered your own question. You need to speak to a company who sells the product.
Cerberus, FluidOne and Spectrum (south Wales only?) are the only companies I'm aware of who sell FTTPod. They may not be in a position to tell you about the new pricing yet though.
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Thanks John - clear and concise info 
Thanks also to AndyH, that Infinity Build to Order sounds interesting.
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Yes, they are not in a position to explain about new pricing.
Cerberus get pricing via BT Wholesale and nothing seems to have been announced yet, so I am waiting patiently for updates.
Regards PGre
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Cerberus are the first to post details following the Openreach price changes:
https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...
No mention of monthly cost and only 330/30 available, but importantly contract is confirmed to be 12 months.
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I have requested an initial estimate from them the other day and hopefully should hear back from the desk survey in about two weeks at which point I will need to decide if I'm going ahead with the full survey which has a ~£250 cancelation fee.
I was told that the monthly cost will likely be less that £100 ex vat but I should find that out when the initial survey comes through.
I'm hoping that as I live in a large FTTC suburban estate that as the green boxes are located outside of each estate that there will be a reasonable discount for houses past and not to much distance they have to cover(and charge for).
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That's interesting, it sounds like they are altering the monthly cost to the customer to absorb some of the install fee. Slightly odd -I thought that with the new Openreach (& Wholesale?) pricing the monthly cost was fixed to native FTTP levels. So really the monthly cost to the provider should not change despite the survey outcome.
Looking at monthly cost for their other packages
FTTP 300/50 - £62.50
Gfast 300/50 - £62.50 without (line rental)
So I would expect the monthly rate to be around £62.50....
Edited by deleted (Sat 03-Feb-18 13:02:16)
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So I would expect the monthly rate to be around £62.50....
They would be selling it at a loss at this rate.
The new BT Wholesale line rental for FoD (330/30) is £53 a month.
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Thank you Andy,
For comparison what is the Wholesale rate for FTTP 330/50?
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For comparison what is the Wholesale rate for FTTP 330/50?
https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service...
£26 a month if you also have line rental or £35 a month without line rental.
G.fast is a little cheaper, £23 a month for the 330/50 package.
All these prices are excl VAT and BT Wholesale won't be supplying the 330/50 FoD (just the 330/30 product).
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Am I right in thinking that after one year is up, it would be possible to move to any standard FTTP package?
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Yes. After the minimum period, it moves to a native GEA-FTTP line.
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I'm hoping that as I live in a large FTTC suburban estate that as the green boxes are located outside of each estate that there will be a reasonable discount for houses past and not to much distance they have to cover(and charge for). It's not priced from the cabinet, but the nearest fibre aggregation node. This is usually further away than your cabinet.
You also don't get a discount for every property passed by the fibre they lay to your property.
I'm not sure on exactly how they work it out but I would guess they only count properties that would be served by your fibre DP.
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ahh ok - thats a bit of a bummer - is there anyway to know where the node is or just a case of wait and see with the survey.
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Just wondering if anyone has had any pricing back yet? I'm still waiting on my quote but I'm hoping it comes through anytime now as its been 2 weeks.
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I've been told that there's been a delay to the new pricing being offered by Openreach and the new pricing is expected to go live on Feb 23rd rather than Feb 1st. Whatever's behind this might be causing delays to quotes. That's a total guess on my part though.
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Just wondering if anyone has had any pricing back yet?
Not yet, only been a week since I logged the cost estimate request with Cerberus though.
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Openreach pricing went live from 1 Feb.
BT Wholesale pricing goes live from 23 Feb.
There are no delays as these dates were announced some time ago.
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Yep.. I am still waiting also.
Regards PGre
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Still waiting for pricing from Cerberus, called them earlier in the week and they said it would take ~two weeks to get the estimates. It would be helpful if their enquiry system sent a confirmation email / enquiry tracking number so you could check progress.
Mark Leman
-----------------------------------------
All spelling mistooks (C) me |
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That makes more sense than what FluidOne told me (that it'd been delayed from 1st Feb to 23rd Feb). Although it's slightly concerning that they don't understand the pricing and dates properly!
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I know this might be a newbie question. But I went on the FluidOne site and clicked contact and its wanting a company name in the contacting information. I'm assuming everyone here isn't a business person? What are you guys putting in the Company Name box?
Demon => Freeserve => Pipex => Be => Sky => BT Infinity 2
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You could try "N/A" and see if FluidOne have any issue with that. I'm sure they'll contact you if it is a problem.
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I know this might be a newbie question. But I went on the FluidOne site and clicked contact and its wanting a company name in the contacting information. I'm assuming everyone here isn't a business person? What are you guys putting in the Company Name box? I believe FluidOne were only selling FTTPod to business customers, registered with Companies House.
Just because the 3 year contract is now 1 year doesn't mean they have to change their stance on business customers only.
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Please remember that under OfCom regulations and, I believe, EU law - the maximum term allowed for a 'broadband' or 'phone' contract for a private individual is 24 months.
FluidOne should not sign you to a contract unless you are a validated business.
If you are self employed, I believe that you are still treated as as private individual - so really you would need to order as a Limited Company.
I'd advise that you wait a week or so - while the recent BT Openreach changes (as of 1st Feb) mean that they are now offering a 1 year contract term - it seems to be taking a while for everything to filter through the channel.
When I checked during the week, it was looking like Fluid One were still going to insist on a 3 year term under the new rules. I believe Cerberus will most likely offer a 1 year term. However, until BT Wholesale make things a lot clearer, that is not certain in either case.
That means that after year 1, you should be able to flip your contract to normal FTTP, saving maybe 30%+, and possibly avail of future 500 or 1000 MBit speeds. And, prices I saw for new 'post change' contracts put Cerberus at well over 50% savings vs. Fluid One!
For the moment, I'd say hold off on any decision - there is too much to shake down in the next couple of weeks.
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