FTTPOD

So have just requested pricing from Cerberus and they have emailed back the below:

Thanks for looking at the availability of FTTP services on our website. FTTP on Demand is available at this location.

FTTPoD services involve the building out of FTTP infrastructure to your premises and the installation price varies between addresses depending on the amount of work required. Under the new pricing structure effective from 1st February, this price will be provided initially as an estimate based on a desk survey by BT. The lead time is currently two weeks.

At present, FTTPoD is only available as a 300/30Mbps service. We are currently finalising our rental pricing but this is expected to be under £100.00 ex Vat per month and will have a 12 month minimum term. The service includes unlimited usage. Faster FTTP services are expected to become available later this year.

Please let me know if you would like me to submit a no-obligation pricing request to BT. We will then send you the initial build price estimate together with a confirmed rental price. For the initial pricing request, we would need the following information from you:

Name:
Telephone Number:
Address:
Post code:
Email Address:

The next step after the desk survey would be to place an order for the service. BT would then carry out a full survey and confirm the installation pricing. If you decide not to go ahead after the full survey, you would pay only the £250.00 ex Vat cancellation fee to cover the cost of the survey.

Lead time for installation of services is a minimum of 60 working days from completion of survey.

If you have any questions, please give me a call


I have told them to go ahead and request pricing and will update when received, my view is take the hit for 12 months and then I can move to a FTTP product which will end up costing the same as my current FTTC, yes the initial install will potentially be the cost of an expensive holiday.

Don't know if they mentioned this but they are expecting the total cost to be roughly the same as the old pricing.

Yes, unfortunately so, especially over the course of 3 years...

The new product is 12 months so construction costs are where the increase will be - I was previously in band C(£1750 - 400m to 599m), think I'm around 340m from the cabinet(don't know where aggregation node is) - be interesting to see how much higher construction costs are.

Aggregation nodes are inside the cabinets, unless specifically placed elsewhere.

Edited by deleted (Mon 05-Feb-18 17:48:12)

Interesting, I haven't heard that before.

Oh no they are not.

Aggregation nodes are in a pavement chamber, some will be co located with the VDSL2 cabinet i.e. chamber a couple of feet away but each aggregation node can serve 1400 premises so not all cabinets get their own node.

That's what I meant, sorry should've been more specific. However, I haven't seen any aggregation nodes being installed round here, and I've recently been able to order FTTPoD...

Edited by deleted (Mon 05-Feb-18 18:48:30)

You said the nodes were inside the cabinets, which they are not, or elsewhere which is true. You probably haven't seen any being installed because they could have done months or years ago and you don't know where they are.

Yeah, sorry, like I said should've been more clearer. That's interesting, so basically some nodes have been installed for a long time, but have only just been activated for orders recently?

They use the existing aggregation node that was already serving the FTTC cabinets. That's why you need to be connected to am FTTC cab to order FTTPod.

Hmm, no mention of any reduction if several subscribers on parts of the same build I thought I'd heard mentioned?

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

Hmm, no mention of any reduction if several subscribers on parts of the same build I thought I'd heard mentioned?

Pretty sure this would come up after the desk survey or field survey, they need to be able to see which houses in their opinion are passed by the PON build. Be interesting to see what it is after these are discounted!

Hey MrSaffron - is there any way to tell which pavement chambers are the aggregation node so I can keep an eye out when walking the dog.

Nope

I was under the impression the discount was only if a "group" order was placed. Round my way we are looking at FoD to get better speeds and if everyone who has expressed interest carries it through there will be 47 properties in the order.

This is correct.

It remains to be seen which ISP/s would be able to offer multiple orders. It's something that will be quite bespoke and most likely not compatible with online ordering systems.

Isn;t there also meant to be a discount for every property "passed"? But what does "passed" mean - if there are houses on both sides of the street do they both count - or only the ones on the side where the duct is.

Premises served by the PON the customer ordering FoD has created are counted towards the discount.

So if a property was across the road and it would be served by the same manifold then it would count.

The inclusions and exclusions is something I need to make a trip to London and spend a morning going through theoretical scenarios so can answer these questions.

I�m sorry but ISPs can�t complain about Openreach�s independence if they continually refer to it as �BT�, it seems to me like nearly all of them do this.

Joining this thread whilst we're on the FTTPoD topic...

Have any ISPs released their new post 01/02/2018 monthly pricing?
Have any new ISPs previously not offering FTTPoD jumped on the wagon following the OpenReach pricing change?

Quite true, it could be an initial stumbling block if we do decide to go ahead with it.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I�m sorry but ISPs can�t complain about Openreach�s independence if they continually refer to it as �BT�, it seems to me like nearly all of them do this.

Did I miss something or is this quote from Wikipedia still relevant:

"In March 2017, after various negotiations and demands with Ofcom, BT plc agreed to divest Openreach's staff and non-network assets into a legally separate company, Openreach Limited. However, the network assets would still be owned by BT plc to ensure the longevity of leases and covenants, and Openreach Limited would still be wholly owned by BT plc's parent holding company, BT Group plc"?

If that holds, would it be preferable for ISPs to refer to "BT Group plc's wholly owned subsidiary Openreach" rather than the shorthand "BT"?

In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:

Yeah, sorry, like I said should've been more clearer. That's interesting, so basically some nodes have been installed for a long time, but have only just been activated for orders recently?

They were originally put there to aggregate FTTC backhaul circuits so will have been doing that. They aren't sitting idle in the ground waiting for FTTPoD orders.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I�m sorry but ISPs can�t complain about Openreach�s independence if they continually refer to it as �BT�, it seems to me like nearly all of them do this.

Did I miss something or is this quote from Wikipedia still relevant:

"In March 2017, after various negotiations and demands with Ofcom, BT plc agreed to divest Openreach's staff and non-network assets into a legally separate company, Openreach Limited. However, the network assets would still be owned by BT plc to ensure the longevity of leases and covenants, and Openreach Limited would still be wholly owned by BT plc's parent holding company, BT Group plc"?

If that holds, would it be preferable for ISPs to refer to "BT Group plc's wholly owned subsidiary Openreach" rather than the shorthand "BT"?

Why not just call it Openreach? As BT Group themselves do.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Why not just call it Openreach? As BT Group themselves do.

Which BT Group management would no doubt prefer as it lets them off the hook when one of their group companies comes in for criticism despite the fact it is their responsibility.

Interesting (and sad) that Cerberus have come back saying they are not going to offer the other speed options now available. I enquired via their website several days ago but have not had a reply yet.

Fluidone have replied and told me the same . So it looks like no ISP has taken up the option of offering the new faster FTTPod offerings.

I would order the 1000/220 provided the price was not astronomical. We currently have a microwave link that I tested at 140/40 recently but it has bouts of unreliability and costs an arm and a leg. A FTTP link at 1000/220 even contended 10:1 would be acceptable. ISPs normally suggest we get a leased line, but last time we were quoted the ECCs were >$9k.

IMHO it would be much easier if Openreach could offer (via a suitable intermediary as they are wholesale) a service to install the Fibre 'on demand' and then leave the line as a standard FTTP line ready, so that any ISP could use it. I think many ISPs just don't want to take on the extra hassle of the 'on demand' install.

Why not order FTTPoD 330/30 now to at least get a FTTP line installed? I believe BT Wholesale will start selling the higher tier packages (0.5 & 1 Gig) on native FTTP lines sometime this year so once you've completed the min term on FTTPoD (12 months) you should have a choice of ISPs for the higher tiers.

Edited by deleted (Thu 08-Feb-18 06:30:06)

>Why not order FTTPoD 330/30 now

That is my current plan. It is a shame to do it this way, we tend to like to stick with an ISP who proves reliable ( we have used zen for dsl lines for almost 15 years ) so dumping the FTTPod ISP after 12 months would not be my first choice, however if they are not going to sell the service we have little choice.

A lot could change over 12 months. I'm guessing that they aren't offering yet as the take up is likely to be very low.

I believe the higher tiers (500 & 1000) have higher fixed connection fees anyway.

Openreach price list shows £92 for everything up to (and including) 330/50. The other two have a connection fee of £500.

Changing the bandwidth for any FTTPoD plan is charged at £11.25.

Of course, these are just the Openreach charges and the ISPs will have their own numbers, but is there anything stopping someone ordering 330/50 with the lower connection fee and then upgrading to a higher bandwidth plan?

Makes sense, thanks.

Differences install fee I thought was done to a move towards XGPON (10 Gbps) for those who order the top two speed products, so upgrading if you have FTTP is likely to carry a fee that offsets this.

Yes, but only if you have a log into the Openreach website and access the to correct tools

I spoke to one of the two FTTPOD ISPs this time last week, and specifically asked them about the higher speed tiers which are coming - but not available to order through BTWholesale yet.

As they are in the dark about upgrade path - at worst to get the faster speeds when available the suggestion was that (if still in the 12 month contract) then signing up to another 12 months would likely enable upgrading to the faster speed immediately. Note - This wasn't a commitment, but seemed to their mind a plausibility given the line will show FTTP availability on the openreach system from activation as FTTPod.

Obviously this probably only makes sense if things are changed within the first few months of a contract and another ISP is the customer choice in due course, but given lead times to line activation are several months from today's date if ordered today - it may be clearer what the implications are if you want 1000mbps at a later date.

So I spoke with Cerberus about paying my entire 3 year bill off in one go. I just wanted it out of the way. I would be a free agent then, but no reason to leave and also since I paid for 3 years up front, I don't have no monthly rental.

I then thought I could upgrade as soon as 500/165 or 1000/220 came out, but no one has a clue

In reply to a post by MarkLeman:

Interesting (and sad) that Cerberus have come back saying they are not going to offer the other speed options now available. I enquired via their website several days ago but have not had a reply yet.

I've been exchanging emails with Cerberus today (08/02/18) and the following was included amongst a reply I had from them:

"Faster FTTP services are expected to become available later towards the end of this year."

This would seem to suggest that they will be expanding beyond the current 330/30 only FTTPoD package later in 2018.