Ahhh back to the good old days of having to figure out what the best modem is to try and get a better speed, then what the best settings are, then endless testing to tweak it, then monitoring it to make sure it doesnt drop in performance, then praying a bit of rain doesnt screw it all up every time.

Oh how I missed not having to do any of this with my simple life at VM for the last 10 years haha. Get VM hub, switch to modem only, plug in Asus, get instant 220mb speeds on a 200mb line with a 7ms ping and zero issues for 10 years. Forced to move to BT's archaic FTTC [censored] because VM have never bothered to extend C&W's cables 1 road over, and will now have to spend weeks and months fiddling with it to get the best I can from it.

I am kinda leaning towards grabbing AAISP for the 6 month contract at first because I have no idea how good or bad the line is at the new flat until after I move in and get it connected, and I trust AA will get it functioning at its optimum. I just need to check my current usage with VM to see what package I will need. Then I can choose to move to BT or someone else when i know everything is set up properly if I still think AA is not worth the premium. No need to make a decision until the start of April so I have some time to think about it. I am likely to either go for BT because you get more and its cheaper (just hope the line is good and properly optimised already), or AA.

Edited by Ewok (Mon 19-Feb-18 09:08:27)

There is nothing wrong with a BT based FTTC connection.

The modems, at least the openreach ones just plug in and work. There is no endless tweaking of any kind. Plug in, off you go.

I have had a stable line from 2012 across multiple properties.

Nothing makes virgins network intrinsically better, in many regards FTTC is better eg for congestion. Both are different networks which both deliver good service.

In all fairness trying out multiple modems is counter productive as it will not encourage DLM to give you good speeds. Plug one device in, leave it and forget it. You can do zero tweaking manually as the line is managed by DLM, gone are the ADSL days where you could tweak the noise margin etc.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 19-Feb-18 11:07:21)

I see. I have just been reading comments in reviews about AAISP and how they have managed to get quite a few poorly performing lines to work much better after people had spent months trying to get other providers to fix it. They seem to be able to diagnose things better than BT themselves can and push to get it fixed where other isp's just fail.

My worry is if it is not a good line I know first hand how useless BT are at dignosing and fixing stuff after endless problems at my current address with the copper line that went to [censored] whenever it rained and after 18 months of the being hopeless, I switched to VM which has no such issues since theres no ancient copper to deal with. BT/openreach approach will be "its good enough" if my line gives me an inconsistent 40mb just above the minimum, where I would imagine AA could see certain issues that could be rectified to provide much better quality, and actually arrange to have that done. Thats my concern with BT that if it turns out to be poorer than I would like, having to deal with those idiots again that will probably run some generic test that doesnt diagnose the issue, and read [censored] from a script, and then I am stuck in an 18 month contract that technically meets the minimum requirements but should work better. Having said that, if the line is fine, and has no issues when it rains, and the BT network is not overloaded, then I expect I will probably get the same performance on BT as with anyone else.

I have the TalkTalk FTTC capped package (i think its capped at 38 Mbps) and have the TT D-Link router mentioned earlier in the thread, my speeds are rock solid and the only problem i have had since my switch was a very old and corroded master socket slowing my speeds which was changed for the newer type shortly after an online chat with TT customer service, i find on line chat the best method as you can take screen shots of the conversation.

I have been a TT customer many years and would recommend them even though phone support has a bad reputation (the reason i use online chat if i need to contact them)

Edit to add - To be fair i recently cancelled my TT Mobile contract and moved to O2 as TT are no longer providing a mobile service i did this by phone and the people i dealt with on a couple of separate calls were very helpful so not all call centre staff are a waste of space as some customers would have you believe.


Speed test taken a few minutes ago - https://s14.postimg.org/ew228x0u9/ggggggggg.jpg

.

Edited by deleted (Mon 19-Feb-18 12:14:10)

You will be provided a speed estimate, and a minimum guaranteed speed. A significant fault is likely to take you outside of this fault threshold, or where it does not, there is possibly going to be audible noise on the landline side of things which can be reported as a voice fault, which in turn will resolve the broadband issues.

If the speeds are just lower than you would like, but the line is stable, indeed they will not issue an engineer unless it's below the threshold... If there are regular drop-outs, indeed they will issue an engineer.

Casing point, virginmedia do not have a particular better track record than other mass market ISPs for resolving faults.

AAISP are known for resolving faults better than others, agreed, although a formal complaint to BT executive complaints will get you a complaints handler, with a direct email address and phone number to a UK based person. They have been known to do things e.g dig up metres of pathway to get issues resolved, my gut feeling is if you know who to raise an issue with, which we certainly do, you won't be stuck talking to script monkeys. BT executive team track to completion with the complaints handler, their primary objective is to ensure the case does not hit the ombudsman, or escalate further.

To date, I have only seen 2 cases without resolution, out of the many 100s I know have gone to that team. In those 2 cases it was largely unrealistic expectations, ie expecting the very best speeds beyond the speed estimates, and reaching a stage where they were never going to be satisfied as they would not work with the team.

EDIT: as above (Chippy_Tea_) no issues with Talktalk other than CS, which was really bad.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 19-Feb-18 12:16:51)

Ok thanks. I have much to consider. I need something rock solid, reliable, with the lowest possible ping, and no slowdowns during peak. The trick is getting that for the best price. Between me and the exchange it will be the same on every ISP, it's the bit beyond that which I expect could differ greatly, or perhaps they are all very similar these days. I still read people complaining about slowdowns during peak times and poor pings, what I can't tell is whether that is the openreach part, or their own ISP's part causing it.

If I were to sign up to BT for example, I suspect I have some sort of timeframe with which I can cancel it? So If they install it and I find it is not as good as I would like, I could cancel it (I guess within 14 days?) and not be tied to the 18 months? That at least lets me try it and ditch it if it doesn't perform. Just not sure if this 'cooling off period' is from date of order or from activation. I am more inclined to try one of the cheaper ones like BT to test it out, as long as I can ditch it without being stuck with them for a year or more.

I do not believe cooling off exists once service goes live, unless the speed provided is outside of the speeds promised. Cooling off is typically up-to go-live date provided it is within the cooling off window (10 or 14 days depending usually). Where the service is out of contract, and you can demonstrate this, indeed you can leave.

RE the exchange, not really the case as on fibre the local exchange is often bypassed. FTTC goes to a head-end exchange, sort of a master exchange which could serve 10+/20+ ADSL exchanges. This is one reason why congestion is not so typical on FTTC, since the ratios are so large, ie so many users hit the same equipment, you really would not want a slowdown at the head-end exchange which impacts say 50,000 users. They have to get things right. The green FTTC cabs go back to the head-end.

Congestion is ISP dependant, although due to the network topology on FTTC, all the standard players BT, Sky, TalkTalk, PlusNet etc rarely experience this congestion.

Congestion indeed was more common on ADSL where exchanges were more localised, and hence smaller subset of users affected (similar to Virginmedias setup at current where congestion becomes extremely local, not whole cities).

Things like netflix streaming, YouTube etc are dependant on the CDNs and again the typical providers have this setup well to ensure the data is routed the most efficient way.
https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netfli...

At the headend, each provider has their own equipment and own fibre provision. Again, I would not worry, I would regard them all the same in your shoes.

The real difference is customer support, and some smaller ISPs have congestion.

Between me and the exchange it will be the same on every ISP, it's the bit beyond that which I expect could differ greatly, or perhaps they are all very similar these days. I still read people complaining about slowdowns during peak times and poor pings, what I can't tell is whether that is the openreach part, or their own ISP's part causing it.

FWIW, it's not the 'Openreach part' that causes the that kind of slowdown.

I need something rock solid, reliable, with the lowest possible ping, and no slowdowns during peak. The trick is getting that for the best price.

The trick is understanding that all those things generally do not sit well together ... I say pay a bit more.

Ok so basically as things stand now, best bet is probably to go with a larger provider and whoever has the best deal at the time. I will use netflix and a fair bit of online gaming (FPS which will need a low stable ping and good routing).

Customer service part is the risk, but if things are working as they should then I would hope not to need them anyway. Plus like you said if I did need them then people around here will probably know the best route to take for support.

Edited by Ewok (Mon 19-Feb-18 13:32:50)

Yes, based on my activity on BT Forums, London-wise congestion seems fine on BT... Of course I may have missed the odd thing.

& based on my posts on Sky Forums, there is some congestion dotted around London. Last I noted it was North London most affected (Enfield way) struggling to get above 720P on streams during evenings, despite speedtests showing full speed. Nothing major, it just caps out the streams on Netflix, YouTube etc at 720P - most users watching on "auto" mode do not notice as the stream plays albeit lower quality. I have not followed up much since it was reported late 2017.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 19-Feb-18 14:23:22)