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All the broadband checkers say a property we are buying Wales has FTTP. I find it hard to believe as no one else in the area has it, nor seems to be able to order it, yet it is quite important to my work for it to be correct.
I've done all I can with BT, getting to the point of ordering for example to kick off a survey (didn't finalise order as we don't own the property and they wanted to install within 2 days), but with little success in determining either way (I guess that means it looks good).
In an effort to try to ascertain if the cables look like they are as epxected, I took some photos of the poles leading up to the house. I wonder if anyone could comment on how they splice(?) into the fibre cable to connect to the property?
The nearest splitter box (as pictured) is around 35 meters away (some way before the pole which has telephone cable feeding the property) and to my completely uneducated eye, looks as if it may be terminated there? Would they run it from there, or cut into fibre cable where current phone line is?
Here are the speed checkers (the telephone number has since been disconnected during the owners move, so unable to run tests on a telephone number any more):
BT DSL checker:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gVL4cnDObCQYHmqzzn...
BT Products:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Qv5fGdrptV0ecuo7on...
Telegraph pole nearest property where telephone line (copper?) connects to house:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PpNE7fJkgzsX-qH8-c...
Nearest sign of FTTP, on telegraph pole 35* meters from property, towards exchange (which is some 3 miles away). There are no more of these boxes beyond this one, moving away from exchange. Is it terminated here? Would they run it from here to house?:
* - actually looks more than 35 metres in picture (house in background) - may be further away
Splitter box:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tmhsxHD16sCb_uo2cr...
Top of Pole:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_rvZIss5zUfSaxVs0V...
Around 80 metres away, just a couple of poles (in exchange direction), from pole pictured above:
Extra Joint box:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lNP7Rg7tf2V3AnEvFb...
Top of pole:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1trymM2F5Nfg0i07OSm...
Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Feb-18 18:09:43)
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What does this say for the address (use the �Address Check� at the bottom of the page, put the postcode in the next page and then choose the individual property from the drop down list)?:
The second of your photos shows an (unused) manifold - your new connection would be run from there.
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Hi AL66,
Here is the DSL checker run from address (didn't realise you could do that):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-J6mUbWWQrNZbHPVCY...
That second pic you mention looks odd to me as a thick cable with a yellow line on it goes into it, then goes back up the pole to what looks like some sort of terminator? (the next picture is the top of that pole)
Seems odd to have two of those green boxes which you refer to as a manifold only 2 telegraph poles away from each other. There are only 3-4 hours within 1/2 mile radius, and none have fttp.
Guess I'm concerned that they ran out of distance before they got to the property, as there are no manfold boxes beyond these.
Do they turn up with a cherry picker and run it all the way to the house from there? Why wouldn't they place it nearer the house in the first place?
Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Feb-18 18:20:03)
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Manifold is the black plastic bottle at the top of the pole, if there was a live customer you would see a smaller tube exiting the top of the bottle (wander around town as suspect you'll find some live ones given the amount of FTTP in town)
Green box is a fibre splitter with fibre trays in it
Black cable with yellow stripe is fibre tubing that the actual fibre gets blown down.
The manifold box can be some distance from you, what you want is a manifold (block bottle thing) at top of pole.
If the checker says yes for the address then yes suggests that are reality happy to run it that distance, but without engineering staff on the ground to answer the question cannot say for sure, i.e. you need to order to find out.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The pictured green �box thing� is a fibre DP node. The pole top jobbie is a blown fibre manifold.
They will run BFT from the manifold to a CBT on your exterior wall. The fibre lead in will be run to the ONT from there,
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Nope, that�s a DP node, the ID starting DA.... shows this.
The splitter is more likely in a footway box elsewhere ... or maybe in a similar green housing but marking starts TS ....
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Thanks guys.
Didn't see any footway boxes, in fact these are the only boxes for some considerable distance (travelling towards exchange)
So whats the max distance from that manifold thingy at top of pole to house?
Any suggestions on how I could know for sure that FTTP is ok?
Owners have moved on, but we don't own it yet. I was trying to trigger a survey by starting then cancelling an order, but the representative said they wanted to do stage 1 install within 2 days, so sounded as though they wanted to do survey and stage 1 together, and therefore there was no point in ordering then cancelling, exepcially as I'd probably not stop them in time!
I should add that the representative I think mentioned "brown field" when I asked about whether the phone would be VOIP - they said it wouldn't be, it would be a copper line for that. (not sure what all that means, nor why the phone couldn't be VOIP with that sort of bandwidth?)
Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Feb-18 18:42:17)
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If the DSL checker result I pointed you to show the same results as you got previously for the old phone number (they should do) you can be confident you�ll be able to order in due course. Could take a while from order to working service though.
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The distance can be very long indeed.
Choose a provider and order ....
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Doh - will try to remember the TS/DA notation
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The pictured green �box thing� is a fibre DP node. The pole top jobbie is a blown fibre manifold.
They will run BFT from the manifold to a CBT on your exterior wall. The fibre lead in will be run to the ONT from there,
CBT not CSP? Typo I guess? 
FTTP 80/20 Mbps
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Yep, sorry.
CBT = Connectorised Block Terminal
CSP = Customer Splice Point (what I meant in this case)
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You've both lost me!
Switching subject a little..why would they want to connect the phone line via the copper line and not VOIP?
And does this mean that I could not run a (non bt) voip phone over the fibre?
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Yes, you can run VOIP service OK.
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As VoIP would be over the IP layer there is nothing to stop you using a VoIP service, i.e. its just another IP connection, connection medium is irrelevant.
Generally only in locations that have NO copper is the FibreVoiceAccess (FVA) element used.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Thanks - silly question I guess, but why does one need to order a telephone line at all when I could run a non bt voip service over FTTP - is this simply because BT's systems use a telephone number as the account identifier, and its quite profitable not to correct it?
I don't believe (though I may be wrong) there's a way to order fttp without having a BT telephone number.
[EDIT: Looks like I am correct: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13733/~/do-i-need-a-bt-landline-to-get-bt-infinity%3F ]
Edited by deleted (Tue 27-Feb-18 17:47:11)
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With BT retail you have to have a phone line (old school copper or Fibre Voice Access) and pay the line rental component.
If you were to use Plusnet you can effectively end up without the phone line by cancelling the line rental (they only supply the phone service over copper) and pay the £2.50 surcharge instead of the line rental. You have to make your own arrangements for a phone service (VoIP supplier of your choice).
Downside of Plusnet is they only offer FTTP as a �trial� service at the same speeds as FTTC, so 80/20 is the fastest currently available.
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Other providers like Zen Internet will also do a data only FTTP conection.
So its a choice of the ISP
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Deepest mid Wales doesn't have much choice of supplier - only BT as far as I can see.
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Where you are doesn�t make a difference, the same suppliers available - admittedly a fairly short list compared to FTTC.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Thanks I'll take a look.
Does that pole picture sugest that there is capacity for more connections or does it depend on further down the line also?
I'm thinking that I may have to agree with seller to do the install before completing the sale.
Is it safe to assume that once the stage 1 install is done , then all will be ok?
(presumably that is the box on the outside wall)
They might be more amenable to that than the stage 2 install inside the property.
Edited by deleted (Tue 27-Feb-18 19:34:54)
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Stopping an order between stage 1 and stage 2 is not something I've seen done
The manifold (bottle) we have seen currently has zero live connections
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I guess I could delay stage 2 for a week or so at least.
But does stage 1 completion mean its guaranteed to be ok?
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You're over thinking things.
It says the service is available. If there was capacity issues it would not show available.
You've been advised from the pictures you provided that the necessary infrastructure is in place, and isn't over subscribed.
But does stage 1 completion mean its guaranteed to be ok? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. Stage 1 is getting the fibre to the CSP on your property. Any issues would show up at this stage.
Place your order and enjoy the benefits of FTTP.
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I know it looks like I'm overthinking it, but when you realise that a house purchase depends on it, and that I've been in a bit of a pickle with BT before (not with FTTP, but leased line some years ago), I need to make as sure as possible.
Otherwise I'll have a lovely house...but unable to work there ( I work from home).
So when they do stage 1, are test's done on the fibre signal? Chances are stage 2would be done after purchase completion, hence the question.
And do they tend to run the fibre cable on the same route (i.e. from nearest telegraph pole to house, which is not the one with the fibre node) as the old copper one, or is that variable?
Do they tend to put the csp box at ground level (the current copper line enters near roof, and do the house owners need to be there to tell them where to put it? (I ask because I thought the BT representative said no one needs to be there for stage 1 install).
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Whether tests are done or not is irrelevant since signal can travel many kilometres, worst case is a bad splice that needs re doing.
CSP is at ground level.
NOTE: Who is actually ordering?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I would do the order myself, once I hopefully get permission from the current owners that have moved out. I would delay stage 2 until completion of house purchase so wouldn't enter the premises or activate the service untl then. We are a matter of weeks(ish) away from exachnge/completion I would imagine.
I know it sounds as though I'm checking the obvious, but no one else in the immediate area (mountainous part of mid Wales) seems to be able to order it, I can't find anyone using it in a wider area, so I suspect I would be the first "testee".
I have witnessed one area a few miles away get fibre run to them, watch the DSL checkers say that fibre was available, only to see it drop back down to 2-3mb adsl, presumably (though I don't know for sure) after someone tried to get it installed (admittedly I don't know all the fact here and basing it on a chat with a local).
If it fails with this property, the adsl is running around 1mb and there is no 4g in the area, and very few free wifi, which would mean I'd basically have to work from a laptop in my car on 4g up a hill somewhere for the foreseeable future. Satellite broadband, for my partciular use would be problematic due to latency.
How does the BT engineer know where to put the CSP if there's no one present?
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You or your representative will need to be present for both stages which makes it rather difficult to order before you have bought the place.
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Really? When I tried to order (didn't proceed ) they (BT) said no one needs to be present for Stage 1?
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If you are worrying as much as you appear to be, then the only certain course is to not buy that home but only buy one with proven working full fibre in it.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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You're correct there, nobody needs to be there for Stage 1.
They will put the CSP anywhere accessible they want on the ground floor if nobody is present. If you have a preference for where you want the CSP then you will need to be there.
Someone over the age of 18 needs to be there for Stage 2.
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That's a worrying comment (allbeit bluntly true). Seems crazy to miss out on a lovely property which has taken us years to find on broadband alone, but I guess that happens.
There must be some way around this - if only I could speak to Openreach.
I realise its a difficult question, but I'll ask anyway: In your experience/oppinion, what are the chances, in percentage terms, (100% = OK) of:
1) There being no FTTP service to the house based on what I've said/shown;
2) There being no FTTP service to the house if stage 1 was completed (but not stage 2).
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1) 10% chance of no fttp - might be lower but would need to do map work and also visit area to verify everything
2) 0% once stage 1 done all fine - but would recommend someone be at property for stage 1 no matter what provider says, as providers are very poor at handling FTTP
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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If the FTTP is as critical as you say why not get the agreement of the current owners to place your order ahead of completion? Didn�t you say earlier Openreach wanted to do stage 1 within a couple of days?
You�ll need to be prepared to write off the costs of the install and minimum term contract if the sale falls through but cost of this would be insignificant compared to the overall costs of property purchase.
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You can request to be present when the step one is done ...
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@ AL66:
I'm just about to ask them for permission - I don't want to alarm them by accessing the property, so will try to arrange stage 1 asap, then stage 2 some time (weeks) later when hopefully the pruchase of house completes. So I'm only asking them for permission to access outside of property.
I would happily write of the costs and the 18 months contract to find out, but I was told that I could cancel at any point up to 14 days after activation - which in this case would not happen if (1) the house purchase fell through, or (2) the fttp was discovered not possible on stage 1.
So the worst case scanario (correct me if I am wrong) is that I may have to pay the installation costs, and the owners would have a new box on their wall.
The bt install looked very quick as you remind me, so I think stage 1 would be done within 2-3 days of order.
@MrSaffron:
It looks like doing stage 1 is worth it based on your experience
The only other option is Satellite, and on that subject I am going to Bicester next week to test Euopasat tarriffs at their head office. I am not sure how it will feel to do things like remote desktop to severs etc, and also the data limit is an issue.
Edited by deleted (Wed 28-Feb-18 11:34:19)
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I don't know who told you that you could cancel 14 days after activation, what's a whopper.
The 14 day cooling off period is from the date the order is placed. If service goes live in that 14 days then you are liable for activation and usage for those days.
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Really - that was the BT customer services rep - she was very clear about it being any time up to 14 days after activation - kept repeating it in fact.
This link seems to suggest she is correct:
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49679...
Either way I guess I could cancel after stage 1 before activation which would be after stage 2 I presume.
At the worst I cancel too late and have to pay the £575 (31.99 X 18).
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The existing copper line is overhead, attached to the property at gutter level or similar? Stage 1 the external fibre tube will be run overhead probably following the existing copper, down the wall of the property to ground level location for the customer splice point, no need to access the inside of the property. Good idea to be on site for this to make sure it gets put where you want it keeping in mind the route you want from there to the internal ONT location (stage 2).
Once you�ve got stage 1 done you should be able to stall stage 2 for a while if necessary, make up some excuses why you can�t be there for any offered appointment times. Once you�ve exchanged contracts hopefully the current owner/their solicitor will allow you access for stage 2 if that�s before completion.
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Why would you be cancelling? Surely if they can provide you are going to let the install go ahead?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Andrew, is there anyway of BBflash, getting a bt survey done (even if that costs him £100).. so that he can be sure if he can order fttp?
I know its not 100% full proof but surely this would solve the potential "if not" side.
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Not on the Openreach price lists as far as I am aware so not an option
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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@AL66
Thanks. The telephone cable is overhead from telegraph pole to gutter level of house.
I've measured the distance from the node connection on the pole to the house using Google Maps, and its around 112 meters (for some reason I'd thought it was 35), not including the 10 or so meters from last pole to corner of house:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U3JbCW69SKSxlQ_aw8...
I understand that they can run the single stand of fibre some way, but does this sound ok? Sounds a long way to me.
@MrSaffron:
I'd only cancel if something else stopped the house sale going through. Its an old property and quite complicated in some ways, but we're nearly there.
Edited by deleted (Wed 28-Feb-18 12:34:39)
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ahh fair enough.. Basically this is catch 22 and if it goes wrong the op is out of a job in a new home..
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Should be straightforward, they�ll run an empty fibre tube from the pole with the (unused) manifold at the top via the existing poles to the property, down the wall to a new CSP at ground level (has to be ground level as they won�t take the splicing machine up a ladder,etc). The empty fibre tube can either be a continuous length oR two or more sections joined with push fit plumbing style joints.
Once there�s a continuous tube path from the green box at the bottom of the pole with the manifold to the CSP the fibre will be blown through in a continuous length, don�t think it matters which end it�s blown from. There�ll be two fibre splices, one in the green box and one in the CSP.
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I see. So the total distance from manifold to house of I guess around 125-30 metres is ok?
Mindful of that expression on the DSL checked "OH Feed Not Evaluated"...
I'm guessing it depends on how hard the blower thing blows, but is there also a physical distance limit when it gets to a single strand from the manifold?
Edited by deleted (Wed 28-Feb-18 12:54:50)
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Should be fine, not sure what the maximum length that can be blown is (sure someone will say!) but it�s considerably further than you�ll need.
Wouldn�t worry about the �not evaluated� bit as if you can see the existing overhead copper then you�ve evaluated it!
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You or your representative will need to be present for both stages which makes it rather difficult to order before you have bought the place.
That's not true, they only need to be present for the internal work (stage 2), my next door neighbour was out at work for the external work, so the engineer installed the CSP box right by where the copper line enters the home.
It was the same for my neighbour across the road, he was on holiday for the external work, but he left instructions with BT on where he wanted the CSP installed.
I was at home for both external and internal work, so I could say where I wanted it all installed.
So no you don't need to be present for the external work, but it might be beneficial to you if you are.
Paul
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@AL66
Thanks. The telephone cable is overhead from telegraph pole to gutter level of house.
I've measured the distance from the node connection on the pole to the house using Google Maps, and its around 112 meters (for some reason I'd thought it was 35), not including the 10 or so meters from last pole to corner of house:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U3JbCW69SKSxlQ_aw8...
I understand that they can run the single stand of fibre some way, but does this sound ok? Sounds a long way to me.
They run the fibre from the same pole the copper line comes from.
If you want to PM me the Postcode and door number I will take a look, cannot promise anything though.
Paul
Edited by PaulKirby (Wed 28-Feb-18 20:14:11)
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So no you don't need to be present for the external work, but it might be beneficial to you if you are.
100% agree.
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reading this very interesting thread as I am in a similar situation., I wonder how it all turned out given it is almost 6 months since the last post?
I am told by Openreach in writing that FTTP is now available to order and that I should approach a provider and put in an order which will trigger a visit by a survey officer "to come out to see if it possible to get the fibre network to your address, what work will be required and if additional charges will be incurred".
The adsl checker says "2 stage" and "Single Dwelling Unit residential OH feed with no aniticipated issues". Openreach have said they did "check to see if we could associate your address with the existing fibre equipment but the maximum distance to provide FTTP is 150 metres from the fibre equipment to the premise and when measured the distance to your address it is 297 metres"
That is, I reckon, the true distance the existing OH copper line runs to a pole on which is mounted a green metal DP node(?) at roughly head height (?).
I don't know what would need to be done being some 150 metres over their limit but It sounds as though this could cost a lot..anyone have any (ball-park) idea of how much?..based on what information I have provided. I'd rather not place an order without having some idea. Thanks for reading.
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There seems some info which is at odds there ...
The adsl checker says "2 stage" and "Single Dwelling Unit residential OH feed with no aniticipated issues"
Would imply blown fibre tubing, which negates some of the distance constraints imposed by the connectorised method. So this goes against ... Openreach have said they did "check to see if we could associate your address with the existing fibre equipment but the maximum distance to provide FTTP is 150 metres from the fibre equipment to the premise and when measured the distance to your address it is 297 metres" rather.
The green joint you describe is a track node or a DP node ..... what you need to see is what is fitted at the tops of poles.
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If you order you won't be charged and no work will be done unless you agree to any excess construction charges.
OpenReach often cover the up to £1000 and you pay the rest.
BT have been known to absorb this cost if you choose them.
The fact it's a 2 stage install may even be beneficial to you as you won't be restrained by the fixed lengths of connectorised cable (don't quote me on that).
Until an order is placed and a survey done then nobody knows.
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hi Zarjaz and thanks for your post.
Yes I think I know what you are saying..blown fibre in tubing can be used for quite long distances so why the 150m "limit" that I was quoted? ( by someone in "Infrastructure solutions")...is that what you are getting at in terms of conflicting statements? To be honest I'm not sure what is meant by the "connectorised method" but I'll have a search. Assume that is sued for quite short lengths/distances?
Think all/any fibre would have to go overhead along existing line of poles.
Taken a few pictures of pole but how to post them here? There's the green metal cabinet about same dia as pole about head height..a black domed thing about half way up and from that thickish black with yellow striped cable runs up t oa black terminal screwed to top of wooden pole. This green "cabinet" is highly unlikely to be ever used by anyone other than us or our one neighbour about 100m away and neither of us are currently on fibre though it is, so say ,available to order for both of us.
p.s thanks John only saw your post after I'd replied to Zarjaz..you're right.
Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Aug-18 17:59:27)
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Also wondering how OP got on. Machynlleth is not far from me.
One thing that stood out is I've painstakingly been through many buildings on the DSL Checker and noted that only one came up as "OH Feed Not Evaluated". That was mine, and it turned out FTTP wasn't available. I may be wrong that seems almost like the default/placeholder text. Everything else checked was either: OH Feed No Anticipated Issues; OH Feed Line of Sight Problems Trees or OH Feed Potential Wayleave Issues.
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Hi All,
Sorry to not update.
The house purchase fell through as there were some issues about the property which came to light at the last minute. A real shame, but we continue our search in the area.
I never was 100% sure on the fibre. Technically it looked ok, but as someone here said, you only really know when you order, which I could not as I didn't own it. We asked if we could order it in preparation and pay total bill, but sellers refused. I'd got to the point where I'd almost satisified myself that a weak 4g signal (antenna up a long mast) would have to do if OpenReach didn't play ball.
In the end we got diverted with other concerns.
All the help here was absolutely fantastic, and I'm already using the advice (and equipment) when looking for new properties in the area. If I can be of any help to anyone with what I found out in the area, let me know or post here.
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And likewise I am just over the hill from Mach, keep in touch if you have any local broadband queries. Good luck in the property search; it's an absolutely beautiful area.
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Thank you I may well take you up on that offer.
The whole area is wonderful.
If you notice any small holdings in the area up for sale drop me a PM!
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To post pictures you need to upload them to an image hosting site, then provide a link in your post.
Currently Openreach, for its residential FTTP, use �Legacy� with blown fibre tubing, customer splice points, manifolds etc, with splicing required at various points OR a � connectorised � system where pre made fibre lead ins are just push-fit into the DP nodes, run to the property, brought to the ONT and then an end fitted allowance wing connection.
The second option is cheaper for the company as it means not having to train its staff to spice, and not having to equip them with expensive splicers. The pre-made connectorised reels come in various lengths, 160m being the longest OH one (there is longer, but for special orders only)
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Hi Zarjaz..thanks for that info. At 297 metres from the fibre node I can now see why Openreach used the 150m mark as a "limit" of sorts.. given what you have just said.
I think my neighbours would be just inside that limit but I am way over so no pre-made connectorised solution for me. Wonder what the cost of "legacy" would be..but as John said yesterday I guess the only way to find out is to "suck it & see"!
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I suspect you don�t get a legacy/connectorised choice. It�s based on how the infrastructure has already been made.
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If it says it is a 2 stage deployment then it uses the older splicing method.
If it says 1 stage then it uses the newer connectorised method.
The 2 stage deployment method won't have as many problems with longer distances due to not using fixed length cables.
You don't get to choose the method. The DSL checker will indicate if you're 1 stage or 2 stage.
All newer FTTP deployments are 1 stage connectorised I believe.
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All newer FTTP deployments are 1 stage connectorised I believe.
That�s a bit of a sweeping statement John.
Lots of the new sites stuff is still Legacy, or even a strange bastardisation with CBT and connectorised to the property, then an external CSP to join to twin fibre lead in, to an internal CSP to EeZee bend to the ONT (new estate opposite the old TRL in Crowthorne)
MDU is getting very varied in deployment too ...
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Believe there are also some spliced locations that are 1 stage install i.e. the CSP is already present
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Not a variation I�ve come across - but it is surely possible.
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