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Direct is disabled, so that people can see what they are clicking URL wise rather than auto loading images from everywhere
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I believe that function is disabled.
Interesting (to me) to note that the fibres coatings are red .... All the ones I've used have been white, and a a bit of a PITA to work with. Well done Corrning for actually listening and changing part of your product.
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Some of the pictures particularly the one with 'Property of BT' make the cable appear as a sort of double cable. What is the thin bit for?
Michael Chare
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I think that's the copper running with the fibre (see the last pic description).
ZeN Unlimited Fibre 2
Fritz!Box 3390
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Exactly, known as �hybrid� it has a single copper pair running alongside.
The idea is that you use the current copper cable to �cut and draw� the fibre into place. Split the copper off at the property and reconnect to the original copper lead in .... the fibre is then run on to the the ONT location.
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So does that mean that under then new 1 stage process the fibre comes in through the same conduit the the original phone cable used - using the old cable to pull in the new one?
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So does that mean that under then new 1 stage process the fibre comes in through the same conduit the the original phone cable used - using the old cable to pull in the new one?
If you mean from outside to inside the property, then no. Separate entry is preferred, the hybrid stuff won't fit through the lead in kits provided, these stop the fibre sagging in the wall cavity and allow for easier replacement if needs be, also you can hide the change from black to white cable sheathing within the conduit in the wall.
If you by conduit you mean the UG duct to the property, then yes ....
Technically (well as technical as OR bods get) 'cut and draw usually refers to the technique used to replace overhead spans. Since poles have limitations on how many cables radiate out to properties within the quadrants of the ring head {based on type of pole, yada yada yada} It is preferred that if the connectorised process is used the existing span of copper dropwire is used to cut and draw to replace like for like leaving both copper and fibre in the same span ............. Clear as mud I daresay, but I kinda understood it. 
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Ok, I think I mostly understand that! Just trying to get my head round it. Currently the phone cable comes down the lane in a grey 'pipe' underground to the edge of the property then magically runs across the garden some how and comes out of a smaller conduit that connects to the the master socket on the wall in the hall. If / when / maybe fibre is available does this existing cable play some role in things or is it completely separate?
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Each scenario is unique .... some of the existing feed may be used, maybe not.
Don�t fret, sorting this kinda stuff out is Openreach�s bag, let them handle it. NOT worth fretting over by you.
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Not fretting over it, just interested to find out how it is actually done. I like to know how stuff works 
On the other hand there is the issue wife acceptance. The ADSL router in the hall is bad enough and she may actually lose the plot if somebody tries to attach an ONT to the wall! In that respect it's quite important to know in advance.
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The installer will agree a location (within reason) on the day of the install. On the inside of an outside wall seems best to me ... and there should be two spare mains points nearby.
If presented with duct and no easy way to cut and draw, then rods (like 2m drain rods) are assembled and pushed through, or the continuous �Cobra rods (not so widely carried) you then attach the fibre and pull it back through ....
The last couple of UG ones I�ve installed there was a nice neat coil at the property awaiting me ... the ID elves had been before - All connected through and lit when I got there. Not always that lucky though.
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Thanks Zarjaz for posting these explanations. Like Dr Steve I'm just interested to know how stuff works and as usual this forum is the place to find out. Best wishes -- Mike
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I will be joining you in the FTTP world next month I�m told. Hopefully the training is at Yarnfield, I actually quite like it there!
At least half of the UG feeds round here are armoured cable buried directly in the ground. It�ll be interesting to see how that�s handled.
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Should get picked up at order stage .... but one never knows.
I�ve only been to Yarnfield once, initial ADSL training, three black boxes hard wired together.
Good luck - where are you going after, ID ?
Is it just connectorised or are you being trained on blowing and splicing too ?
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No, staying in SD.
I don�t know to be honest, I assume it�ll just be connectorised training but at this stage all I�ve been told is it is �FTTP training�.
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I suspect you�ll be right, there�s a few on my team have been trained for connectorised only.
They send a link to a formwize to request various bits of kit, seemed not to work for me, maybe you�ll have better luck.
And if you can find a way to get your hands on an OTDR, PLEASE let me know.
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Does anyone know if the CBT contains a splitter, or are separate SPNs still used for connectorised installs?
I would have thought it would make sense to use combined CBT/Splitters to reduce the number of splices required to install the CBT.
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Isn�t it just ID that do the equivalent of D-side repairs at the moment though? Maybe that�s why you can�t get one. I can still see the value of an OTDR for multi-span fibre dropwires though.
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No splitter in the CBT. NTE like a DP node cum manifold.
The largest CBT is twelve port, why would you require a possible 32 fibre node at this point ?
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Nope, us guys do them too, have splicer, will travel.
Having an OTDR might save a lot of breaking down and having to resplice for test purposes.
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The reason I asked is that I recall reading something about moving to two levels of split with connectorisation , e.g. 4x then 8x still giving a total of 32x. I wondered if they were doing a 4-way split at the CBT then building the CBTs up in multiples of 4 four ports.
Would it not save time if you reduced the number of splices required in the deployment? You guys seem to be directly involved with the deployment of fibre so would know more than me about it. Just wondering aloud really...
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The reason I asked is that I recall reading something about moving to two levels of split with connectorisation , e.g. 4x then 8x still giving a total of 32x. I wondered if they were doing a 4-way split at the CBT then building the CBTs up in multiples of 4 four ports.
Would it not save time if you reduced the number of splices required in the deployment? You guys seem to be directly involved with the deployment of fibre so would know more than me about it. Just wondering aloud really...
CBT model still requires splitters in the network.
The CBT is just a block terminal with multiple fibres on, fed off the splitter.
It would be odd to have a second split downstream of the first, as this introduces loss.
At the point of split, all fibres are effectively discrete per end user, but sets bundled together towards a CBT, where the last leg is installed connectorised.
At the point of split (from the one simplex fibre back to the OLT) it can go up to densities of 16/32/64 etc.
You can see this in effect, as the prioritised rates (guaranteed throughput) on the FTTP packages are modelled on worst case 64-way split at 330Mb (2.5Gb / 64 = 39Mb).
In practice spare ports are present and not all will be at 330 so they guarantee 40Mb on the 330Mb down products.
Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
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On the split level, have it from Openreach that they are on 32 way split
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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That's what they're typically targeting, but it's not a hard limit, there is some 64-way in some older builds and could still be some in the future depending on where it make sense, hence the prioritised rate modelling at that level.
Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm |
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I'm with Mary on this... it is possible.
Corning certainly sell the terminal boxes with a splitter as an integral part, so it is plausible to work with a 2-level of split.
Is loss an issue? A single 32-way split ought to have similar loss to sequential 8-way and 4-way splits. And the whole point of connectorised setups is that it stems from a realisation that, in most cases, there is budget to spare.
Openreach have published network architecture diagrams that include two levels of split. One for CBT can be seen here... http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2015/09/g-fast-and-fo...
It's an option that makes sense if you want to use BFT, as it helps reduce the number of tubes.
But I'm not really sure we've seen any of this kind of thing out in the wild. It might well all be just theory
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AFAIK that architecture is deprecated, new FTTP deployments are all single split architectures and use loose buffered fibre cables - 36 fibre 7mm dia or 12 fibre 8mmx4mm which are much less bulky and more flexible than BFT.
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You can see this in effect, as the prioritised rates (guaranteed throughput) on the FTTP packages are modelled on worst case 64-way split at 330Mb (2.5Gb / 64 = 39Mb).
In practice spare ports are present and not all will be at 330 so they guarantee 40Mb on the 330Mb down products.
BT Retail now guarantee minimum speeds of 100 Mbps at all times (proof >> here<<) on their new FTTP Ultrafast 1 & 2 packages - latter is 330/50. This suggests on 64 port splitters BT/Openreach are either using 10G-PON (XG-PON) fibre or multiple GPON fibre links to provide enough capacity.
Edited by deleted (Tue 27-Mar-18 05:32:17)
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Nope, us guys do them too, have splicer, will travel.
Having an OTDR might save a lot of breaking down and having to resplice for test purposes.
So basically unless I get that splicing training I�ll just be doing FTTP installs rather than repairs? I hardly do any copper installs so I wouldn�t like that. Time for me to also push for the splicing training too then.
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You can see this in effect, as the prioritised rates (guaranteed throughput) on the FTTP packages are modelled on worst case 64-way split at 330Mb (2.5Gb / 64 = 39Mb).
In practice spare ports are present and not all will be at 330 so they guarantee 40Mb on the 330Mb down products.
BT Retail now guarantee minimum speeds of 100 Mbps at all times (proof >>here<<) on their new FTTP Ultrafast 1 & 2 packages - latter is 330/50. This suggests on 64 port splitters BT/Openreach are either using 10G-PON (XG-PON) fibre or multiple GPON fibre links to provide enough capacity.
Yep. Retail backed themselves into a corner there.
They're taking the risk onto themselves unless they're ordering it on the 500Mb product then shaping it, at which point there would be some interesting competition questions as to how they are selling it for a loss!
Conceivably they could hit contention in the GPON network and there would be no recourse within Openreach as the product conditions are being met.
In practice I understand they're yet to actually see this contention become a problem.
They are forward planning for an upgrade though, the 500M and 1Gb products have a 220M and 333M prioritised rate, and have greatly heightened install and rentals which they are banking to cover the future uplift or network re-arrangement to meet their prioritised rate obligations. (I.e. the higher install isn't covering an uplift today, it's banking it for the future where they will do the work to overlay).
Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
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No more than others who are going down the guarantee route in an effort to keep Which? happy
Remember too that Ultrafast 1 and Ultrafast 2 are going to be predominantly G.fast based anyway, so GPON splits don't matter.
In just FTTP areas the proportion buying Ultrafast 1 or 2 speeds is low.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In just FTTP areas the proportion buying Ultrafast 1 or 2 speeds is low.
Especially if only a handful of operators offer those speeds. Although just checked my account and BT are currently pricing Ultrafast 1 at £2 less than infinity 2 with Ultrafast 2 a couple of pounds dearer than that. So wondering if they are starting to push those speeds for existing customers that can order it
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Do check the out of contract pricing, i.e.. hook you on the higher speeds and they know lots won't downgrade so longer term increased revenue
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Remember too that Ultrafast 1 and Ultrafast 2 are going to be predominantly G.fast based anyway, so GPON splits don't matter.
Ah yes though the prioritised rate DS for G.fast is 110Mbps at the moment, so they can quote that!
Just a detach when it comes to FTTP, but you're right today the high rate products aren't being widely adopted.
Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
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