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Standard User Taras
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-May-18 14:14:46
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Kitcat,

You may have been around some very knowledge-able people, but also there was a large amount of people there, who simply didn't get the internet. BT's stupidity has caused their landline business to be dead in many respects, with the voip move by 2025 just being a decade late.

We need fttp for multiple 4k streams, yet OR are now slowly realising the need for fttp. Yes Ofcom and the governements (lab and con) are also to blame. BT and OR should have split 10 years ago.

Sky' Q platform will likely be the last platform being powered by satellites. With netflix, nowtv etc being far more flexible and scaleable ..

BT became too big and to slow to innovate.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-May-18 15:18:20
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: Taras] [link to this post]
 
We need fttp for multiple 4k streams, yet OR are now slowly realising the need for fttp. Yes Ofcom and the governements (lab and con) are also to blame
You should also blame the buying public. Few people that have the option of FTTP take up anything other than the basic packages. That makes it very difficult to build a business case to put higher speed options in place when most people won't pay extra to get them.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-May-18 15:21:34
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: NorthSkye] [link to this post]
 
Whilst in no way wishing to appear to defend BT it is you who appears to fail to understand that BT were prevented from moving to FTTP by OFCOM. As for BT ignoring areas remember that BT is limited by OFCOM in what it can charge and being a public company is answerable to its shareholders most of whom expect BT to obtain a reasonable return on any investment. As for sweating its copper, remember that it is the LLU operators who are sweating their investment in ADSL2 that are insisting that this be maintained and OFCOM who each year reduce the amount that BT can charge for that part of their network.


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Standard User NorthSkye
(newbie) Thu 10-May-18 16:38:04
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
I acknowledge the history and I agree that Ofcom has a share of the blame for the present position. But nevertheless I can have no sympathy for a private sector company that is happy to exercise considerable control over UK telecoms infrastructure strategy based purely on the pursuit of profit... whilst of course "profit" is what a private sector company aims for, it's a situation that should never have been allowed to come about. Although it could have been remedied (as happened in New Zealand where NZ Telecom was displaced seven years ago by the 100% state-owned Crown Fibre Holdings), all that has happened here is that Openreach was required to be spun off as a separate company, a move that is of no significance whatsoever. Even its Web site still declares that it is run by "British Telecommunications PLC", a criminal offence under the Companies Act 2006 because the required statutory trading disclosure information is missing, and despite severe criticism of those omissions by a District Judge in County Court civil proceedings last year arising out of their unlawful storage and processing of personal data, the required information still isn't there, even after their registered office changed in December 2017.

And where we are, the only broadband choice is ADSLMax (NB not ADSL2) if there happens to an exchange close enough, or nothing at all, a situation that's highly unlikely to change any time soon.

Edited by NorthSkye (Thu 10-May-18 17:02:22)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-May-18 17:23:41
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: NorthSkye] [link to this post]
 
Why should BT provide you with a service where they are unlikely to ever see a return on their investment? Why not Virgin/Liberty Media, Vodafone, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic, or any other supplier, it's not as if BT is a monopoly and sole supplier. Have you considered doing anything about this yourself or are you relying on others to do this for you at little or no cost to yourself? I say this as someone who with others spent approaching £19K to enable us to receive an FTTC service on our previously EO lines.

As for OpenReach this is wholly owned by BT group and trades through the BT plc registered office. Nowhere does it state that it is run by BT but rather that it is independently governed by Openreach Limited with more than 90% of its business regulated by OFCOM.
Standard User NorthSkye
(newbie) Thu 10-May-18 17:55:08
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
Why should BT provide you with a service where they are unlikely to ever see a return on their investment? Why not Virgin/Liberty Media, Vodafone, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic, or any other supplier, it's not as if BT is a monopoly and sole supplier.

Yes, it is across the whole of the Isle of Skye. None of the exchanges are unbundled and only BTW products are available for broadband connections.
Have you considered doing anything about this yourself or are you relying on others to do this for you at little or no cost to yourself? I say this as someone who with others spent approaching £19K to enable us to receive an FTTC service on our previously EO lines.

Yes, we have spent two years on planning and building FTTP networks, only to be told in January by HIE that grant funding is no longer available because of the R100 procurement process. LEADER funding is not available for broadband projects and community networks are ineligible for funding under the 2016 National Broadband Scheme. VDSL/VDSL2 are inappropriate technologies for sparse rural areas because they can only provide superfast broadband to those living within half a mile of a cabinet.

As for OpenReach this is wholly owned by BT group and trades through the BT plc registered office. Nowhere does it state that it is run by BT but rather that it is independently governed by Openreach Limited with more than 90% of its business regulated by OFCOM.

It's a shame that you didn't actually check the facts... read the terms and conditions, and search the site for the company name, registered office, registered number, and the part of the UK in which it is registered. Openreach Limited's registered office changed to Kelvin House, 123 Judd Street, London, WC1H 9NP on 19 December 2017. Then check the requirements of The Company, Limited Liability Partnership and Business (Names and Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2015, particularly Regulations 24, 25, and 28. Many of its business communications (which includes e-mail) don't bear the legally-required information either.

The fact that Openreach Limited is wholly owned by British Telecommunications PLC (to give BT its legal title), which is also correctly declared as a "person with significant control" in its Companies House filings, doesn't absolve Openreach Limited, and its directors in default, of its criminal liability under the regulations. It's a shambles.

Edited by NorthSkye (Thu 10-May-18 18:00:31)

Standard User partial
(experienced) Thu 10-May-18 18:16:34
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Few people that have the option of FTTP take up anything other than the basic packages. That makes it very difficult to build a business case to put higher speed options in place when most people won't pay extra to get them.


This is the issue nobody wants to talk about in this parish. The demand is for ultra cheap not ultra fast. .
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-May-18 19:35:08
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: NorthSkye] [link to this post]
 
You clearly fail to understand that there are other suppliers and that BT owes you nothing. Why do you think that Vodafone, VM, etc aren't able to supply you? I'll give you a clue it is nothing to do with unbundling, it is simply that it is uneconomic for them to do so.

You appear to be more concerned about accusing BT of a criminal offence whilst sticking your head in the sand and doing nothing to solve your problems. My advice to you would be to forget about BT entirely and look to BARN and other self help groups as your model and get down and do something positive to help yourselves.
Standard User NorthSkye
(newbie) Thu 10-May-18 20:20:36
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
You clearly fail to understand that there are other suppliers and that BT owes you nothing. Why do you think that Vodafone, VM, etc aren't able to supply you? I'll give you a clue it is nothing to do with unbundling, it is simply that it is uneconomic for them to do so.

You appear to be more concerned about accusing BT of a criminal offence whilst sticking your head in the sand and doing nothing to solve your problems. My advice to you would be to forget about BT entirely and look to BARN and other self help groups as your model and get down and do something positive to help yourselves.


Rather a rant, probably because of your embarrassment about your previous response, but I will answer anyway. Our approach was largely based on the BARN model, but the key differences are that (1) BARN has huge backhaul capacity over the dark fibre (now owned by Zayo) that was laid with the Transco gas pipeline down the M6 corridor some years ago - back haul that doesn't exist in the Highlands (so "forgetting BT" isn't an option when I've already explained that BT has a monopoly on the island and across much of the Highlands), and (2) BARN's strategy is based on a village-by-village incremental build, with each 'wannabee' centre of population raising the cost of extending their trunk fibre... a model that doesn't work for sparse populations that have no easy option as regards backhaul.

Two formal consultation processes identified that no communications provider had any plans whatsoever to bid for State aid under the 2016 National Broadband Scheme to provide superfast broadband within the next three years.

So, we did indeed help ourselves. We produced a viable business plan to connect 800 premises across North Skye with an ultrafast FTTP fibre network that will break even with no debt after about 10 years, but commercial lenders weren't interested in such a timescale, and although we designed a showcase pilot/demonstrator project to connect 50 premises using 200,000 (around £170,000) of "de minimis" grant aid from HIE, as I previously mentioned this was withdrawn without any notice in January this year because of the commencement of the R100 procurement process. We had already hosted civil construction companies in a visit to the project area to quote for directional drilling (etc.) necessary for our build plan, and we had reached a firm agreement with a commercial partner based in Manchester to handle billing administration and first-line support. We were almost ready to go, despite having identified that only 400Mbps of capacity is available from the Dunvegan exchange for our backhaul, even though millions of pounds of public subsidy was given to BT to provide the BT-HIE Seg1.15 submarine fibre cable from Dunvegan to Carnan (South Uist).

Oops, there I go criticising BT penny-pinching in rural areas again...

Does that count as doing something positive to help ourselves? With no backhaul, no funding, nor any route to funding for at least a year, do you have any (sensible) suggestions?
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-May-18 20:49:03
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Re: Is there a limit to the number of FTTC cabs per PCP ?


[re: NorthSkye] [link to this post]
 
You clearly have problems but I cannot for the life of me see how BT was in any way responsible for your loss of HIE grant.

As for my earlier replies to your various rants being embarrassing, not at all, what I do find embarrassing is your repeated and continued attempts to blame BT for all your woes. Why not have a go at VM and ask why they aren't prepared to provide you with the service you want, or Vodafone, or Hyperoptic or Gigaclear... You clearly don't like BT, there's nothing wrong it that, but direct your angst at those responsible and in your case it isn't BT.
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