General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 21-May-18 08:16:14
Print Post

Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[link to this post]
 
The BT/OR checker is now showing availability for the 1000/220 Mbps (and up to) services on my FTTP line:

https://s9.postimg.cc/nd4da7a0f/BT_checker.jpg

However I can't find any CP selling the 1 Gig service just yet, though Zen do acknowledge that my line is capable of up to 1000/220 Mbps speeds:

https://s9.postimg.cc/neiwh5ylb/Zen_broadband.jpg

Sales of these higher speed tiers seems to be imminent.... smile

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 21-May-18 08:16:48)

Standard User ferretuk
(member) Mon 21-May-18 10:46:16
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Just because OR/BTW have the product available doesn't mean that ISP's are geared up to support it (yet). A responsible ISP will be evaluating the impact on their network links and contemplating investment accordingly I would think?

AAISP Home::1 Terabyte | IPv4 BQM | IPv6 BQM | AAISP VOIP | ER-Lite Router | Unifi AC-Lite Wifi AP
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 21-May-18 11:20:03
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: ferretuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ferretuk:
Just because OR/BTW have the product available doesn't mean that ISP's are geared up to support it (yet). A responsible ISP will be evaluating the impact on their network links and contemplating investment accordingly I would think?


Actually Openreach announced the higher speed tiers in 2016/2017 so ispís have had plenty of preparation time. No, whatís happened is that BT wholesale are now able to sell these higher speeds to ISPs - and btw will only sell it if they know the demand is there from CPs. I suspect it will be just one or two niche ISPís such as Cerberus who sell these services initially before the likes of BT retail join in.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Mon 21-May-18 11:39:38
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I can't see BT Retail jumping in on this, BT Business maybe.
It will probably be targeted at business customers, especially the hefty install fee (£500 etc VAT).

Tough luck to those connected to ECI OLT's in the exchange. This will likely never be available to them.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 21-May-18 12:29:02
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Install is higher to pay for the XGPON optics needed

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 21-May-18 13:24:56
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Install is higher to pay for the XGPON optics needed


Indeedy. XGPON is not required to deliver 1Gb down, 220Mb up, however Openreach have made the decision to require it for 500Mb and up. This is entirely unnecessary but their call.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Mon 21-May-18 14:55:51
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
A very sensible call I think, One 1Gb customer on 2.5Gb would start to have a significant impact on the other potential 31 customers leaving 48Mb each before speed started to be restricted, 2 customers could cause significant complaints.

At least by insisting on XGPON from day1 OR will have some control over the potential issues and the customer requiring the higher service will be the ones to pay for it. They would be the first to complain if they started getting restricted below their 1Gb/220Mb.OR are rightly assuming that these customers are running a business even if they are at a residential address and will expect a business type service.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 21-May-18 17:08:19
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Not really. Pretty paranoid. The odds of 32 devices hitting 2.4Gb/s between them are extremely low. Average peak usage is still a couple of megabits per second.

Pretty much everywhere that offers a gigabit is offering it over EPON or GPON, rather than the 10G variants and they do fine. They even offer symmetrical gigabit rather than capping at just 220Mb and there are relatively few complaints.

The average VM area has 250+ people sharing 1.2Gb/s and the average speed on the 350Mb/s tier is higher than 350Mb. There's no need at all to insist on XGPON for a gigabit as far as capacity planning goes. The bottlenecks are far more likely to be on the other end of the OLT, not the one reaching consumers. smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 21-May-18 17:43:58
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Probably explains why we see so few really good Gigabit looking speeds from TalkTalk in York when that is the only speed they sell, or 95% of people do not own devices with an Ethernet port or even bother to use it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 21-May-18 18:05:54
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
The odds of 32 devices hitting 2.4Gb/s between them are extremely low.


Perhaps in residential areas but certainly not in areas where most/all of the FTTP connections are business customers, eg in business parks. Let's not forget that BT/Openreach offers FTTP to both residential and business customers and most of the 1 Gig customers are likely to be biz customers (at least initially). Of course FTTP - whether supplied to residential or business customers - is still a shared service on the BTW/OR platform but at least by having XGPON fibre from exchange to premises you reduce the possibility of congestion on this segment.

Just a shame that Openreach still insist on not having truly symmetrical speeds on FTTP, but hey ho their lucrative leased line revenue has to be protected frown

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 21-May-18 18:07:00)

Standard User Blmcg
(newbie) Mon 21-May-18 18:20:22
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
At least by insisting on XGPON from day1 OR will have some control over the potential issues and the customer requiring the higher service will be the ones to pay for it.


Install fee is banked by Openreach to fund the wavelength filter/optics/line card upgrade when they hit critical mass on a PON and need to do the upgrade, not as a task that actually occurs on day one.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User ferretuk
(member) Mon 21-May-18 20:27:48
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I think you may perhaps be overestimating the bandwidth usage. I work for an international professional video operation that acquires and generates a lot of content over the internet and has lots of users in the building.

We have symmetric leased line connectivity and it's a lots less that 1Gbps...

AAISP Home::1 Terabyte | IPv4 BQM | IPv6 BQM | AAISP VOIP | ER-Lite Router | Unifi AC-Lite Wifi AP
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 21-May-18 20:58:18
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I am behind on this, openreach are planning to share 32 FTTP end users over a single 2.4gbit link? Also sharing with the FTTC 2.4gbit link as well?

Given VMs capacity issues I am not sure they are an example to be considered a success, sweden has congestion issues on their FTTP services but I have no idea how they share out their capacity.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User candlerb
(regular) Mon 21-May-18 21:37:43
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I am behind on this, openreach are planning to share 32 FTTP end users over a single 2.4gbit link?


Yes. (2.4Gbps down, 1.2Gbps up).

This is plenty: some users on the PON may have a 330M service, but not all users are active at the same time.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
Also sharing with the FTTC 2.4gbit link as well?


I'm pretty sure that each PON (with up to 32 subscribers) has its own dedicated fibre uplink, and that FTTC is completely independent of FTTP.
Standard User Blmcg
(newbie) Mon 21-May-18 21:48:35
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I am behind on this, openreach are planning to share 32 FTTP end users over a single 2.4gbit link?


Yes. (2.4Gbps down, 1.2Gbps up).

This is plenty: some users on the PON may have a 330M service, but not all users are active at the same time.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
Also sharing with the FTTC 2.4gbit link as well?


I'm pretty sure that each PON (with up to 32 subscribers) has its own dedicated fibre uplink, and that FTTC is completely independent of FTTP.


The PON may terminate on the same L2Switch in the exchange as FTTC / G.Fast DSLAM backhaul, but they are all on discrete optics with their own fibres, therefore GPON optic connects to the PON only, though will share a common fibre bundle to the NGA distribution node where it fans out .
Contention is therefore limited to the PoN for that specific optic and the CP's cablelink to the L2Switch.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User Blmcg
(newbie) Mon 21-May-18 21:57:02
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I am behind on this, openreach are planning to share 32 FTTP end users over a single 2.4gbit link? Also sharing with the FTTC 2.4gbit link as well?

Given VMs capacity issues I am not sure they are an example to be considered a success, sweden has congestion issues on their FTTP services but I have no idea how they share out their capacity.


NGA does not provide for an uncontested service beyond a certain rate.
Openreach provide "minimum" prioritised rates based on the ordered service rate which allow for contention withiut qualifying as a fault.
For example, 330Mb is guaranteed 110Mb only (the CP/SP may contend further and often don't back this guarantee themselves, given this is usually packaged as a DSL, contended product.
These prioritised rates are the basis of EoFTTC/EoFTTP offerings, which tend to mirror the leased line model and guarentee throughput.

Search for BT SIN 506 for the rates table.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 22-May-18 01:26:57
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Likely most of the tests are wireless. Even with everyone on a gigabit 32 customers on 2.4Gb isn't likely to be a major problem.

Think about how rapidly users will get whatever they want to done at 115MB/s. The traffic is more spiky than lower bandwidth services but the spikes are shorter in duration.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 22-May-18 01:32:05
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Business usage is nowhere near as heavy as you might think.

My company HQ has 100Mb for all remote VPN users and the 100 or so office based people and it's more than adequate, this without a really strict content or application filtering system preventing home from work usage.

It's not even a full 100Mb, it's 50 with 100 burstable.
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Tue 22-May-18 08:11:56
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I'm on an ECI cab, and all I can say is that I am glad that Southwark Council have signed a deal with Hyperoptic - looking forward to ditching my BT supplied line and getting 1Gb symmetrical FTTP within the next 6-9 months.

Bob WRBRIX
PN Unl.Extra Fibre - TP-Link VR2600
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway to CIX, ADSL to Nildram, SKY & Be*Unlimited, Fibre to BT http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/049baa48c1f...
Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Tue 22-May-18 22:55:15
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I agree, I know of a London coworking space with close to 1000 very tech heavy people in the building and it sustains about 200mbit/sec, spiking to 500mbit occassionally. They have a 1gig link.

Not sure why BT are going for XGPON for this apart from to stop people buying it.

How does XGPON work exactly? Is it another wavelength separate to the GPON one that run side by side?
Standard User tdw42
(regular) Wed 23-May-18 00:10:03
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
Yes. GPON (G.984) uses 1490nm downstream and 1310 nm upstream, XGPON (G.987) uses 1577nm downstream and 1270nm upstream.
Standard User Snake
(experienced) Thu 24-May-18 21:43:51
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I checked mine, unfortunately, no 1gig for me frown

Cerberus FTTPoD
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-May-19 09:22:23
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Cerberus are now selling the half gig & 1 Gig services nationwide over BT Wholesale tails. They ain't cheap though! However I imagine the prices will gradually drop over time.

https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/node/183#cerberus...

You'll probably need to place the order over the phone as their online checker still shows 330/50 as the max FTTP speed available for a particular property.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 01-May-19 09:23:28)

Standard User Limpopoha
(newbie) Wed 01-May-19 11:01:36
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available' *DELETED*


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by MrSaffron
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 01-May-19 13:05:42
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available' *DELETED*


[re: Limpopoha] [link to this post]
 
Was a spammer so content delated

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chipmunk77
(newbie) Wed 01-May-19 23:00:21
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Cerberus are now selling the half gig & 1 Gig services nationwide over BT Wholesale tails. They ain't cheap though! However I imagine the prices will gradually drop over time.



£259/month, ouch. Yeah, not tempted at that - I'd probably overpay just for the hell of it, but not that much.

Like you say, it'll probably drop over time. With 1gig via altnets/Vodafone, and virgin doing 500mbit, BT will want to stay reasonably competitive.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 02-May-19 08:14:10
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Chipmunk77] [link to this post]
 
From a customer point of view: £156/month for 500/165 compares very badly with £62.50/month for 330/50. OTOH, Virgin have *nothing* to compare with 165M upload speed apart from full leased lines (even their new top tier is only 35M upload), so there's not really any competition.

However, in the OR FTTP pricelist, the rental difference between 500/165 and 330/50 is only £204 per *year* (£17 per month)

I realise Cerberus are amortizing the £500 Openreach setup fee, but I would rather pay it once up-front rather than pay it over and over again. Say: £500 setup plus £99 per month. That's still a £36.50 premium over 330/50, of which £17 goes to OR and £19.50 goes to Cerberus. At that point, maybe it would be interesting.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 02-May-19 10:45:11
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Yeah I agree, I won't pay for a package which incorporates the setup fee into the monthly cost and likely to be ongoing even beyond the contract's term. I'd rather have the option of paying the setup fee upfront than potentially paying the setup fee again and again depending how long I stayed on that plan or with the ISP. I've got roughly 11 months to wait anyway before I can consider an upgrade as I'm on a 12 month FTTPoD term, so I can wait. Hopefully by then a more reasonable deal will be available for 500Mbps or 1Gbps (e.g. option to pay for setup fee upfront). To be honest though, I'd probably go for the 500Mbps option since the upload speed is more important to me and 165Mbps is plenty enough.

Edited by Ixel (Thu 02-May-19 10:47:17)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-May-19 11:52:35
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
However, in the OR FTTP pricelist, the rental difference between 500/165 and 330/50 is only £204 per *year* (£17 per month)


I'd check the BT Wholesale price list and remember how ISPs pay BT Wholesale for bandwidth on top.

----
Building better networks, not just faster ones.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 02-May-19 11:59:20
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Am sure they are working on assumption that those ordering the 500 and Gig service are not going to be just 10GB per month data users.

The question should be how much cheaper than a leased line with Gigabit burst is it?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TechServ
(learned) Thu 02-May-19 18:45:39
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
When compared to other business packages from say Gigaclear or Hyperoptic these prices look pretty similar especially when you delve down to the SLA.

You canít compare it to Vodafone Gigafast pricing as that isnít available to businesses at all. Plus stop and think how many users are shared on Vodafone / CityFibre PON to keep the consumer price that low?

The CP also has a fair number of costs to allow both in backhaul and in Cablelinks Cross Connects which all need to be sized proportionally.
Standard User jabuzzard
(member) Fri 03-May-19 11:37:11
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: tdw42] [link to this post]
 
Which moron in the ITU allowed 1577nm downstream. Using a none standard CWDM (Coarse Wavelength Division Multiplexing) wavelength is complete and utter stupidity.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-May-19 16:33:38
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Which moron in the ITU allowed 1577nm downstream. Using a none standard CWDM (Coarse Wavelength Division Multiplexing) wavelength is complete and utter stupidity.


It's only 6nm wide. It's not a problem.

----
Building better networks, not just faster ones.
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Sat 04-May-19 01:06:28
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
From a customer point of view: £156/month for 500/165 compares very badly with £62.50/month for 330/50. OTOH, Virgin have *nothing* to compare with 165M upload speed apart from full leased lines (even their new top tier is only 35M upload), so there's not really any competition.

However, in the OR FTTP pricelist, the rental difference between 500/165 and 330/50 is only £204 per *year* (£17 per month)

I realise Cerberus are amortizing the £500 Openreach setup fee, but I would rather pay it once up-front rather than pay it over and over again. Say: £500 setup plus £99 per month. That's still a £36.50 premium over 330/50, of which £17 goes to OR and £19.50 goes to Cerberus. At that point, maybe it would be interesting.


I just saw these prices and thought exact same thing. Once FTTPoD 1-year contract is done isn't it £45.00+VAT for 330/50Mpbps, 2*330/50Mbps would be £90 (I have a four port ONT) compared to 1*500/165Mbps @ £165+VAT. Few need a single pipe of that bandwidth, certainly for me (holiday cottages) it would be multiple users (up to 40).

4*330/50Mbps would only be £180+VAT and top out a net 1.32Gbps/200Mbps service.

Note comments on bandwidth usage for work but I use a heck of a lot less data at work than my kids do streaming. We could easily have 20 streams (music or video) just to keep the kids entertained while they eat their frosties at this rate.

Would definitely have to upgrade the router from USG-4-Pro to the XG or something from PFSense (and lose the nice shiny dashboard). Plus upgrade main switch at least. I think I will sit and look on enviously for the time being.
Standard User Agb_ldn
(newbie) Sat 04-May-19 07:13:26
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
How do I ascertain which market (a or b) my line is on. When I look at wholesale checker the exchange isnít indicated. It does however say 1000/220 is supported
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 04-May-19 08:56:44
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Agb_ldn] [link to this post]
 
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/availability enter postcode and click through to the specifics for the postcode and we list the Ofcom Market for the exchange

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User candlerb
(committed) Sat 04-May-19 09:32:40
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
I just saw these prices and thought exact same thing. Once FTTPoD 1-year contract is done isn't it £45.00+VAT for 330/50Mpbps


I think you got that price from the Cerberus page, but you didn't read the ** small print: the price is discounted to £45 for the first three months only, after which it goes up to £62.50.

So a pair of 330/50 would be £125/month, which is not too far off the 500/165 price, and still doesn't match the upload speed.
Standard User Agb_ldn
(newbie) Sat 04-May-19 11:12:11
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for sharing the link. Interestingly, the closest exchange doesnít show as supporting FTTP or FTTPoD. Another exchange (just 150m) further away does support both. I actually live on a small new build estate surrounded by older dwellings. Having just checked my neighbours address (older dwelling) it indicates heís connected to the closest exchange, ie the one that doesnít support FTTP. Same goes for all other nearby addresses that arenít part of the estate. For info, theyíre all able to get FTTC services. The street is also has VM coax. Is it possible Openreach ran fibre from the exchange further away for the new houses? Either way, I guess it doesnít matter as both exchanges are market B.

Final question - I notice in the Cerberus T&Cs for the market B price that I must also have a PSTN line installed to qualify for the cheaper service. Neither my house nor any of the new houses here have any copper. Just the ONT Openreach installed before the properties were sold. Do you think I still qualify for the cheaper pricing? If so, Iím going to go ahead and order the 1000/220 service. Iím sure people think Iím mad, but there are reasons which I wonít go in to!

Thanks!
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 04-May-19 11:31:56
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Agb_ldn] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Agb_ldn:
I notice in the Cerberus T&Cs for the market B price that I must also have a PSTN line installed to qualify for the cheaper service. Neither my house nor any of the new houses here have any copper. Just the ONT Openreach installed before the properties were sold. Do you think I still qualify for the cheaper pricing? If so, Iím going to go ahead and order the 1000/220 service. Iím sure people think Iím mad, but there are reasons which I wonít go in to!


If you already have a BT voice service over fibre (called FVA) then you wouldn't pay that £9 p/m. However if you didn't, it would be cheaper to pay an extra £9 p/m to Cerberus than to take out a new FVA serrvice with BT Retail costing £15+ p/m. An extra 9 quid a month isn't a huge amount when you're willing to pay nearly £300 a month....

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sat 04-May-19 12:42:31
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
So a pair of 330/50 would be £125/month, which is not too far off the 500/165 price, and still doesn't match the upload speed.

I am mostly interested in the upload, our download of ~307Mbps is fine for our needs here (at the moment), but I have on many occasions capped out the upload by using multiple threads when uploading, so if I / we were able to complete those uploads faster that would be great.

But we will see over time what happens to the pricing or even if BT sell those speeds, I know BT do have plans to do so, but no current timescale when, so I have been told, so maybe they are just seeing how many people become interested in those speeds.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User F00tS0re
(regular) Sat 04-May-19 15:13:33
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Yup, missed the small print! Which changes the numbers around a bit. And as per Paulís post everyoneís requirements differ. Mostly guests streaming stuff for me rather than uploads.

Looked at router last night around midnight and we pulling 40% of 330 for a consistent period. Thatís 120Mbps what were they doing!

Edited by F00tS0re (Sat 04-May-19 15:14:34)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 04-May-19 17:22:12
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Agb_ldn] [link to this post]
 
If this is a new build fibre only then some of the older ones are not linked to the right exchange in my database

Some Fibre Only new build is connected to the exchange many kilometres away, so if that is the case probably got you all correct. Given the comments on checker not saying FTTP on the closest exchange then looks like probably everything is correct.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Aug-19 22:40:39
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Just noticed Trunk Networks have joined Cerberus in selling the 0.5 & 1 Gig services over BT Wholesale tails. Priced at a bargain £234 & £450 /m respectively (inc vat). If that wasn't enough there's a £700+ one-off install charge as well, which I presume is the fee Openreach bank to fund upgrades.

https://postimg.cc/Pv46Jmqx

Will be interesting to see how much the newer (revised?) 550/75 & 1000/115 services are priced at, though the upload speeds have been halved - at present they are 500/165 & 1000/220.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8477-openreach-p...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Aug-19 08:41:48
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Just noticed Trunk Networks have joined Cerberus in selling the 0.5 & 1 Gig services over BT Wholesale tails. Priced at a bargain £234 & £450 /m respectively (inc vat). If that wasn't enough there's a £700+ one-off install charge as well, which I presume is the fee Openreach bank to fund upgrades.

Ouch, why are they charging so much, BTOR are charging a connection fee of £500 then for the 500/165 its £660 per year (i.e. £55 pm) and for the 1000/220 its £960 per year (i.e. £80 pm) so not sure why the high price.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Aug-19 09:09:18
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
A large chunk of the costs will be down to the bandwidth costs from BT Wholesale and the smaller ISPs tend to pay more, d/t economies of scale & all that.

I've no doubt BT Retail will start selling these speeds one day (probaby quite a while yet), but by that time, Wholesale costs will have fallen which means they can offer consumer friendly pricing on these. But at least we know these speeds are out in the wild now.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 03-Aug-19 11:29:22
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
What router is supplied?

Some providers front load those costs, and others spread it over the months of the contract

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Aug-19 12:13:40
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
They supply a 'free' router (no idea on make & model) with the service so they might be adding the cost of that to the one-off fee. But they're not a cheap ISP anyway, for example their 330/50 FTTP tier is £108 /m, though like with most niche ISPs you do get a higher quality of service.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 04-Aug-19 05:25:07
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
A large chunk of the costs will be down to the bandwidth costs from BT Wholesale and the smaller ISPs tend to pay more, d/t economies of scale & all that.

I would of thought the monthly charges would pay for the bandwidth, due to the price BTOR say for 330/50 is a little bit more than we are paying and that's with the phone line cost taken off.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
I've no doubt BT Retail will start selling these speeds one day (probaby quite a while yet), but by that time, Wholesale costs will have fallen which means they can offer consumer friendly pricing on these. But at least we know these speeds are out in the wild now.

Yeah, I did speak to BT when these new speeds become visible, they was shocked I knew the speeds and cost for them at the time, but they did say that they would be selling those products at some point, but are just waiting for more areas to be upgraded and also for more interest before doing so.

TBH I would be happy with 330/100, basically the download is fine, but wouldn't mind more upload speed.

But yeah we will see what happens.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 04-Aug-19 05:36:25
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
They supply a 'free' router (no idea on make & model) with the service so they might be adding the cost of that to the one-off fee. But they're not a cheap ISP anyway, for example their 330/50 FTTP tier is £108 /m, though like with most niche ISPs you do get a higher quality of service.

Well it would have to be some good router with Gold Chrome on it tongue

But that monthly charge is a lot, see people say BT have bad customer services, but I have never had any bad issues with BT since we were put on FTTP, whenever we have had any issues, it was either resolved while on the phone (UK based staff) or within an hour or two after it was reported.

The only issue I have with BT is that sometimes you are in a queue for a while like one time I was waiting for 48 mins before I even spoke to somebody, but there has been loads of times when its been less than 60 seconds.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User brookheather
(member) Sun 04-Aug-19 14:34:25
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I'm currently in Spain and the house I'm staying in has FTTP - last year it was on 80/20 with a fairly basic combined ONT/wireless router - this year the owners have upgraded to 500/500 and there is a nice new Huawei HG8247U combined ONT/wireless router. I just did a quick speed test and got just over 500 downstream and upstream. I checked the Avatel website and it seems this package is only 35 euros a month - bargain!

https://www.avatel.es/en/Comunidades/Fibra

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + Asus RT-AC67U AiMesh
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 04-Aug-19 18:32:33
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Nice smile

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast Fibre 2 Plus + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (Single Threaded) | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User alexatkin
(regular) Sun 11-Aug-19 22:53:37
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Anyone know what Zen are pricing FTTP? They don't seem to show it on their website.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 11-Aug-19 23:02:21
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen

Links should show packages on Zen site, unless they've moved things around again

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 07:53:43
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alexatkin:
Anyone know what Zen are pricing FTTP? They don't seem to show it on their website.


If I enter an FTTP-available number and address, I get offered:

- Unlimited Full Fibre 1 + Phone line rental (18 month contract): 38/9Mbps: £44.99/month + £55 activation
- Unlimited Full Fibre 2 + Phone line rental (18 month contract): 76/18Mbps: £49.99/month + £55 activation
- Unlimited Full Fibre 3 + Phone line rental (18 month contract): 150/27Mbps: £59.99/month + £55 activation
- Unlimited Full Fibre 4 + Phone line rental (18 month contract): 300/45Mbps: £70.00/month + £55 activation

Includes "free" FRITZ!Box wireless broadband router and delivery.

It also offers the FTTC packages at £31.99 and £38.99, both including line rental and free router, with £19.99 activation on 12 month contract - so significantly cheaper.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 12-Aug-19 08:35:04
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
The first two FTTP prices there look to be internally limited to match the FTTC prices, and also to be connection speeds as opposed to average syncs or throughputs. ďUp to/10% achieveĒ in the case of the FTTC ones.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 12-Aug-19 08:36:48)

Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 08:58:22
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I notice that Cerberus have changed their pricing for the high speed tiers: for 500/165 it's now £140 per month (down from £156) but with a £500 installation fee, and 12 month contract.

The drop of £16 per month means it'll take two and a half years to get back the installation fee, but in the long run you're slightly better off.

The pricing for 330/50 is £71.50 per month (without the transition line rental discount), and the discount for the first 3 months has been dropped. So it looks like they've priced 500/165 to be *just* under the cost of two 330/50 services.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 09:06:52
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The first two FTTP prices there look to be internally limited to match the FTTC prices


I'm not sure what you mean by "internally limited". FTTP 40/10 and 80/20 are standard Openreach wholesale products, just like 165/30 and 330/50. All four of them are limited to their respective speeds at the OLT.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 12-Aug-19 10:43:22
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available' *DELETED*


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by RobertoS
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 12-Aug-19 11:18:16
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Sensible decision from Cerberus to charge the £500+ fee separately. AFAIK the £500 fee is a one-off fee from Openreach, therefore it shouldn't be charged again if moving to a different CP on the top tier FTTP services. So under the previous Cerberus amortised pricing, someone could potentially have ended up paying this twice, say if someone migrated from Spectrum 1000/220 to Cerberus 1000/220 service as Spectrum charge the £500+ up front.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 12-Aug-19 11:46:07)

Standard User Mendip
(learned) Mon 12-Aug-19 14:06:55
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Staying on this interesting topic, and this is aimed at the 'Engineers that do'.....

I have a four port ONT with three out of four ports used. I would like to have 1000/220 on one of the ports. Simple so far.

However I have some questions:

a) Will the existing four port ONT remain? Or does this require another ONT?
b) Can the 330/50 and 1000/220 services coexist on the same ONT?
c) Will the single fibre drop line remain? That is, is there a requirement to replace or install an additional fibre drop line? Or is the balance of the work conducted at the exchange for the XGPON component?
d) I guess what I am really asking is, what happens on a 'site visit' for 1000/220 install, when there is already a fully working four port ONT with one spare port?

Many, many thanks in advance.

Mendip.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 14:24:15
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Mendip] [link to this post]
 
According to what everyone has said so far (although I don't know if anyone has actually seen a live installation of 1000/220), 1000/220 is delivered over regular ONT, with a future possibility of upgrade to XGPON.

If that's true, I'd expect you'd get this as another service on your existing ONT, using the spare port.

At some point in the future, they may choose to move the 1000/220 service onto an XGPON ONT. While in principle this could share the same fibre, the additional losses of another inline splitter may not be acceptable, and I'd guess they're more likely to run a separate fibre drop.

I do know that Talktalk and Vodafone/Cityfibre run 1000/1000 on a regular GPON ONT.
Standard User Mendip
(learned) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:04:48
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thank you Candlerb - much appreciated.

So if I understand you correctly, a straightforward procedure at the moment with ISPs using WBC FTTP 1000/220, because 'currently' they are using GPON ONT (and XGPON at the other end) and not an XGPON ONT, but that could change in the future.

Thus currently, 330/50 and 1000/220 could coexist using the same drop wire and ONT without modification on a four port ONT. Do I understand what you have said correctly?

Many, many thanks.

Mendip.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:08:02
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Mendip] [link to this post]
 
Whether you have blown fibre to the CSP or a connectorised install, each fibre strand supports at least 4 FTTP services so you should be ok. As candlerb says the 1 Gig service should run off the same 4 port ONT you have already. Obviously for additional FTTP service(s) you will need to order a Ďnewí service rather than a Ďmigrationí.

Btw in case youíre not aware, Openreach have (or will do) release new/revised half gig and 1gig FTTP tiers. They should be cheaper but with reduced upload speeds (halved). So if upload isnít important, perhaps worth waiting for a while for the new speeds to appear in the wild. Sky will start selling Openreach FTTP in Q4 of this year and if they decide to sell the higher tiers, they will almost certainly sell these new tiers.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8477-openreach-p...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 12-Aug-19 15:32:17)

Standard User Mendip
(learned) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:24:15
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Thank you Baby_Frogmella - very much appreciated.

All clear now. Will evaluate, and if I go ahead, I will report back.

Once again, many thanks to you both for super fast and knowledgeable responses.

Mendip.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:38:40
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Mendip] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Mendip:
So if I understand you correctly, a straightforward procedure at the moment with ISPs using WBC FTTP 1000/220, because 'currently' they are using GPON ONT (and XGPON at the other end)


Not exactly. GPON and XGPON run side-by-side on different wavelengths, like ships that pass in the night. So if the service is GPON at your end, it's GPON at the headend as well.

If and when they upgrade to XGPON, they can multiplex GPON and XGPON equipment onto the same fibre at the headend. Then they can move individual users over to XGPON ONTs, without affecting the remaining users still on GPON.
Standard User Mendip
(learned) Mon 12-Aug-19 15:48:31
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thank you once again candlerb.

Sorry for my misunderstanding, I am just trying to get my head around what actually will be done at each end of the fibre.

I assumed the install cost was for XGPON at the Network end, but then wondered whether that would work with the existing GPON? four port ONT. I am guessing that will work, is that correct?

Or I guess what I am asking is, what is the £500 install cost for, and what if anything will happen at my premises? I understand from what you have said, as not a lot, and all the magic happens at the other end (exchange?), correct?

Thank you so much in advance for your time explaining this.

Mendip.
Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 16:08:49
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Mendip] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Mendip:
Or I guess what I am asking is, what is the £500 install cost for


What people here are saying is, the money is banked by OpenReach and set aside to pay for a possible future upgrade to XGPON, if and when it's required.

However, as this is a relatively new product (*), the practical details will be wait-and-see. If you order it, please let us know what happens smile

(*) Technically it's been available from Openreach for a while, but there haven't been any ISPs selling it until recently.
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Mon 12-Aug-19 17:55:29
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: Mendip] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Just to add that GPON is restricted to ~2.5Gbps download and 1.5Gbps upstream, and that is shared amongst everyone else connected to the same fibre. So at the fibre in your home, you are actually receiving everyone's data, like a broadcast, and the ONT only listens/de-crypts data destined for you. Each broadcast at 2.5Gbps down and 1.5 up might be shared between a dozen or more properties, I think the maximum is 32 way split on BT.

So because you see everyone's data on your fibre, adding additional services doesn't need another fibre as it will just arrive as part of the Ďbroadcastí, and the ONT just needs to be set up to listen to and decrypt another customer connection, which just happens to be in the same ONT in the same property.

The problem of course is if you take a 1Gbps service, then in theory if you saturate your connection and use all that bandwidth, it only leaves 1.5Gbps between the remaining customers. Take another 1Gbps service (or someone else does) and you are only leaving 0.5Gbps between the other users on your fibre. So you could significantly impact on every one else, although in reality its fairly hard to saturate a 1Gbps download bandwidth for any length of time, there is a risk of course.

So the extra amount up front does a couple of things, makes it less likely people would upgrade, and if they do, the money is banked should later on you need to be shifted off GPON to XGPON, so giving back the capacity you had taken on the GPON version to everyone else. As both work together over the same fibre, you would just need a new ONT your end, and Openreach splice in the XGPON kit into the same fibre at their end. XGPON provides 10Gbps download bandwidth, so if that was enabled then the fibre is carrying 2.5Gpbs on GPON and 10Gbps over XGPON.

Regards

Phil
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Aug-19 02:11:34
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Cerberus are now selling the half gig & 1 Gig services nationwide over BT Wholesale tails. They ain't cheap though! However I imagine the prices will gradually drop over time.

https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/node/183#cerberus...

You'll probably need to place the order over the phone as their online checker still shows 330/50 as the max FTTP speed available for a particular property.


What a stupid £259 per month (Vodafone 900Mbps down and up for only £48 per month) how on earth openreach and bt wholesale think it still reasonably competitive?
Standard User Chipmunk77
(newbie) Tue 13-Aug-19 15:10:06
Print Post

Re: Openreach 1 Gig FTTP now 'available'


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
What a stupid £259 per month (Vodafone 900Mbps down and up for only £48 per month) how on earth openreach and bt wholesale think it still reasonably competitive?


Vodafone only serve a few tens of thousands, so it's not really competition at all.

BT's real competition is Virgin. As they deliver 500 then 1000, BT will be forced to do likewise.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Chipmunk77 (Tue 13-Aug-19 21:36:08)

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to