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Standard User Retron
(newbie) Wed 04-Jul-18 17:08:43
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FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[link to this post]
 
As the other FTTPoD threads are now quite long, and as suggested by candlerb, here's a thread for posting the results of a full survey as compared to the original desktop quote for FTTPoD.

To kick the thread off, I applied in March for a quote via Cerberus. I live in a rural location, around 200m from the nearest cabinet but just under a mile from the exchange. As far as I can tell, most of the route from the exchange to the cabinet is underground, with overhead lines and poles from the cabinet to the surrounding houses (including mine).

I don't know where the aggregation node is.

I was quoted £13,600+VAT by the desktop survey. I've been waiting since for an engineer appointment to be made, but out of the blue I had an email earlier today saying:

"Your estimated build charge was in excess of £13,600.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £3,342.67 + VAT."

That isn't a typo - it's around £10,000 less than the quote! I've asked for confirmation that it's the correct amount. After all, I haven't seen an engineer - they could have come when I was at work, though, and as the connection comes in from a pole, runs down my wall and into the dining room it perhaps doesn't need anyone to see inside the house.

I'll update the post if the final amount changes but for now I'm hopeful that I've scored a bargain!
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Jul-18 17:20:20
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
The quote won’t be for the final drop and lead in, its for all the rest of the malarkey.

But well done, go bag a bargain.

I wonder if that original high quote was trying to sort the ‘wheat from the chaff’, get rid of the metaphorical tyre kickers and time wasters ?

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Jul-18 17:39:16
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
"Your estimated build charge was in excess of £13,600.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £3,342.67 + VAT."


If its a "confirmed" build charge that suggests Openreach have done some sort of survey. Though its a bit surprising the Surveyor didn't call you in advance to have a quick peek inside your home, that certainly happened in the case of mine (and others) FoD installs.

Anyhow, congratulations on getting a bargain and good luck with the install smile

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 04-Jul-18 17:49:11)


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Standard User craski
(committed) Wed 04-Jul-18 19:43:46
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
its a bit surprising the Surveyor didn't call you in advance to have a quick peek inside your home


Agreed if for courtesy if nothing else but I guess the configuration within the house has little impact on the overall price so not a necessity.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User craski
(committed) Wed 04-Jul-18 19:46:17
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
If it can be purchased using a £3k gigabit connection voucher that will be pretty sweet!

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 04-Jul-18 21:51:08
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Here's mine:

- Initial desktop survey quote: £13,700+VAT. 14 properties passed.
- Final post-survey quote: £6,600+VAT, on top of £250+VAT survey fee already paid. 3 properties passed.

The order has gone in and I am very happy smile

The survey team consisted of three vans with two people each, and they were pulling up duct covers down the street all day, from before 9.30am until after 4pm. Definitely would have cost Openreach more than £250.

I asked the lead surveyor where the fibre aggregation node was, and he indicated a road junction about 600m walking distance away. Under the old pricing scheme I was in Band G (1500-2000m radial); so either I'm benefitting from a recently-installed FAN, or the previous system had old data in it. In any case, the new system has definitely worked for me.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Jul-18 22:18:49
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, so it looks like Openreach are using this FTTPoD quote generator after all!! lol

For those in the £39k club, will be fascinating to know what their confirmed build costs are....

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 04-Jul-18 22:19:10)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 05-Jul-18 09:30:21
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Very interesting. If I end up moving house soon then I might ask for both an estimated quote and then for an actual quote. If it turns out to be somewhere in the region of up to around 7000 pounds at most then I'll most likely go ahead.
Standard User Anth
(learned) Thu 05-Jul-18 18:40:06
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I wish mine would turn up.

I was quoted a Band B £1,800 ex vat on the old system in January.

Was quoted £20,600 ex vat on the new in April.

Paid the £300 in April hoping and praying it would be less than this as I could never afford this and could not believe an £18,000 difference in the space of 2 months.

The full site survey was done on Friday 1st June where I was given the depressing news that no ducting exists whatsoever between my property and the aggregation node.

But still 5 weeks later no final figure from Cerebrus. I wish they'd just put me out of my misery.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 06-Jul-18 10:27:33
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anth:
5 weeks later no final figure from Cerebrus. I wish they'd just put me out of my misery.


Hopefully shouldn't be long. Mine was nearly 4 weeks from survey to quote. It was almost 12 weeks from order to survey!
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Fri 06-Jul-18 15:36:28
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
If your surveyor was telling the truth then cases like yours are the reasons why they ditched fixed band pricing and I wouldn't expect your quote to drop in the slightest.

400m of DIG (Direct in Ground) buried cable down a main carriageway will not be a cheap job.
OpenReach currently charge £112.05 per meter to install ducting down a carriageway.
That makes your £20,600 quote look cheap!!

You may be lucky and it might only be the very final stretch that has no ducting. If it's the whole way to the Agg Node you may as well forget about FTTPod.
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Fri 06-Jul-18 17:03:06
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
I'll update the post if the final amount changes but for now I'm hopeful that I've scored a bargain!

After a few more emails back and forth it seems that if the cable run from the street is straightforward (as it is in my case, coming in from some telegraph poles) then the surveyor doesn't need to enter the building.

So, as my actual cost will be under a quarter of the initial estimate, it looks like the initial desk surveys can be well wide of the mark. Hopefully others will find out that it's a "worst case" pricing rather than anything else!
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 09-Jul-18 10:06:36
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anth:
I was quoted a Band B £1,800 ex vat on the old system in January.


Remember that the old system came with a three year contract with buried extra charges over the whole term. On Cerberus' pricing, the extra cost compared to today would be (36x165 - 12x100 - 24x62.50) = £3,240. So if your final quote comes out at £5,040 or less, you'll be better off than under the old system.

If you are trading from that property, meaning you're eligible for the £3K government gigabit voucher, then at £8,040 or less you are still better off (or £7,540 if you can't claim back the VAT)
Standard User Anth
(learned) Mon 09-Jul-18 17:58:57
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Finally just had the quote from Cerebrus. And it says

"The estimated build charge was £20,600 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £14,650 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and the £700.00 deduction per FTTPoD order."

So with VAT that works out at £17,580 final cost after the full survey for what was a Band B property less than 400m from the AgNode in a housing estate.

Way out of my available price range. And this it seems is it for me in terms of FTTP on demand.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 09-Jul-18 19:41:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
Oh, that's a real shame. You can take some comfort that with such a difficult install you might still have been subject to ECCs under the old system - although in that case you could have dropped out without losing £250+VAT.

I think it's interesting that your final quote was still significantly lower than the desktop one. It seems the desktop quote system may be a simple model with some pessimistic assumptions, perhaps based on the more problematic FTTPoD installs that OR have had to deal with.

I can see the logic in OR working this way. If someone puts in an order expecting to pay (say) £10K which they could afford, pays for a survey and then finds the price has gone up to £20K which they can't afford, they will be understandably aggrieved at having wasted £250. But if the price drops, they will be happy.

Good on OpenReach for doing this - and especially for not holding people to the higher initial estimates.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 09-Jul-18 20:02:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You can take some comfort that with such a difficult install you might still have been subject to ECCs under the old system


ECCs were unheard of under the old pricing structure, so Anth would almost certainly have got the service installed for £1800 (Band B) & monthly costs of £150+ on a 3 year term.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User mumba
(regular) Tue 10-Jul-18 23:04:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
You can take some comfort that with such a difficult install you might still have been subject to ECCs under the old system


ECCs were unheard of under the old pricing structure, so Anth would almost certainly have got the service installed for £1800 (Band B) & monthly costs of £150+ on a 3 year term.


Agreed the whole reason they changed the pricing structure was because OR was taking all the risk on ECC's before and were probably losing lots of money on average as a result. My install involved 18 blocked ducts, a new pole to be erected and 9 months of work by OR. They never charged me a cent for ECC's because they couldn't.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 11-Jul-18 18:08:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: mumba] [link to this post]
 
> because they couldn't.

FluidOne told me they could, but rarely did - the guy could think of one case of ECCs being raised on an order, I think it was band G.
Standard User mumba
(regular) Thu 12-Jul-18 00:24:00
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
> because they couldn't.

FluidOne told me they could, but rarely did - the guy could think of one case of ECCs being raised on an order, I think it was band G.


You are right I think after their initial physical survey they could add ECC's and give you the optiion to cancel the order but after that they couldn't.

So OR did their initial survey for me thought things were going to be easy and only discovered there were lots of issues when they started doing the work. OR couldn't pass on ECC's to me as they had accepted the order under the fixed price. I would guess under the new system their initial physical survey is more detailed and would involve rodding the ducts etc.
Standard User Clavius
(newbie) Thu 12-Jul-18 17:27:07
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Here's mine:

- Initial desktop survey quote: £9,500.00 + VAT.
- Final post-survey quote: £4,050.00 + VAT.

Going ahead.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 12-Jul-18 18:15:28
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Clavius] [link to this post]
 
Nice one smile

Out of interest, do you know what "band" you were in under the old pricing scheme?
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Fri 13-Jul-18 00:17:33
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
When people are writing the prices is that just for the work being carried out, or does it include the monthly subscription fee as well?

Probably an obvious answer but just making sure I understand it.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User Anth
(learned) Fri 13-Jul-18 00:43:48
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Just the work carried out
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 13-Jul-18 07:02:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
With Cerberus it's £100+VAT per month for the initial 12 month contract at 330/30. I don't know what FluidOne are offering these days.

After that, it reverts to regular FTTP pricing. If you stick with Cerberus it's £62.50+VAT per month for 330/30 or 330/50 (depending on what your line supports), or you can change to a lower speed, or switch to a completely different provider.
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Fri 13-Jul-18 10:04:29
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: mumba] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mumba:
Agreed the whole reason they changed the pricing structure was because OR was taking all the risk on ECC's before and were probably losing lots of money on average as a result. My install involved 18 blocked ducts, a new pole to be erected and 9 months of work by OR. They never charged me a cent for ECC's because they couldn't.


I don't see why clearing blocked ducts should be chargeable to a customer anyway, after all it's unlikely to be the customers fault that the ducts have become blocked.

A bit like ordering a taxi to the airport 100 miles away and the taxi driver charging the customer for a new engine because he doesn't think his car will make the journey on the old one.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Standard User boxst
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 13-Jul-18 10:43:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
I just had my desktop quote at £18,800 + VAT. I don't think I will proceed with the survey as even if they come back with 50% that is too much for me. I'm just about to buy this house and was hoping there was a solution to the 11mb-15mb estimate that the checkers give (I currently get full 76mb).
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 13-Jul-18 11:10:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
Because you are requesting something on demand that they otherwise wouldn't do. It could be those ducts could stay blocked for 30 years and make no impact on service delivery - but if you want them cleared now to get a new service then you pay to have them cleared.
Standard User Anth
(learned) Fri 13-Jul-18 12:02:21
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Rastus:
I don't see why clearing blocked ducts should be chargeable to a customer anyway, after all it's unlikely to be the customers fault that the ducts have become blocked.


When the OR survey was done the guy from OR said its not my fault there is no ducting laid between my property and the AGnode and I should not need to pay for that as that is what OR are required to provide for customers.

But my charge was for me to pay for it all for my estate to have new ducting laid.

Hence why I refused. What should be and seems right is not what occurs with FTTP on demand with OR.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 13-Jul-18 13:06:53
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
If there are several people in your estate who are prepared to pay for fibre, you can club together for a combined FTTPoD order.

I'm not sure where the crossover between this and CFP is.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 13-Jul-18 13:47:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
I'm not sure where the crossover between this and CFP is.

In a Community Fibre Partnership, Openreach will partially fund the build hence why its only offered in areas where no kind of superfast broadband exists.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 13-Jul-18 19:57:01)

Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Fri 13-Jul-18 19:25:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
I requested an initial quote from Cerberus on 2 July and had my estimated build quote back exactly a week later for £4900 +VAT.

The number of "premises passed" is 2, one of which is my place. I am not sure how OpenReach work this out, as there are several small holdings along the private road where our main BT copper lines are strung via pole.

They have given me the address of the other premises passed and it is our immediate neighbour. TBH not sure I'm going to bother with the hassle of trying to get my neighbour on board. Given this scale of cost and they are retired and not running a business, I'm 99.9% sure I know what their answer will be in any event. I'm hoping the voucher scheme will cover £3k of whatever the final price is, as we trade from this address under a limited company.

So on this basis I've now instructed Cerberus to proceed with the survey to get the finalised price, and have now been allocated a CO number.

We are at least 0.6 miles from a recently installed FTTC cabinet, but I have no idea if the fibre Ag Node is near this or further away.

Because we are in the sticks, our exchange has been graded as Market A, so not only is there the higher FTTPoD
charge in the first 12 months, there is also a surcharge applied! Can anyone confirm if this surcharge ceases after the initial 12 months?

I'll give an update, hopefully in a few weeks, when the final build cost comes back.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 13-Jul-18 21:45:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
The number of "premises passed" is 2, one of which is my place. I am not sure how OpenReach work this out, as there are several small holdings along the private road where our main BT copper lines are strung via pole.


"Properties passed" doesn't mean the number of properties that the fibre passes. It means the number of properties which will be served from a distribution point; it therefore depends on how they design the access network.

Regarding the market A surcharge: I don't know the answer, but I'm sure Cerberus will tell you. Out of interest, how much is the surcharge?
Standard User Sammm_
(newbie) Sat 14-Jul-18 00:03:01
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ? Surely that couple grand is not worth it when you could get FTTC speeds with no install cost.

Central London EO Line 12/0.8 on Zen ADSL
Standard User candlerb
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 07:16:48
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sammm_:
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ?


Depends on distance to cabinet. My current FTTC gives about 30M down and 4M up. It's the slow upstream speed that's the killer for me.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-Jul-18 08:52:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
It’s an all round ‘better’ product, better latency, a more robust delivery method, is clearly more future proofed, no cross talk, no HR, no internal wiring to naff it up, etc, etc.

Standard User tomse43
(regular) Sat 14-Jul-18 10:18:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
Most general home-users who mostly use their internet to check emails, general web-browsing etc. wouldn't cough up the cost, but a lot who do go for it run their businesses from home and require all the benefits that FTTP brings over FTTC. To them, FTTPoD is worth it's weight in gold.
Standard User Anth
(learned) Sat 14-Jul-18 10:50:46
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sammm_:
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ? Surely that couple grand is not worth it when you could get FTTC speeds with no install cost.


Why do people pay £12,000 to £15,000 for a new car that loses a third of its value the second you drive it off the forecourt when you can buy a good second hand car for a £1000 from any dealer in your region and get good enough performance.

If you do not see value in something it does not mean others do not.

I want the low latency and incredible speeds as I live in a household that everyone streams netflix simultaniously.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Sat 14-Jul-18 11:36:46
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
The number of "premises passed" is 2, one of which is my place. I am not sure how OpenReach work this out, as there are several small holdings along the private road where our main BT copper lines are strung via pole.


They only count premises that share the same copper DP.
It's not literally the number of premises the fibre passes. This would be in the hundreds for some people.
So if there's a row of telegraph poles serving different houses nearby then only those on your pole (if that's where the DP is) would be counted.
Well that's exactly how it works on any order I've seen the details of.

Because we are in the sticks, our exchange has been graded as Market A, so not only is there the higher FTTPoD
charge in the first 12 months, there is also a surcharge applied! Can anyone confirm if this surcharge ceases after the initial 12 months?


Makes no sense.
The fibre doesn't come from the local exchange for most. It usually comes from a larger parent/head-end exchange.

I'm sure Plusnet stopped the scam of charging higher prices to FTTC customers on Market A exchanges despite the fact their fibre comes from a Market B exchange.

Was it Cerberus who advised you of this surcharge?

Does anyone else know any details of this? It's the 1st I've heard of it.
Standard User Webbs
(newbie) Sat 14-Jul-18 11:51:53
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Was it Cerberus who advised you of this surcharge?

Does anyone else know any details of this? It's the 1st I've heard of it.


I'm on a Market A exchange and Cerberus told me the same (i.e. that Market A exchanges incur a surcharge).
Standard User Webbs
(newbie) Sat 14-Jul-18 11:56:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In a Community Fibre Partnership, Openreach will partially fund the build hence why its only offered in areas where no kind of superfast broadband exists.


I think the funding from BT has eligibility requirements yes, but one can already have FTTC of over 30mbps and still form a CFP if desired. I'm doing so currently with some neighbouring residents, all of us are on FTTC getting around 40-45 mbps down speeds on average. Just going through the initial 'modelling' stage with OR presently...
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Sat 14-Jul-18 12:33:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
How are you guys getting this Voucher scheme? I've contacted my local council and they keep replying that they have no information yet and to try again in a few Months.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Sat 14-Jul-18 12:44:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk

Suppliers
The Gigabit Broadband Voucher Scheme is supplier-led. This means suppliers will be requesting the voucher on behalf of their customers. The value of the voucher will contribute to the build cost of installing a full fibre connection at the customer’s premises.

Gigabit broadband vouchers are a one-off contribution to small and medium sized businesses and residential customers wanting to install a faster connection over gigabit capable infrastructure. Some suppliers already involved in the scheme have found that aggregating their customers has allowed them to increase their fibre footprint in areas they were previously unable to go.


You need to speak to the ISP you place the order with. Cerberus are registered as a supplier already.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 14-Jul-18 12:45:46)

Standard User lincsat
(learned) Sat 14-Jul-18 12:54:40
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that, I had been Googling but didn't find that. My Desktop quote was £3,900.00, I'll see what Cerberus come back with after the full OR survey
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Sat 14-Jul-18 15:36:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Regarding the market A surcharge: I don't know the answer, but I'm sure Cerberus will tell you. Out of interest, how much is the surcharge?

The Market A surcharge cost for Cerberus FTTPoD I've been quoted is £1140+VAT for 12 months, paid quarterly in advance.

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 14-Jul-18 15:37:40)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Sat 14-Jul-18 18:30:33
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
That's a lot - although on the flip side your install quote was very reasonable (and with luck may reduce on survey).

I found a discussion about the market A surcharge here - it sounds like the charge is applied by the service provider when they don't have backhaul to the exchange and have to buy it from someone else.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Jul-18 19:39:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
- it sounds like the charge is applied by the service provider when they don't have backhaul to the exchange and have to buy it from someone else.

Well Cerberus (along with Fluidone) use BT Wholesale as the backhaul provider for FTTPoD lines and considering all FTTP enabled exchanges already have BTW 21CN links in place, I’m utterly confused why Cerberus are charging extra on some lines. I don’t think Fluidone charge extra based on exchange classification.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Webbs
(newbie) Sun 15-Jul-18 08:13:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
- it sounds like the charge is applied by the service provider when they don't have backhaul to the exchange and have to buy it from someone else.

Well Cerberus (along with Fluidone) use BT Wholesale as the backhaul provider for FTTPoD lines and considering all FTTP enabled exchanges already have BTW 21CN links in place, I’m utterly confused why Cerberus are charging extra on some lines. I don’t think Fluidone charge extra based on exchange classification.


This was the reasoning given to me from Cerberus by email:

“The monthly cost I have quoted for the FTTPoD service has an extra surcharge levied as the site is within OFCOM Market Exchange A. This exchange rate areas are essentially where there is no competition with broadband providers, so in Market A exchanges BT pricing is higher non all broadband services and surcharge is levied on the rental.”
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jul-18 10:05:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Webbs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Webbs:
This was the reasoning given to me from Cerberus by email:

“The monthly cost I have quoted for the FTTPoD service has an extra surcharge levied as the site is within OFCOM Market Exchange A. This exchange rate areas are essentially where there is no competition with broadband providers, so in Market A exchanges BT pricing is higher non all broadband services and surcharge is levied on the rental.”


But exchanges where FTTP/FTTPoD lines terminate at will almost certainly NOT be market A, ie its only the larger/major exchanges which support full fibre and therefore not always your nearest exchange. I could understand it if they levied the surcharge on 20CN lines like Plusnet do (or did) but for 21CN FTTP/FTTPoD lines? But let's not forget that Cerberus have previous for giving out incorrect pricing...remember the bargain basement offer of £88.50 per month for FTTPoD under the old pricing structure? I wonder if Ofcom might take an interest in Cerberus' discriminatory pricing practice...

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sun 15-Jul-18 10:06:14)

Standard User Retron
(newbie) Sun 15-Jul-18 10:13:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
But exchanges where FTTP/FTTPoD lines terminate at will almost certainly NOT be market A, ie its only the larger/major exchanges which support full fibre and therefore not always your nearest exchange.

It's actually around 10% of exchanges, including mine.

The email I had from Cerberus with the final quote mentioned it thus:

"I have checked the original order placed in March. This shows that you are connected to an Ofcom market A exchange. This means that the service rental is subject to a surcharge. Ofcom has released their draft consultation on markets and this states that the number of market A exchanges will reduce from arounf 9.7% of exchanges to around 0.7% of exchanges. The result will be that, should you go ahead with this order, that the rental price charged will be the market B pricing – i.e. not subject to the additional surcharge. The final statement will be released within 3 weeks, after which a date will be announced for implementing these changes."

However, they immediately contradicted themselves by charging me a Market A surcharge on the "prepay the first quarter" invoice. I'm assuming that's because, as yet, the exchange is still Market A. I'd hope for a refund if it changes before my connection goes live!

In reply to a post by Sammm_:
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ? Surely that couple grand is not worth it when you could get FTTC speeds with no install cost.

In my case, because I can afford it and I want a faster connection than the 76/20 line I have at the moment. I also want to future-proof my connection, with the aim of upgrading to 1000/220 in due course.

Edited by Retron (Sun 15-Jul-18 10:15:15)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jul-18 11:43:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
The question is, are Cerberus being charged extra by BT Wholesale for certain FTTP/FTTPoD lines? If not, then it seems like a unfair surcharge and one that Ofcom may take an interest in.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sun 15-Jul-18 11:44:03)

Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Sun 15-Jul-18 12:55:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
The question is, are Cerberus being charged extra by BT Wholesale for certain FTTP/FTTPoD lines? If not, then it seems like a unfair surcharge and one that Ofcom may take an interest in.


In essence yes, The effect essentially is that Wholesale are not allowed to provide us competitive pricing in Market A.
The cost overhead is significant.

As was mentioned above, the BMCR draft is out which will greatly reduce the size of Market A and in the case of GEA, use the head-end exchange's market instead. (There are still some head-ends in market A, so this wont go away for everyone).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statement...

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm

Edited by Blmcg (Sun 15-Jul-18 12:56:04)

Standard User Clavius
(newbie) Sun 15-Jul-18 16:25:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Sorry for the delayed reply. I wasn't given the details of the fibre routing but my cabinet is about 1.5 km away so a guess would be that I would fall into band G. With the confirmed build cost of £4,050.00 + VAT it would seem in my case I'll be saving around £2,000 compared with the old pricing scheme.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Sun 15-Jul-18 19:44:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Clavius] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Clavius:
my cabinet is about 1.5 km away so a guess would be that I would fall into band G.


FTTP goes back to a fibre aggregation node, not a cabinet, so if you didn't get a quote under the old system then you won't know what band you're in.

In my case, I'm 480m radially from my serving FTTC cabinet, about 900m along the road route, but under the old pricing scheme I was in band G (1500m-2000m radial to fibre aggregation node).
Standard User andyhurley
(regular) Mon 16-Jul-18 15:39:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sammm_:
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ? Surely that couple grand is not worth it when you could get FTTC speeds with no install cost.


My FTTC speed is 3-4mbps so really pretty rubbish and barely good enough to stream iPlayer - certainly not if 2 people are online. That said the FTTPoD price came back as £39000 so I didn't bother with the full survey - no way I can afford even half that. Only 4 properties passed which will be us, the church and a couple of bungalows. No way I can persuade any of them to to join in.

Hopefully in a year or so we will have a Gigaclear option which will be more affordable - just in time for us to be moved on to another house.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Mon 16-Jul-18 16:30:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
It's actually around 10% of exchanges, including mine.

The email I had from Cerberus with the final quote mentioned it thus:

"I have checked the original order placed in March. This shows that you are connected to an Ofcom market A exchange. This means that the service rental is subject to a surcharge. Ofcom has released their draft consultation on markets and this states that the number of market A exchanges will reduce from arounf 9.7% of exchanges to around 0.7% of exchanges. The result will be that, should you go ahead with this order, that the rental price charged will be the market B pricing – i.e. not subject to the additional surcharge. The final statement will be released within 3 weeks, after which a date will be announced for implementing these changes."

However, they immediately contradicted themselves by charging me a Market A surcharge on the "prepay the first quarter" invoice. I'm assuming that's because, as yet, the exchange is still Market A. I'd hope for a refund if it changes before my connection goes live!

Thank you. It appears we are in the "lucky" 10% of exchanges graded as Market A!!

As said hopefully this surcharge will cease completely after Ofcom implement their findings from the latest 2017/2018 WBA review as linked above. It would be desperately unlucky to be tied to an exchange that is in the 0.7% that still remain as Market A.

For me it's a matter of wait and see what the final build cost comes back at. If it is indeed favourable, then the next question may be one of timing - as in exactly when will Ofcom officially regrade (hopefully vast majority of) Market A exchanges to Market B and how does this play into the timing of my agreement with Cerberus should I decide to go ahead.

I certainly wouldn't want to be contractually tied into paying another £1140+VAT for the next 12 months for the sake of a few weeks of poor timing, should it come down to that.

Maybe I better read those Cerberus T&Cs....
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Mon 16-Jul-18 18:32:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Just looking at latest BT Wholesale Prices (effective 1 June 2018) for FTTPoD.

Rental pricing for FTTPoD appears identical for either Market A or Market B....

https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service...

Am I missing something or being thick? I thought the Market A Surcharge was to cover additional costs that BT imposed on the ISP for customers served from an exchange in Market A.

If not then what exactly is this Market A Surcharge for?
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(experienced) Mon 16-Jul-18 18:38:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anth:
In reply to a post by Sammm_:
Why do many people actually go through the FTTPoD install cost when you have FTTC ? Surely that couple grand is not worth it when you could get FTTC speeds with no install cost.


Why do people pay £12,000 to £15,000 for a new car that loses a third of its value the second you drive it off the forecourt when you can buy a good second hand car for a £1000 from any dealer in your region and get good enough performance.

If you do not see value in something it does not mean others do not.

I want the low latency and incredible speeds as I live in a household that everyone streams netflix simultaniously.


That is the key. You don't need a stable 10Mbit/sec connection for more than one device. Think about it, how long would it take you to expend all available storage? And if you're on a "limited" package, how much would you actually pay per month? I'm still on ADSL2+ because of the price difference between an equal usage service. It wouldn't be simply the advertised price for the maxed-out stream, it would be the price of the cheapest FTTC plus the massive cost of going over 30GB per month. I really don't understand why people fail to calculate this. 30GB per month is equivalent to a limit imposed a decade ago, and you'll only run into it much more quickly.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Mon 16-Jul-18 18:41:19)

Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Tue 17-Jul-18 02:02:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Just looking at latest BT Wholesale Prices (effective 1 June 2018) for FTTPoD.

Rental pricing for FTTPoD appears identical for either Market A or Market B....

https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service...

Am I missing something or being thick? I thought the Market A Surcharge was to cover additional costs that BT imposed on the ISP for customers served from an exchange in Market A.

If not then what exactly is this Market A Surcharge for?


WBC Bandwidth, that price is just a tail, doesn't cover the main cost which is the bandwidth.
Small piece of the puzzle.

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange...

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-Jul-18 10:21:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
Most packages are unlimited, I certainly haven't needed to worry about how much data we download for years. If regularly going over your allowed limit, then you'd upgrade to a bigger or unlimited package.

As for storage, streaming doesn't use any but can eat through data.

Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Tue 17-Jul-18 21:53:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I would tend to agree.

It really would not surprise me though if BT OpenReach/Wholesale charged the ISP FTTP(od) rental based on the local PSTN exchange Market A rating, not the parent/fibre head-end exchange Market rating.

If that is the case it's pretty shocking considering the local exchange isn't used in the slightest for these products.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Tue 17-Jul-18 23:05:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
I would tend to agree.

It really would not surprise me though if BT OpenReach/Wholesale charged the ISP FTTP(od) rental based on the local PSTN exchange Market A rating, not the parent/fibre head-end exchange Market rating.

If that is the case it's pretty shocking considering the local exchange isn't used in the slightest for these products.

Or conversely the ISP decided to charge an extra surcharge, simply to take advantage of customers in Market A exchanges, even though their actual cost from BT Wholesale was near enough the same.

Nah that would never happen wink

Does Ofcom actually check this? After all this whole Market malarky is just an Ofcom competition construct based on hypothetical analysis...

What happens now that Ofcom have completed and will shortly publish in full their WBA review where roughly 10% of exchanges that are Market A shrink to the roughly 1% - has anything actually changed in reality the day they announce it??

I hope my £1140+VAT proposed surcharge disappears rather quickly.

Nah that would never happen wink
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 18-Jul-18 04:55:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
one thing these FTTPoD threads has shown is that all the stuff about consumers not willing to "pay for broadband" is becoming a bit of a myth and its more about "CPs not willing to pay openreach".

When someone considers 3k a bargain for good quality broadband. smile

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 18-Jul-18 05:05:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
its a lot of money, but I expect the people paying it out are reasonably affluent, either on a good salary or have a fair chunk of cash sitting around, also if they own the property there is probably considerations of the affect on the property value as well.

Would I pay it if I had moderate FTTC speeds of say 30/5? and interleaving. If I owned my property and had a lot of disposable income (20k+ a year after living costs) quite possibly yes.
On the flip side if I had 80/20 fast path, living in rented property, had disposable income of barely 1k a year it wouldnt even be considered and seen as an insane waste of money.

So for different people the value can be seen very differently.

The major niggle for me regardless of situation would be that I am effectively paying for the assets and handing over ownership to openreach.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Jul-18 07:22:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
I hope my £1140+VAT proposed surcharge disappears rather quickly.


Why don't you also get a quote from FluidOne? AFAIK they don't have an exchange surcharge.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Jul-18 07:35:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The major niggle for me regardless of situation would be that I am effectively paying for the assets and handing over ownership to openreach.


If Openreach passed ownership of fibre to the end user then maintenance, repair and eventual replacement of the fibre would also be the end user's responsibility. Would you be happy to pay such costs? I certainly wouldn't....

For example, my FTTPoD line experienced a total Loss of Service (LOS) for a few days last year d/t some numpty messing up my line profile at the exchange yet Openreach did not charge me a penny when initially trying to troubleshoot (fibre break was the initial suspicion) by sending an Engineer out in the pouring rain who inspected the PON at various points for 4 miles all the way to the exchange.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 18-Jul-18 16:02:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I would own assets which would possibly be purchased of me at a later date, leased from me, would the costs exceed the value of the assets?, also assets can be used to secure credit at more favourable terms as well.

Pros and cons, I am not saying I would refuse on these grounds just it would niggle me. I just feel if openreach own the assets then it has to be subsidised to a degree to factor in they own the assets. Maybe it is already subsidised and the actual cost to openreach is higher than what people are been quoted, but these quoted costs are already way higher than what other telco's spend on rolling out fibre.

It is a bit like buying a house but then not owning it, how would you feel about that?

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 18-Jul-18 16:04:14)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Jul-18 16:13:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Or it's a bit like paying to get electricity lines, water pipes and gas pipes routed to a new build house.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Wed 18-Jul-18 16:35:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Why don't you also get a quote from FluidOne? AFAIK they don't have an exchange surcharge.

My understanding is that only one FTTPoD quote for a particular premises can be raised/worked on at a time via OpenReach. You cannot have two or more simultaneous quotes raised for the same service via different ISPs, they lock it out.

Therefore I would need to "conclude" my quote with Cerberus. However as I have now undertaken to pay for the survey (£250+VAT) to to get a final install charge I would no doubt lose this fee and have to pay it over again should I decide not to proceed.

I very much doubt it, but if anyone knows if the final build charge is somehow "portable" (between ISPs) or OpenReach will honour the confirmed build charge, if going ahead via a different ISP then the quote was originally raised through, then please do let me know.

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 18-Jul-18 16:36:27)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Jul-18 17:09:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
I don't think build costs are transferable between CPs for obvious reasons. However I don't see why you can't have multiple quotes. Probably worth giving FluidOne a call and if they can confirm 100% they don't have a surcharge for your exchange area then you could potentially save > £800 pa even if you were to lose the £250 survey fee by cancelling your Cerberus order. I think Fluidone's monthly service charges are ~ £100 but you would need to check with them.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Jul-18 17:33:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I just feel if openreach own the assets then it has to be subsidised to a degree to factor in they own the assets.


But the asset (usually) is just a piece of fibre cable and isn't worth a huge amount in itself so can't really be compared to owning a house. A large chunk of installation costs for FTTPoD will consist of the labour costs in laying the fibre (ie civil works).

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
[....] these quoted costs are already way higher than what other telco's spend on rolling out fibre.

Excluding leased lines, the likes of Cityfibre, Virgin Media, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic, B4RN et al do not offer a FTTP On Demand service to the general public so we cannot compare FTTPoD costs with other FTTP operators. If you mean in a commercial FTTP deployment, then I believe Openreach quote roughly £500 per premise passed in a mass FTTP deployment, similar to what other FTTP operators have quoted in the past. In a nutshell, cost of FTTP to one property is expensive but deployed to 1000's of homes at once brings down the cost massively.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Thu 19-Jul-18 01:48:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Why don't you also get a quote from FluidOne? AFAIK they don't have an exchange surcharge.

My understanding is that only one FTTPoD quote for a particular premises can be raised/worked on at a time via OpenReach. You cannot have two or more simultaneous quotes raised for the same service via different ISPs, they lock it out.

Therefore I would need to "conclude" my quote with Cerberus. However as I have now undertaken to pay for the survey (£250+VAT) to to get a final install charge I would no doubt lose this fee and have to pay it over again should I decide not to proceed.

I very much doubt it, but if anyone knows if the final build charge is somehow "portable" (between ISPs) or OpenReach will honour the confirmed build charge, if going ahead via a different ISP then the quote was originally raised through, then please do let me know.


Think of it this way:

Site survey is an activity that occurs as a part of a full order, which you have now placed.
If you cancel once you have the results (before proceeding, but for whatever reason), you pay for the effort involved so far, i.e. the survey work.

If you proceed, you are not charged this cost (or at least, OR & Wholesale don't charge this).

If you did cancel, but now knowing the survey results then raised a new order, they may survey it again, but it's practically going to come out the same/similar, so you'll only be charged a second time if you cancelled that order for some reason.

We've actually re-placed an in-flight order when the commercials changed and a re-survey was not required, cost was just recalculated based on the prior survey results and accepted to progress.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Jul-18 10:25:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
It is a bit like buying a house but then not owning it, how would you feel about that?


Lots of people do, it's called leasehold, mostly flats, but recently houses have also been sold as leasehold.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Jul-18 13:44:02
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Cars too, leasing them has become increasingly popular.

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Jul-18 13:54:42
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Leasing is more akin to rental though - you pay for the time you use it as you would with renting a house. With a car you pay for depreciation as well whereas houses mostly appreciate.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 19-Jul-18 15:10:14
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I'd say it's more like when a new housing estate is built. If you want water, electricity or gas, the developer (and hence indirectly the house purchaser) will have to pay for it to be brought in. That's surely the right thing; it would be unfair for anyone else to pay. But once it's built, the utility will own and manage the asset and charge for its use.

Another comparison is the roads in the new estate, which again are paid for by the developer, but are normally "adopted" by the local authority.

In that situation, it's possible for homeowners to assert "ownership" of the road they paid for, by letting it remain private and unadopted. This does happen sometimes, but normally people see the benefit of handing over responsibility. (Of course, the local authority is not a for-profit corporation, and that might make a difference to some people)

It seems to me that a fibre backbone is a similar shared-use resource to a road network. Certainly, there's a small part which is dedicated to you: the bit from the DP to your house, like your driveway connecting to the road. But the vast majority is potentially usable by many people, and claiming "ownership" over it would imply preventing its use by anyone else. That is, you'd be putting a toll booth on your private road.

In the long term, OpenReach may be able to use this resource to serve other people, and therefore save some construction cost - although not as much as you might think, compared to doing a full roll out from scratch.

If you don't think that getting fibre sooner isn't worth the cost, then you don't have to buy. Or you can try to persuade other people nearby to join in and share the cost.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Jul-18 15:30:31
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I'd say it's more like when a new housing estate is built. If you want water, electricity or gas, the developer (and hence indirectly the house purchaser) will have to pay for it to be brought in.
Indeed, as I said yesterday in this same thread here
Standard User Swac3
(newbie) Thu 19-Jul-18 19:05:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Well had my initial estimate back and unsurprisingly it's


Estimated Build Cost: in excess of £39,000.00 ex VAT
The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.


However what i cant figure is the premises passed ,

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 1

Is that additional to my own ? or just mine
Having walked and driven the routes out from our house, Properties are very far apart some up fairly long farm type gravel tracks in the 100's of meters but to get to the nearest cabinets or what i guess are BT road hatches you have to pass more than 1 property.

Still mulling over paying for the survey, its going to be expensive but based on the variance in peoples estimated and quoted prices I thought it would be worth a punt to get an actual price, I'd thought however the option of seriously talking someone else into a cost share might be viable but it doesnt look good.

Gary

Edited by Swac3 (Thu 19-Jul-18 19:12:56)

Standard User WilliamGrimsley
(experienced) Thu 19-Jul-18 20:59:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Swac3] [link to this post]
 
I think that's additional to your own.

William Grimsley.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 19-Jul-18 21:15:27
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Swac3] [link to this post]
 
It's in addition to your own, but it is NOT every property the fibre passes.
It is ONLY those properties that share the same Distribution Point.

With the kind of layout you describe I would only expect 1 or 2 (or even none) to be counted as "passed".
Openreach don't help themselves with the terminology but it has been repeated on here dozens of times that it isnt literally the premises the fibre passes.

With my area the fibre from the Agg Node to my property probably passes 400+ properties. Installation would end up free!
Standard User Swac3
(newbie) Thu 19-Jul-18 22:25:37
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, actually reading the entire email, does make the distinction clear, 1 additional.

This is that part that seems odd to me tho John83, In your case passing hundreds which i guess have different routes to their cab/AG potentially, But out here given the single track road and houses spread along its length, i'd figured that as i'd be basically funding the entire run if i was to order,they would service as many properties as possible along the way as well as extending the fibre reach.

That said maybe the cost of whatever junction boxes would be required for that is deemed unjustifiable based on the off chance those properties decided they wanted native fttp. or

If some houses closest to the AG are within range of an fttc cab would OR not include them in the passed number? , i could see that logically.

Still pondering paying for the survey. Its going to be a painful result regardless, but given the realistic deployment timescale of R100 in Scotland and the USO doing nothing in reality for a huge number of the slowest due to the cap at £3400, fine if like me you could absorb a chunk of excess charges but for many that cap just means potentially by 2033.

Looking at this as a total write off of funds vs a potential 10years plus with no improvement. Of course that might turn out to be false but i dont have a crystal ball.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 19-Jul-18 22:26:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Swac3] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Swac3:
Number of premises passed for FTTP: 1

Is that additional to my own ? or just mine


I think it's just yours. My initial quote had 14 properties passed but after survey went down to 3 properties passed. I asked which ones they were, and I was told it was mine plus two others; oddly, it was the immediate neighbour on one side, and the next-door-neighbour-but-one on the other side.

"Properties passed" doesn't mean which ones the fibre goes past. It means "properties to which FTTP service will be made available" - that is, properties sharing the same fibre distribution point. For example, if you are served by a pole, it would likely be other properties on the same pole.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 19-Jul-18 22:34:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Swac3] [link to this post]
 
If it worked like that then they would be activating all those 400+ properties between me and the Agg Node and giving me a discounts on every single 1 of them. They are all between me and the cabinet and follow my line exactly as I pass them. The Agg Node is then even further still up the road beyond my cabinet to the next.

However OpenReach won't be installing DP's all the way along the route, only at your property. Any properties served by DP will be activated for fibre, but only those properties.

There's no difference between all the houses spread along your road and the hundreds between me and my Agg Node. None of them will benefit from your installation unless served by the same DP.
Standard User Swac3
(newbie) Thu 19-Jul-18 22:52:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the input, john83/candlerb
I suppose i assumed they might have built with more of an eye to future expansion/orders.

So, ok, not knowing where the desktop survey based the 'passed' from specifically But it being 1 property i can guess which pole they would be looking at being the DP.

Even tracking back about 100m that would only add 1 house directly, but would seem a much better long term position for them to split off for future expansion. still not my problem.

Shame as it really does narrow my options of getting anyone else interested.

Edited by Swac3 (Thu 19-Jul-18 22:53:04)

Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 19-Jul-18 23:45:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Swac3] [link to this post]
 
I wouldn't recommend FTTPod for getting others involved in your situation.
I'd recommend trying the CFP route.
https://communityfibre.openreach.co.uk/
Standard User jamescompton
(newbie) Thu 19-Jul-18 23:54:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Just wondered if anyone else was unable to get even an initial desktop quote? I tried with Cerberus but got the following response

It would appear that BT were unable to deliver an estimated build charge for your address
This essentially means that their records are not good enough to be able to determine any costs using a desktop survey

We should have sent you an email ( it may be in your junk/spam folder)

It would still be possible to pay the £250.00 survey charge and get an actual site survey carried out by BT- this would be the only way to get a confirmed build cost, however given BT were unable to provide this would lead to a conclusion that installation charges would be quite high and certainly several £000's


I'm just wondering what BT/Openreach don't know about there own infrastructure that would lead to such an answer.
Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Fri 20-Jul-18 01:18:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: jamescompton] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jamescompton:
I'm just wondering what BT/Openreach don't know about there own infrastructure that would lead to such an answer.


Doesn't mean it hasn't been tried, just that it exceeds any reliable measure.

If the tool calculates something which would otherwise be above £35k it gives up as it's already made quite a lot of worst-case assumptions at that point.

Your only real option at this stage would be to place an order and get a survey done, or look at leased line options at a dedicated fibre node may well be nearer than the scarce NGA nodes.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 20-Jul-18 04:41:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
nope not the same as leasehold ronski wink

with leasehold you own for a fixed period of time, with FTTPoD you never own it.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 20-Jul-18 04:51:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
this makes "some" sense at least to me and it is something I would accept.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Fri 20-Jul-18 11:29:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Or it's a bit like paying to get electricity lines, water pipes and gas pipes routed to a new build house.

Precisely. I needed to have 3-phase installed at our farm. We already had single phase, but I had to pay handsomely to have the infrastructure (or what was deemed to be my share of) principally the pole top transformer upgraded and new feeder cable installed into my meter box. I’ll never own that infrastructure or lease it for that matter.

Anyhow we are used to fairly outrageous infrastructure costs, especially when we know how much it really costs to dig a trench and lay some duct.

It’s just too bad there’s no such concept as contestible and non-contesible work when it comes to laying in fibre as there is with electric supply smile
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Fri 20-Jul-18 13:47:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
I don't think build costs are transferable between CPs for obvious reasons. However I don't see why you can't have multiple quotes. Probably worth giving FluidOne a call and if they can confirm 100% they don't have a surcharge for your exchange area then you could potentially save > £800 pa even if you were to lose the £250 survey fee by cancelling your Cerberus order. I think Fluidone's monthly service charges are ~ £100 but you would need to check with them.

Called them, but as we are considered "Off Net" in FluidOne speak, the monthly FTTPoD service charges are way more than Cerberus, even taking into account the Market A surcharge that Cerberus are proposing (at this point in time).
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(experienced) Sat 21-Jul-18 02:27:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: jamescompton] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jamescompton:
I'm just wondering what BT/Openreach don't know about there own infrastructure that would lead to such an answer.


Because they haven't updated their infrastructure mapping to your property, because it hasn't yet been necessary. They possibly haven't had the need to do it because no significant fault has been reported, i.e. no re-routing and so no re-mapping recorded, for your PSTN line(s).

I've posted here before about having a family member who then worked for what was then "BT Openreach" in 2012 look up BTOR's mapping of my line (not any data about broadband speeds, or a live line test - these were literally scans of paper routes, wth PCPs, DPs, etc. marked); and it hadn't got any of this entire estate mapped, it lust showed one line (possibly two) to a mill which was demolished in the late 80s. This estate was build during 1998 and 1999.

I'm not saying that I know this is the case for you, of course, it's just an example of how someone could have "taken a quick look" at some stupidly outdated scanned papers. No new PCP was required for the 3 roads which make up what I'm calling "my estate" - it simply came off an older one, and when FTTC came along in 2012 (so the same year the BTOR engineer looked at the mapping for my line) no updated mapping was there, even when some of my neighbours actually had FTTC.

I assume that since 2012, they've probably had to update their records, and I'm not accusing OR of anything that they're not responsible for. I'm also not saying that that my family member wasn't able to dig deeper, we were essentially just laughing at how their most recent mapping (again, NOT line tests, etc.) for where I lived must have been from the very early 1980s at best.

My point after all this rambling, I suppose, is that mapping for theoretical builds does not exist, and even mapping for recent-ish builds might not exist either. The ability to test lines in real-world time and assist with either voice or data problems which have been raised by ISPs potentially has nothing to do with any mapping. That's why they physically write in yellow marker on recently installed fibre splitter/AG nodes, and mark problems or incomplete/planned routing with those yellow tags and Axxxx codes indicating what sort of issue it is.

So the FTTPoD provider's Email reply of

This essentially means that their records are not good enough to be able to determine any costs using a desktop survey


Is the short and extremely accurate answer, I think.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Sat 21-Jul-18 02:30:37)

Standard User Robin1989
(newbie) Sun 22-Jul-18 21:23:15
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Has anyone from the £39k team gone for a full quote and got there price back?
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Mon 23-Jul-18 19:06:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
I don't think build costs are transferable between CPs for obvious reasons. However I don't see why you can't have multiple quotes. Probably worth giving FluidOne a call and if they can confirm 100% they don't have a surcharge for your exchange area then you could potentially save > £800 pa even if you were to lose the £250 survey fee by cancelling your Cerberus order. I think Fluidone's monthly service charges are ~ £100 but you would need to check with them.

Called them, but as we are considered "Off Net" in FluidOne speak, the monthly FTTPoD service charges are way more than Cerberus, even taking into account the Market A surcharge that Cerberus are proposing (at this point in time).

Just checked and my exchange is now definitely in the list for Market B in the draft WBA Statement, which according to Ofcom should be published as final this month.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018...

Therefore once this document is published in finality I cannot see how Cerberus can levy the Market A Surcharge. But I'll keep my gob shut until I get the final build cost back.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Jul-18 19:22:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Therefore once this document is published in finality I cannot see how Cerberus can levy the Market A Surcharge. But I'll keep my gob shut until I get the final build cost back.


I would have thought the monthly price shown in the Cerberus agreement/contract you signed is the price you pay even if your exchange classification changes later on. You should get clarification from Cerberus.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 23-Jul-18 19:59:38)

Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Mon 23-Jul-18 20:59:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Therefore once this document is published in finality I cannot see how Cerberus can levy the Market A Surcharge. But I'll keep my gob shut until I get the final build cost back.


I would have thought the monthly price shown in the Cerberus agreement/contract you signed is the price you pay even if your exchange classification changes later on. You should get clarification from Cerberus.


Just checked the T&Cs. I need to give them notice of the change in Market classification of the exchange and they need to corroborate, as per 9.8.3.

9.8. Cerberus may levy a surcharge on the service rental for orders in Market A areas. Such surcharges shall be stated at the point of order and will apply from the activation date of the Service until it ceases subject to 9.8.3, or is replaced by a new service, at which point, Cerberus may vary the surcharge.
9.8.1 Market A surcharges may be levied on new orders, migrations, regrades and upgrade orders.
9.8.2 Cerberus shall not levy Market A surcharges on the any pre-existing Services where the surcharge was not stated at the time of the Order.
9.8.3 If, after activation, the Customer reports to Cerberus that the Ofcom definition of the location has changed from Market A to Market B, and this is corroborated by Cerberus, then any surcharge as set out in 9.8 shall no longer be payable, and any invoicing in advance for the surcharge beyond the date that the Customer reports the change of Market shall be credited by Cerberus to the Customer.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Jul-18 21:32:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Fair do's, seems clear enough smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User jamescompton
(newbie) Thu 26-Jul-18 22:36:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
It's interesting wondering what kind of data they hold in their infrastructure DB. I actually had a new line run from a different pole at the start of 2017 due to a fault with the original line (which dates way back, when I moved in I still had boxes on the wall to do with line sharing etc.) so thought maybe they kept better track of such things. The area I'm in was down for FTTP for 2+ years on the various checkers and emails with Openreach up until June/July 2017 when it changed to just being In-Scope and finally just having an FTTC cabinet installed with little warning in December. I actually get 40+ down and 9+ up which is a great improvement over the 3 down, less than 1 up I did have but would happily pay more for a greater speed...though possibly not 10k+!! I'm wondering if they've installed most of the FTTP infrastructure, switched to FTTC in order to help meet targets and are just waiting to see if the Welsh government are willing to throw more money at them in the successor to the Superfast Cymru programme to provide FTTP when they've already done most of the work? Perhaps I'm too cynical smile
Standard User rogerh
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-18 13:59:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Therefore once this document is published in finality I cannot see how Cerberus can levy the Market A Surcharge. But I'll keep my gob shut until I get the final build cost back.


I would have thought the monthly price shown in the Cerberus agreement/contract you signed is the price you pay even if your exchange classification changes later on. You should get clarification from Cerberus.


Just checked the T&Cs. I need to give them notice of the change in Market classification of the exchange and they need to corroborate, as per 9.8.3.

9.8. Cerberus may levy a surcharge on the service rental for orders in Market A areas. Such surcharges shall be stated at the point of order and will apply from the activation date of the Service until it ceases subject to 9.8.3, or is replaced by a new service, at which point, Cerberus may vary the surcharge.
9.8.1 Market A surcharges may be levied on new orders, migrations, regrades and upgrade orders.
9.8.2 Cerberus shall not levy Market A surcharges on the any pre-existing Services where the surcharge was not stated at the time of the Order.
9.8.3 If, after activation, the Customer reports to Cerberus that the Ofcom definition of the location has changed from Market A to Market B, and this is corroborated by Cerberus, then any surcharge as set out in 9.8 shall no longer be payable, and any invoicing in advance for the surcharge beyond the date that the Customer reports the change of Market shall be credited by Cerberus to the Customer.


I am in a similar position, except that my exchange, WNCER, seems to be remaining in Market A according to the draft Ofcom document. Parenthetically, Cerberus sales have talked of Ofcom planning to reduce Market A to only 0.7% of exchanges, which certainly is not what the draft document appears to do. More like 15%. I am all for Cerberus making a profit, as they are performing a valuable service and I hope to use them long term, though hopefully not at £195 a month, but where does the Market A surcharge come from? It doesn't appear in the Openreach price list AFAICS. I have just received my survey report and quote, and it will be hard to negotiate with the four neighbours involved if I can't tell them whether they are paying about £2800 or about £1440 rental in the first year (VAT inclusive figures).


My results, where the nearest aggregation node (unless they have battery powered ones up poles) is likely more than 3km away are quite pleasing otherwise:

Desktop survey £27,700.

Survey Quote (less £700) £12,500

I suspect they may have quoted lower as they will be needing to do some major copper cable repairs along the same route pretty soon. (Temporary joints in poly bags for the last year!)
Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Fri 27-Jul-18 19:44:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rogerh] [link to this post]
 
I am in a similar position, except that my exchange, WNCER, seems to be remaining in Market A according to the draft Ofcom document. Parenthetically, Cerberus sales have talked of Ofcom planning to reduce Market A to only 0.7% of exchanges, which certainly is not what the draft document appears to do. More like 15%.


The remedies are applied to BT Wholesale, not Openreach.
The costs involved (particularly bandwidth) are much, much greater in market A.

it will be falling to 0.9% of premises (not exchanges), but the important distinction is that GEA services (FTTC, FTTP) will have their market determined based on your handover exchange, not the local exchange. Copper (ADSL) will still be subject to the serving exchange.

WNCER is staying in Market A, but it's handover node is WNMAC which will be entering Market B, and hence you would not be subject to Market A remedies for your FTTP connection.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User gt94sss2
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 27-Jul-18 20:06:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
9.8.3 If, after activation, the Customer reports to Cerberus that the Ofcom definition of the location has changed from Market A to Market B, and this is corroborated by Cerberus, then any surcharge as set out in 9.8 shall no longer be payable, and any invoicing in advance for the surcharge beyond the date that the Customer reports the change of Market shall be credited by Cerberus to the Customer.


Surprised and disappointed that Cerberus are relying on a customer to tell them that the Ofcom classification has changed - wouldn't have though that would be a fair/legal T&C if a residential contract.
Standard User rogerh
(committed) Fri 27-Jul-18 21:06:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
The remedies are applied to BT Wholesale, not Openreach.
The costs involved (particularly bandwidth) are much, much greater in market A.

it will be falling to 0.9% of premises (not exchanges), but the important distinction is that GEA services (FTTC, FTTP) will have their market determined based on your handover exchange, not the local exchange. Copper (ADSL) will still be subject to the serving exchange.

WNCER is staying in Market A, but it's handover node is WNMAC which will be entering Market B, and hence you would not be subject to Market A remedies for your FTTP connection.


Thanks, that is enormously helpful. Perhaps it explains the rather vague word "location" in the Cerberus Ts & Cs quoted above. Anyway it at least makes sense to me now.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 29-Jul-18 14:38:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Anth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anth:
Finally just had the quote from Cerebrus. And it says

"The estimated build charge was £20,600 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £14,650 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and the £700.00 deduction per FTTPoD order."

So with VAT that works out at £17,580 final cost after the full survey for what was a Band B property less than 400m from the AgNode in a housing estate.

Way out of my available price range. And this it seems is it for me in terms of FTTP on demand.


That's stupid - all that to get 330/30 when if you can get VM they do this already for peanuts!

I get the value of FTTP and the increase in house value etc - but still.

I am building 2 houses and they will both have 1Gbps FTTP but I am not sure yet if Wireless will be the best way or via BT

I can also be the host of the base station with a nice yearly income
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Mon 30-Jul-18 13:51:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Mine just got updated:

Dear Customer

Thank you for your recent request for a desk survey price for FTTP on Demand.

Due to an Openreach systems issue, your request for an FTTP on Demand desk survey returned an inaccurate figure or incorrectly advised that an onsite survey was required instead of issuing an estimate.

The systems issue has been resolved and we have re-run your query. The revised estimate of the charges is detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £17,700.00 ex VAT
The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 14
The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs. You will receive a discount of £700.00 ex VAT from this figure for each linked order that is served by your build. Linked orders may be submitted to Cerberus Networks at the customer’s own risk. If one order is cancelled this will cancel all the linked orders so you must find a way for all parties to work together to share any costs.

Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. There are a number of factors that may affect the final costs. These would be only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

To proceed with an order, you must pay the £250.00 ex VAT survey charge. The survey will normally take place within 3 weeks. After the survey, you will have 28 days to accept or reject the confirmed build charge. This will be presented as Excess Construction Charges (ECCs). If you do not accept the ECCs and wish to cancel the order, the survey charge will stand. If you decide to proceed with the order, the survey charge will be deducted from the total ECC figure.

If you wish to proceed to an order for FTTPoD, please Click here.

If you have any questions about the FTTPoD service please contact the sales team on 0345 257 1333 or at [email protected]

Please accept our apologies for any confusion caused. Thanks again for your interest in this service.

Cerberus Networks


That's quite a few premises passed!
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Wed 01-Aug-18 14:14:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
The question is, are Cerberus being charged extra by BT Wholesale for certain FTTP/FTTPoD lines? If not, then it seems like a unfair surcharge and one that Ofcom may take an interest in.


In essence yes, The effect essentially is that Wholesale are not allowed to provide us competitive pricing in Market A.
The cost overhead is significant.

As was mentioned above, the BMCR draft is out which will greatly reduce the size of Market A and in the case of GEA, use the head-end exchange's market instead. (There are still some head-ends in market A, so this wont go away for everyone).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statement...


Just a note to all that may be affected by Market A price surcharges - Ofcom have now published the final Statement on Wholesale Broadband Access - Market Review.

The list of exchanges defined as belonging to Market A or Market B are listed in Annex 1 (Appendix 1 and 2):

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032...
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 01-Aug-18 14:19:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
.... and kinda odd, as the largest CBT/manifolds only serve 12 customers.

I guess it’s based on 14 properties currently served by your copper DP

Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Wed 01-Aug-18 14:37:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
The question is, are Cerberus being charged extra by BT Wholesale for certain FTTP/FTTPoD lines? If not, then it seems like a unfair surcharge and one that Ofcom may take an interest in.


In essence yes, The effect essentially is that Wholesale are not allowed to provide us competitive pricing in Market A.
The cost overhead is significant.

As was mentioned above, the BMCR draft is out which will greatly reduce the size of Market A and in the case of GEA, use the head-end exchange's market instead. (There are still some head-ends in market A, so this wont go away for everyone).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statement...


Just a note to all that may be affected by Market A price surcharges - Ofcom have now published the final Statement on Wholesale Broadband Access - Market Review.

The list of exchanges defined as belonging to Market A or Market B are listed in Annex 1 (Appendix 1 and 2):

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032...


Their handover node is still changing to Market B and the GEA clause is still in the final statement, so once Wholesale implement these then it's up to the SP to decide what if any changes they make.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Wed 01-Aug-18 14:43:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


In essence yes, The effect essentially is that Wholesale are not allowed to provide us competitive pricing in Market A.
The cost overhead is significant.

As was mentioned above, the BMCR draft is out which will greatly reduce the size of Market A and in the case of GEA, use the head-end exchange's market instead. (There are still some head-ends in market A, so this wont go away for everyone).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statement...


Just a note to all that may be affected by Market A price surcharges - Ofcom have now published the final Statement on Wholesale Broadband Access - Market Review.

The list of exchanges defined as belonging to Market A or Market B are listed in Annex 1 (Appendix 1 and 2):

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032...


Their handover node is still changing to Market B and the GEA clause is still in the final statement, so once Wholesale implement these then it's up to the SP to decide what if any changes they make.


Will see what Cerberus have to say about it. Their T&Cs talk about Market 'area' which is not specifically clear whether its related to local exchange or GEA head end exchange. My local exchange is clearly now in Market B.

How would a 'ordinary' user like myself find out what my GEA head end exchange is anyhow?
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 01-Aug-18 18:29:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
It's much more like that your PSTN exchange is Market A and the Head-End Market B than the other way around.
Head-End/Parent exchanges are usually larger exchanges.

If you post your local PSTN exchange here then someone will be happy to tell you what your Fibre Head-End exchange is.

edit: I'll clarify my point above. While it's more likely smaller local pstn exchanges are the "child" exchanges and the larger exchange the "parent" (aka fibre head-end) I know a couple areas where the opposite it the case.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 01-Aug-18 18:35:29)

Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Wed 01-Aug-18 18:55:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
It's much more like that your PSTN exchange is Market A and the Head-End Market B than the other way around.
Head-End/Parent exchanges are usually larger exchanges.

If you post your local PSTN exchange here then someone will be happy to tell you what your Fibre Head-End exchange is.

edit: I'll clarify my point above. While it's more likely smaller local pstn exchanges are the "child" exchanges and the larger exchange the "parent" (aka fibre head-end) I know a couple areas where the opposite it the case.

EAWLD is my local exchange. Can anyone with access to the relevant database tell my what the parent GEA Head-end exchange is please?
Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Wed 01-Aug-18 22:00:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
EAWLD is my local exchange. Can anyone with access to the relevant database tell my what the parent GEA Head-end exchange is please?


Check your PMs smile

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User rogerh
(committed) Thu 02-Aug-18 19:18:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by Blmcg:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


In essence yes, The effect essentially is that Wholesale are not allowed to provide us competitive pricing in Market A.
The cost overhead is significant.

As was mentioned above, the BMCR draft is out which will greatly reduce the size of Market A and in the case of GEA, use the head-end exchange's market instead. (There are still some head-ends in market A, so this wont go away for everyone).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statement...


Just a note to all that may be affected by Market A price surcharges - Ofcom have now published the final Statement on Wholesale Broadband Access - Market Review.

The list of exchanges defined as belonging to Market A or Market B are listed in Annex 1 (Appendix 1 and 2):

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032...


Their handover node is still changing to Market B and the GEA clause is still in the final statement, so once Wholesale implement these then it's up to the SP to decide what if any changes they make.


The document appears to say it is effective immediately. But it refers to a "Directive" so maybe this is a separate document. Does anyone know when BT Wholesale have to adopt the new pricing structure? It is one thing to know the Market A surcharge will probably not apply: it is quite another to get sceptical neighbours to sign up to an extra £1500 pound bill they will "probably" not have to pay!
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Sun 05-Aug-18 19:44:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rogerh] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerh:
The document appears to say it is effective immediately. But it refers to a "Directive" so maybe this is a separate document. Does anyone know when BT Wholesale have to adopt the new pricing structure? It is one thing to know the Market A surcharge will probably not apply: it is quite another to get sceptical neighbours to sign up to an extra £1500 pound bill they will "probably" not have to pay!

The document had been sent to the European Commission for comment, last month. Having received those comments (in a letter published with the final statement) it is now published as the Final Statement.

For me the effective date is immediate - in the defined terms of the T&Cs with Cerberus states that Market A and Market B are as defined by Ofcom:

"
1.1.14 “Market A” shall mean the areas defined by Ofcom as Market A;
1.1.15 “Market B” shall mean the areas defined by Ofcom as Market B;
"

I have served Cerberus notice of the fact that my immediate serving exchange is now Market B (and indeed the Head-End Exchange is also Market B).

So in my particular order situation with Cerberus I see there is no dependency on BT Wholesale to adopt any revised pricing structures.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 07-Aug-18 12:38:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Haha - no just NO!

Estimated Build Cost: £36,100.00 ex VAT <=== WHAAAAAT!!!!!???

uck a duck!

Edited by 23Prince (Tue 07-Aug-18 12:38:47)

Standard User lincsat
(learned) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:35:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
Estimated Build Cost: £3,900.00 ex VAT, Final price: £2455.15
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:57:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
Nice result there, can you use a voucher?

Standard User lincsat
(learned) Tue 21-Aug-18 16:53:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
Nice result there, can you use a voucher?


Yes, already approved. Shame I can't use the extra for the first 6 Months line rental.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Aug-18 10:09:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
A very nice result then, good to hear of a nice result like this, hope the build goes well.

Standard User xtremedetailz
(newbie) Thu 23-Aug-18 13:36:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Well ive just had my costs back.

The estimated build charge was £8,800 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £2,151.73 + VAT
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 23-Aug-18 15:06:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: xtremedetailz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by xtremedetailz:
Well ive just had my costs back.

The estimated build charge was £8,800 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £2,151.73 + VAT


Excellent news - 75.5% less than the original estimate! I note the one which started this thread went £13,600.00 -> £3,342.67, and interestingly that works out at exactly the same percentage.

Not everybody gets this (mine was 50%) but it seems the desktop quotes really are worst-case figures.
Standard User xtremedetailz
(newbie) Thu 23-Aug-18 17:20:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Yeah how odd is that regarding the percentage rates ?
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 23-Aug-18 17:24:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I have summarised the forum results so far.

It's still a small sample (7 results) and a very wide spread, but the median reduction in price after survey is 54%.
Standard User brookheather
(learned) Thu 23-Aug-18 17:49:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I have decided to go for the survey given some of the price reductions posted on this thread - my current quote is 7100+vat so I'm hoping for something nearer 3000 and will be using the voucher scheme. There seems to be a five week wait currently for the survey.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 23-Aug-18 22:00:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brookheather:
There seems to be a five week wait currently for the survey.


There's also a 20 order limit per month for FTTPod.
If I were able to claim £3k and the install fee was in that ballpark I'd be tempted.

I'm sure I read they were going to increase the monthly limit to 100 per month in 2019.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 24-Aug-18 01:04:07
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I've sent a request to Cerberus Networks for a desktop survey quote, says lead time is up to two weeks so I don't imagine I'll know what my worst case estimated charge is for a while. After I get a desktop survey quote then I'll ask for an actual survey to be done and post the results. The reason I'm considering FTTPoD is because I'm getting tired of DLM and one of my lines having an intermittent fault which isn't enough to get an engineer yet but is enough to have not too long ago a fairly heavy banding and INP 8/delay 16ms on the downstream.
Standard User boxst
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Aug-18 10:23:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for that. I will take the plunge and hope my £18,600 build goes to at least half. I could probably in some bizarre way justify that as being part of the moving to a new house cost.

Thanks,

Steve
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 24-Aug-18 11:54:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
Mine just got updated:


Up or down?

Based on that quote, are you going ahead with the full survey?
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Fri 24-Aug-18 12:19:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
Mine just got updated:


Up or down?

Based on that quote, are you going ahead with the full survey?


Previously they said they could not give a quote.

I was hoping for a figure more like £5-6k. Not going ahead with a full quote.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Sun 26-Aug-18 20:09:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
I'm sure I read they were going to increase the monthly limit to 100 per month in 2019.


Yes it's published here:

Projected capacity for April 2019 to March 2020:
We are reviewing our projected capacity for both single and multiple project orders for the 2019/20 financial year and starting from Q1 (April to June 2019) we currently expect to be able to support 100 industry-wide FoD orders per calendar month.

We may need to apportion this capacity for single orders and multiple order projects to ensure that we can support CPs selling either type and we will advise further on this in due course. We also hope to be able to offer more capacity later in 2019/20 and will advise further when we can confirm our operational ability to manage additional demand.
Standard User 1nfern0
(newbie) Tue 28-Aug-18 00:37:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
My initial desktop quote came back as £8,000
As I'll be eligible for the voucher scheme I decided to go ahead with the full survey.
There does appear to be quite a wait, I placed the order on the 03/07 and I'm still waiting for the survey to be conducted. Cerberus have just notified that Openreach have escalated with the surveyors so hopefully some good news soon. A 50% reduction would be incredible but I'm not holding my breath yet.

G
Standard User rman
(newbie) Tue 28-Aug-18 08:57:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
I've only recently found out about the £3k voucher scheme, and i too am eligible!

I previously had a desktop quote from Cerebus for £2750 + VAT, does anyone know how the voucher works? Will i automatically get the full £3,000?

I guess the question im really asking is could I get an install completed for free or next to nothing?
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 28-Aug-18 09:33:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
I've only recently found out about the £3k voucher scheme, and i too am eligible!

I previously had a desktop quote from Cerebus for £2750 + VAT, does anyone know how the voucher works? Will i automatically get the full £3,000?


As I understand it: if you're eligible for the voucher, and the final install price is £3K or less, the install will be entirely paid for. You can't do anything with the remainder, and the voucher can't be used to pay VAT - but that's not a problem if you're VAT registered. The full terms and conditions are at https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/wp-content/upl...

I expect you'll still have to pay the £250+VAT survey fee to get a binding quote before you can proceed. Check with Cerberus whether this can be recovered from the voucher on completion, although the T&Cs suggest it can - see 2(iv).

Since the final build price is likely to be well under £3K, if you have some neighbours who are keen to get connected you could consider submitting a joint order. They may be eligible for their own £500 vouchers as part of a joint build. https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/for-residents/

A few immediate neighbours who are on the same DP as you may get fibre enabled as part of your own build anyway, but a combined order could include neighbours a bit further away. It would make better use of the spare voucher money, but adds complexity and risk.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 28-Aug-18 11:50:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Regarding the voucher scheme, does anyone know if I'd be eligible under the following:
- I work from home but own a limited company with an office address that's not the same as where I work from, also has a VAT number

I'd like to be able to claim it, but I'm not sure if I'd be eligible and that's also assuming once I know the desktop quote and actual quote whether I go ahead. From the terms and conditions of the voucher scheme I would assume that I'd have to have the business office address the same as my home address in order to be eligible, but to be honest I find it a little confusing so I may well be wrong.

Additionally has anyone had any experiences with Amvia?

Edited by Ixel (Tue 28-Aug-18 12:46:55)

Standard User xtremedetailz
(newbie) Tue 28-Aug-18 19:23:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Well i have just had some great news, i qualified for the GVS and all i had to pay was the VAT.

The confirmed build charge is £2,151.73 + VAT that was around £430 ish plus the £300 survey has cost me in total £730 inc VAT for FTTP install.

Gotta be happy with that.

Wonder how long it will take to get installed now.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 28-Aug-18 19:31:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Regarding the voucher scheme, does anyone know if I'd be eligible under the following:
- I work from home but own a limited company with an office address that's not the same as where I work from, also has a VAT number


The criterion is that you "trade" from the address. If your VAT registration and bank statements show your home address, that should be sufficient evidence

In reply to a post by Ixel:
Additionally has anyone had any experiences with Amvia?


They were very pleasant, but couldn't even get my address right when I asked them to quote. They are resellers of Cerberus.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 28-Aug-18 19:44:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: xtremedetailz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by xtremedetailz:
Wonder how long it will take to get installed now.


If you're lucky, you may have it installed by the end of the year provided its a straight forward build and subject to manpower/materials availability. Otherwise expect completion by the Summer of 2019.

I had mine installed in ~ 4 months in 2017 but this was a relatively easy build for Openreach as the U/G ducts from the agg node to my home were clear due to being fairly new.

Welcome to the FTTPoD club smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 28-Aug-18 19:45:43)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 28-Aug-18 20:51:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
The criterion is that you "trade" from the address. If your VAT registration and bank statements show your home address, that should be sufficient evidence


That could be an unfortunate setback then. I can only confirm that I'm both a shareholder and director of my company, bank statements from the company's bank account and VAT registration won't show my home address but instead the registered address of the company. Oh well, only 3000 pounds I guess lol.

In reply to a post by candlerb:
They were very pleasant, but couldn't even get my address right when I asked them to quote. They are resellers of Cerberus.


I see, I'll bear that in mind then as if FTTPoD ends up costing a huge amount to install I'm considering a leased line instead (I've already had some quotes, but ECC's are unknown until I make an order which then gets a survey done). A salesman from Amvia claims that they can offer me a 100 megabit leased line for sub 300 pounds per month (excluding VAT of course) which beats my quotes so far from CIX/ICUK and LineBroker.

---

Thanks!

Edited by Ixel (Tue 28-Aug-18 20:51:53)

Standard User Retron
(newbie) Wed 29-Aug-18 18:22:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
An interesting update (well, I think so anyway tongue) from this FTTPoD order:

* As the order has progressed, it turns out that three ducts were blocked, requiring "civils" (presumably roadworks). Thankfully as the confirmed price was just that, confirmed, it means Openreach foot the bill. Just as well, as I'd bet that'd cost a small fortune.
* While I was at work last week, several engineers came to rig up the overhead cabling. They didn't stick the splitter on the nearest pole, rather on the one a bit further along the street. According to a retired neighbour who chatted with them, they were putting in enough to hook up the whole street if needed (I suspect it's not quite that many, even though there are only 12 houses or so on the street!) Three poles now have spools of fibre-optic cable hanging from them, although not the nearest pole to me!

The fibre splitter doesn't have any visible ports on it, it's just a big cylinder thing with a thick cable going in top and bottom. I was expecting to see one of those:

http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

Anyway, I found it interesting that they're putting in more than is required. It makes sense, but I wonder whether anyone else who's interested will have to pay FTTPoD or just FTTP prices! (And by all accounts, there are several who are interested - word has got around it's "proper" fibre-optic cabling.) The engineer seemed to think they'd have to pay the full FTTPoD prices, as the neighbour asked them. We'll see soon enough, anyway.

Edited by Retron (Wed 29-Aug-18 18:26:07)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Aug-18 18:49:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
I wonder whether anyone else who's interested will have to pay FTTPoD or just FTTP prices! (And by all accounts, there are several who are interested - word has got around it's "proper" fibre-optic cabling.) The engineer seemed to think they'd have to pay the full FTTPoD prices, as the neighbour asked them. We'll see soon enough, anyway.


Those properties who will be served by the same fibre DP as you, will be able to order FTTP at native FTTP prices once your FTTPoD service goes live. I hope your neighbours appreciate this wink

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 29-Aug-18 18:49:56)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Aug-18 18:56:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
The item you linked to in the photo is a CBT (connectorised block terminal) from this the connectorised fibre lead ins are run, (normally to a max length of 150m)

The tails from the CBT’s will run back to a node, either a DP node, or straight to the splitter.

Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 29-Aug-18 19:12:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
They very much don't need to pay.
Your considerable chunk of cash spent will benefit some (if not all) of your neighbours.
Standard User olicuk
(member) Wed 29-Aug-18 21:30:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
You'd think with "Fibre First" if there was a community that needed 2xDPs and they were bringing in fibre and installing one, they'd do both (at their cost for the 2nd) if it was just one extra CBT needed and the costs per property ended up below a certain threshold. But who knows how well their processes and common sense approach has developed.

Even if they don't install a 2nd DP now and it is needed for some properties, whilst they wouldnt get native FTTP, their FTTPoD charge is likely to be significantly less given the main fibre is already routed and the splitter installed locally.... depending on local geography, cable runs and so on. Wheher they would know that and ever go to the lengths to order FTTPoD is another thing.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Thu 30-Aug-18 07:16:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The item you linked to in the photo is a CBT (connectorised block terminal) from this the connectorised fibre lead ins are run, (normally to a max length of 150m)

The tails from the CBT’s will run back to a node, either a DP node, or straight to the splitter.

Thank you - that'd explain why they put it a couple of poles away from me, then, as it's effectively in the middle of the length of the road (which is only 130m in length). In that case they really have enabled most of the street.

The neighbour over the road from me is very interested in getting FTTP, now he knows it's coming. He still thinks it'd cost thousands, though, and thus be out of reach for him, based on what the engineer was saying. Sounds like he - and the others - are in for a nice surprise in a few weeks!
Standard User shabbaranks
(newbie) Thu 30-Aug-18 08:20:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Looking to get a quote myself - what providers are you all contacting for a quote as I didn't think this was direct with BT? Also would it be worth adding a rough distance to the node per users quote to see how the quotes relate to the run lengths?
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 30-Aug-18 08:51:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: shabbaranks] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shabbaranks:
Looking to get a quote myself - what providers are you all contacting for a quote as I didn't think this was direct with BT?


The service providers I know that offer FTTPoD currently are Cerberus and FluidOne, plus their second-tier resellers (e.g. Amvia resell Cerberus). Cerberus quote page is here: https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...

There was some talk of BT (business or retail) launching an FTTPoD service at some point. This might be related to OpenReach's planned increased in FTTPoD delivery capacity from 20 to 100 installs per month, nationwide, from April next year.

In reply to a post by shabbaranks:
Also would it be worth adding a rough distance to the node per users quote to see how the quotes relate to the run lengths?


Not really. The most relevant factor to cost is the distance to the Fibre Aggregation Node, but the locations of these are not published - even the service providers can't find out where they are. You might be able to find out informally if you talk nicely to the engineer doing your survey or installation.

People who got quotes on the old FTTPoD system, before Feb 2018, got a "band" indication of the rough distance to the fibre aggregation node - but you don't get that any more.

You can find out the location of the Distribution Point which serves your property, but that's normally somewhere right outside. The run from the DP to your property is installed when you activate FTTP, for a flat charge to the service provider.
Standard User Garlic
(learned) Thu 30-Aug-18 10:00:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
They very much don't need to pay.
Your considerable chunk of cash spent will benefit some (if not all) of your neighbours.


Seems a bit harsh. Might be nice if you got a credit back if any1 else signs up in the next year on the cable you 'paid' for.

-----------
FTTP 55/10
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 30-Aug-18 10:46:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
An allowance is made in the quote and final price for those available to order FTTP at normal prices

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Garlic
(learned) Thu 30-Aug-18 10:52:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
An allowance is made in the quote and final price for those available to order FTTP at normal prices


If you mean the properties passed then I know. I was thinking more on the takeup (ORs passed allowance must be pretty conservative). Rather as with BDUK you get clawback! If you're whole street signed up after your FTTPoD!

-----------
FTTP 80/20

Edited by Garlic (Thu 30-Aug-18 10:57:21)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 30-Aug-18 11:19:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Garlic] [link to this post]
 
With BDUK they pay for lines "passed" and get money back if a higher percentage of people than predicted take up service.

With FTTPoD you get a discount for lines "passed" on the assumption that some will take up service.

So BDUK are paying for all lines. You are paying for yours and getting a discount because they might make money out of others. The FTTPoD model is generally much simpler to administer and moves the risk/reward to BT whereas with BDUK the risk/reward is with the Local Authority.
Standard User LeeEng
(newbie) Thu 30-Aug-18 12:04:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Another one to add to the mix, possibly confirming that Openreach use a random number generator for the initial estimates.

Estimated Build Cost: £34,000.00 ex VAT

The confirmed build charge is £2,216.05 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey charge and a £700.00 deduction for your FTTPoD order.

We were confident we have a node next to our building which is why we went ahead with the survey.No civils involved as we have a duct for our copper.

Phil
Standard User Garlic
(learned) Thu 30-Aug-18 14:16:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: LeeEng] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by LeeEng:
Another one to add to the mix, possibly confirming that Openreach use a random number generator for the initial estimates.


Early on I assumed those silly numbers were as much a demand suppressor when they didn't have the engineers to do the work but now they seem to be moving to a wider FTTP rollout that ought to change...doesn't mean it will of course.

-----------
FTTP 80/20
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Mon 03-Sep-18 12:23:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
If I recall you're taking notes of what the FTTPoD estimates are versus actual survey? If so then I'm just about to go ahead with an actual survey but my desktop quote is as follows smile.

Estimated Build Cost: £6,500.00 ex VAT
The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 20


I'm hoping it won't end up being much more than 2k to 3k, especially as there's native FTTP served not far from me (about two or so streets away I guess).

Edited by Ixel (Mon 03-Sep-18 12:24:07)

Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 10-Sep-18 11:58:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Just got a desktop estimate of £12,300.00 ex VAT. I'll update after the survey with the confirmed quote. 4 properties passed which tallies with what I think I know about the current copper DP (4 houses including ours).

Mike

Edited by abat (Mon 10-Sep-18 20:29:34)

Standard User craski
(committed) Mon 10-Sep-18 15:27:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
If people knew or had been able to glean what the distance is to their serving aggregation node, it would be really interesting to cross reference the post survey quoted cost to the costs in the old distance banding method.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
IDNET ADSL BQM
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Mon 10-Sep-18 20:02:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Fed up with my copper line, I put in for a desktop quote with Cerberus over the weekend.

Fully prepared to put through a full survey if the costs are less than £4000 but I'm guessing that our estimated costs are likely to be far higher.

Edited by Yaz (Mon 10-Sep-18 20:03:48)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 10-Sep-18 20:17:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Quotes so far on this thread (for those who decided to proceed with a survey) are summarised here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFkK1sLBFQjl...

Only one person was lucky enough to get an initial desktop quote under £4K - it was £3.9K - but several have had final quotes below that level.
Standard User Robin1989
(newbie) Tue 11-Sep-18 11:34:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for collating this will definitely be keeping an eye on this as my original desktop quote was £39k so I never proceeded with a full quote as my priorities shifted to becoming energy neutral or positive but if most of the quotes are significantly reduced I may proceed ahead.
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Tue 11-Sep-18 12:41:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: craski] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by craski:
If people knew or had been able to glean what the distance is to their serving aggregation node, it would be really interesting to cross reference the post survey quoted cost to the costs in the old distance banding method.


My Agg node is approx 250m and there is ducting with regular access manholes all the way to the pole outside the property. The surveyor said it would need a "Fibre Cab" down one of the manholes and then the new overhead cable from pole to property.
Standard User Nightglow
(member) Tue 11-Sep-18 12:45:18
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
Wish I knew how close I am to a aggregation node here,shame there no online checker available.

Edited by Nightglow (Tue 11-Sep-18 15:41:32)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 11-Sep-18 16:16:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Nightglow] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Nightglow:
Wish I knew how close I am to a aggregation node here,shame there no online checker available.


Even the service providers can't find out where the aggregation nodes are.

The best you can do today is apply for the free desktop quote, which is zero risk. If you can afford the price quoted, then great. If you can afford half the price quoted, it might still be worth gambling £250+VAT on having a full survey.
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Wed 12-Sep-18 11:44:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Finally some movement on my order. Survey was done this morning. Surveyor confirmed that the Aggregation node is about 800m away at the entrence of the estate. There is ducting all the way down the main road to a DP right outside my drive.
Fingers crossed that the ducting is clear as in theory should be an easy run.
Just need to wait for the final quote to come though but I'm hopeful it'll come under the initial 8k quote.

G
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Wed 12-Sep-18 12:45:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
Finally some movement on my order. Survey was done this morning. Surveyor confirmed that the Aggregation node is about 800m away at the entrence of the estate. There is ducting all the way down the main road to a DP right outside my drive.
Fingers crossed that the ducting is clear as in theory should be an easy run.
Just need to wait for the final quote to come though but I'm hopeful it'll come under the initial 8k quote.

G


When my survey was done, the surveyor didn't check for blocked ducts, he said that OR would pay for clearing any blockages as it was their responsibility
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Wed 12-Sep-18 13:56:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lincsat:
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
Finally some movement on my order. Survey was done this morning. Surveyor confirmed that the Aggregation node is about 800m away at the entrence of the estate. There is ducting all the way down the main road to a DP right outside my drive.
Fingers crossed that the ducting is clear as in theory should be an easy run.
Just need to wait for the final quote to come though but I'm hopeful it'll come under the initial 8k quote.

G


When my survey was done, the surveyor didn't check for blocked ducts, he said that OR would pay for clearing any blockages as it was their responsibility


Ahh, thats encouraging. The Surveyor mentioned he wasn't looking for blockages but I'd assumed it'd get picked up later down the line.

How long did you wait for the final quote to come through after survey?

G
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Wed 12-Sep-18 13:58:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
Ahh, thats encouraging. The Surveyor mentioned he wasn't looking for blockages but I'd assumed it'd get picked up later down the line.

How long did you wait for the final quote to come through after survey?

G


IIRC, just over 2 Weeks
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 12-Sep-18 15:21:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
For me it was about 4 weeks from survey to quote. Someone else said they were waiting for 5.

I can corroborate the information about blockages. I placed my order at end of June. About 5 weeks later I was told that the underground cabling team had found two blocked sections of duct and a buried box that needed to be uncovered.

They raised new jobs to deal with those issues, and I'm currently waiting on those.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Wed 12-Sep-18 19:35:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Quotes so far on this thread (for those who decided to proceed with a survey) are summarised here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFkK1sLBFQjl...

Only one person was lucky enough to get an initial desktop quote under £4K - it was £3.9K - but several have had final quotes below that level.


Thanks for that Candlerb. I will be sure to post my desktop quote in due course.
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-18 08:51:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi all, I thought I would put up my experience so far as I've just had the survey done.

The dektop quote came in at £16,800.00 ex VAT through Cerberus. Due to new build properties accross the road having native FTTP I decided to pay for the survey.

The BT chap turned up yesterday and said according to their records, the ducting which is on my new build estate doesn't exist, which is why I think the desktop quote came in so expensive due to expected civil works. However he said no civil works are required as there is ducting already in place to the AG some 6-800 meters away.

I'll update once I receive the finalised quote.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Thu 13-Sep-18 09:39:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Nightglow] [link to this post]
 
Probably near PCP 30
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-18 10:51:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Probably near PCP 30

PCP 30?
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 13-Sep-18 11:55:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Just had an email from Cerberus Networks to confirm that my order is in a queue and that I'll receive a call from the surveyor to arrange a site visit. I wonder how long that'll take until I receive a call, since I imagine there's a bit of a backlog at the moment.
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-18 12:05:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Just had an email from Cerberus Networks to confirm that my order is in a queue and that I'll receive a call from the surveyor to arrange a site visit. I wonder how long that'll take until I receive a call, since I imagine there's a bit of a backlog at the moment.


I paid for it on the 30th Aug. I got an email a couple of days later saying Cerberus would receive an update from BTO every Tuesday. I emailled at the start of this week asking if there is an update to be told they hadn't heard back from BTO.

Then I got a knock at the door a few hours later and it was an BTO engineer. Luckily I was home. Not sure why there was a breakdown between Cerberus and BTO to be honest but it's done now.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Thu 13-Sep-18 12:43:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
Cabinet 30
Standard User Realalemadrid
(member) Thu 13-Sep-18 13:42:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
@S2KIP Witchunts's reply about PCP30 was for Nightglow, not for you.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-18 14:23:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Just had an email from Cerberus Networks to confirm that my order is in a queue and that I'll receive a call from the surveyor to arrange a site visit. I wonder how long that'll take until I receive a call, since I imagine there's a bit of a backlog at the moment.

Potted timeline....
I signed the order with Cerberus on 9 July.
They accepted the order onto their system on 12 July
I was invoiced on 6 August and my card debited for the survey charge
OpenReach engineered called on 23 August to arrange date for survey
Survey was completed on 3 September
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-18 14:32:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by S2KIP:
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Just had an email from Cerberus Networks to confirm that my order is in a queue and that I'll receive a call from the surveyor to arrange a site visit. I wonder how long that'll take until I receive a call, since I imagine there's a bit of a backlog at the moment.


I paid for it on the 30th Aug. I got an email a couple of days later saying Cerberus would receive an update from BTO every Tuesday. I emailled at the start of this week asking if there is an update to be told they hadn't heard back from BTO.

Then I got a knock at the door a few hours later and it was an BTO engineer. Luckily I was home. Not sure why there was a breakdown between Cerberus and BTO to be honest but it's done now.

Cerberus tell me they get a weekly update from OpenReach on a Thursday. I usually receive some sort of an email update from Cerberus on a Monday. Although their information seems to be somewhat out of date - for example Cerberus were telling me earlier this week that "the survey was delayed". This despite me emailing them a response to their previous update, that the survey was in fact fully completed....

Anyhow I will chase them up again this coming Monday for another update, which incidentally will be 2 weeks from the survey date.

OpenReach engineer has confirmed where the Ag Node for me is and its 2.1 km away. The fibre run is ducted for about 450 metres, from which it then runs overhead via poles to my place.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Sep-18 14:56:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
**NEWSFLASH**

For those who are planning to order or at least want a survey done, get your FTTPoD order in before 20th Sept as Openreach will be suspending/not accepting orders after that date due to "excessive demand". That is according to Uno (sauce).

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 13-Sep-18 14:58:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Wow, that sucks. Does this also mean if I get a survey done I can't go ahead temporarily? I assume it only applies to completely new orders (e.g. not had a survey yet). I'm in a queue at the moment for a survey to be done so hopefully that won't end up being delayed.

Edited by Ixel (Thu 13-Sep-18 15:01:07)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Sep-18 15:06:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Wow, that sucks. Does this also mean if I get a survey done I can't go ahead temporarily? I assume it only applies to completely new orders (e.g. not had a survey yet). I'm in a queue at the moment for a survey to be done so hopefully that won't end up being delayed.


You're probably ok, as you have technically placed an order even though no survey has been carried out yet. This cut off date will apply to new orders I suspect.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 13-Sep-18 15:13:09)

Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Fri 14-Sep-18 01:11:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
The current 20 orders per month limit was for full committed orders after survey. They have been processing many many more desktop quotes.

AIUI they have actually been exceeding their own limit so it's no surprise and nobody can really complain if they have to pause for a bit.

I have no idea if they will count those who have paid for a survey already as having an active order but it almost certainly won't include those still at the desktop quote stage.

It would be rather annoying to have paid for a survey to be told they've temp stopped taking orders. I suppose it depends where they are struggling to keep up and how many are currently waiting for a survey.

I'm sure more info will trickle out. Perhaps Cerberus/Uno/someone else will clarify what stage an order needs to be at by 20th Sep to keep progressing and not get pause for an undetermined period of time.

There's 3 or 4 main stages as I see it:
1. Desktop quote, nothing paid, no commitments.
2. Survey paid for, waiting for survey and/or quote.
3. Survey complete, quote received. order not yet placed.
4. Committed FTTPod order, the big bill paid.

What stage does an order need to be by 20th September?
Standard User Nightglow
(member) Fri 14-Sep-18 08:26:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Cabinet 30


That's not good,as that cabinet is about 3/4 mile from me, at other end of village, I'm currently on Cabinet 39, junction of Down Lane,High Street.

Have put in a Desktop quote out of intrest.

Edited by Nightglow (Fri 14-Sep-18 08:41:26)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 14-Sep-18 08:47:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
There's 3 or 4 main stages as I see it:
1. Desktop quote, nothing paid, no commitments.
2. Survey paid for, waiting for survey and/or quote.
3. Survey complete, quote received. order not yet placed.
4. Committed FTTPod order, the big bill paid.


I thought it was simpler than that: when you pay the £250 you are placing an order. Once the final price comes back, you have 30 days to decide whether to withdraw from the order (losing the £250) or pay the balance to continue to installation. Therefore, I think once they've taken your £250, they are committed to deliver.

Suppose they took your £250 today, did the survey, but then told you they couldn't even start installing until end of 2019. That would be extremely unfair.
ISP Representative GenuineCerberus
(isp) Fri 14-Sep-18 09:09:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Openreach has announced a temporary pause on new FTTP on Demand orders from 20th September to allow them to deal with recent planning and survey delays resulting from higher than anticipated order volumes. Once the backlog has been cleared, they will resume processing new orders. Any orders that have already been placed will not be affected. An order is where a customer has ordered FTTP on Demand and paid for the onsite survey - whether the survey has taken place or not.

Desk survey pricing requests are unaffected by the pause.

At present, we do not expect this pause to have a significant impact on customers looking to place new orders as without the pause, recent delays would have impacted new orders and resulted in extended delivery handling timescales. We will advise further once the current order stack has been reviewed
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 14-Sep-18 10:32:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: GenuineCerberus] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for clearing that up.

Out of sheer curiosity, how many concrete orders (ie proceeding to full build) have Cerberus placed with Openreach since the new pricing came into effect earlier this year?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 14-Sep-18 10:34:06
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Agreed.

In reply to a post by GenuineCerberus:
Openreach has announced a temporary pause on new FTTP on Demand orders from 20th September to allow them to deal with recent planning and survey delays resulting from higher than anticipated order volumes. Once the backlog has been cleared, they will resume processing new orders. Any orders that have already been placed will not be affected. An order is where a customer has ordered FTTP on Demand and paid for the onsite survey - whether the survey has taken place or not.

Desk survey pricing requests are unaffected by the pause.

At present, we do not expect this pause to have a significant impact on customers looking to place new orders as without the pause, recent delays would have impacted new orders and resulted in extended delivery handling timescales. We will advise further once the current order stack has been reviewed


Thanks for clarifying @GenuineCerberus ! That means my survey should continue and if I choose to pay the 'actual quote' then the order should continue, so great smile!
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Sep-18 11:10:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Thanks for clarifying @GenuineCerberus ! That means my survey should continue and if I choose to pay the 'actual quote' then the order should continue, so great smile!


and mine.

Mike
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Fri 14-Sep-18 12:54:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
My survey took around 9 weeks from order.
Standard User CJ18
(newbie) Fri 14-Sep-18 17:11:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
I have a question regarding passed premises.

I've got my desktop quote from Cerberus at £13,900 + VAT, with 4 passed premises. I'm considering getting the survey done in the hope that the initial quote will drop, but I would like to know what the other 4 premises are as I may be able to approach them for linked orders.

Should I do this before ordering my own survey or can I do this after I have the final cost and therefore give my neighbours a more accurate representation of price?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Sep-18 17:46:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: CJ18] [link to this post]
 
Almost certainly, (though not 100% always) they will be the 4 other properties served by your current copper DP

Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Fri 14-Sep-18 19:02:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Candlerb I've had my desktop quote back: £16,100.00 ex VAT
11 properties passed (if 11 = 11 phone line services then this is likely to be 8 as 3 lines at the property including my line).

Not sure if the full survey will bring the end cost close enough to the £4000 mark or not.

With the news of the iminent pause from 20th Sept, I would hazard a guess that a full survey would likely be delayed anyway.

Hmm....
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 14-Sep-18 19:24:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: CJ18] [link to this post]
 
If you want to link orders then they don't necessarily have to be on the same DP. Arguably it's better if they're not.

The reason is: those who are on the same DP will have FTTP available after your install, whether or not they come in with you at the same time. Hence it's only worth their while linking if you refuse to do the install by yourself (or cannot afford to). [^1] [^2]

Those who are on a nearby but different DP won't get service on the back of your order. If they want it, and you do a combined order, it *ought* to be a lot less than two separate FTTPoD orders since it can all be installed at once.

This is speculation on my part as we've not seen any examples of this on the forum. I'd suggest you get a desktop survey covering the specific addresses that are interested, and see how much the price differs.

Notes:

[^1] it also costs less overall without linking, since the other people can take service from a wider range of cheaper providers - e.g. BT, Zen - after the DP is activated.
[^2] it appears that there's a significant degree of risk with linking. The T&Cs say that if any of the linked orders is cancelled, the whole set is cancelled, and you may lose all the money paid so far. So better for you to funnel all the cash through one account.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 14-Sep-18 19:27:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yaz:
Candlerb I've had my desktop quote back: £16,100.00 ex VAT
11 properties passed (if 11 = 11 phone line services then this is likely to be 8 as 3 lines at the property including my line).

Not sure if the full survey will bring the end cost close enough to the £4000 mark or not.


Nothing's impossible but you'd be very lucky. I would say £8K-£10K is the likely range.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Sun 16-Sep-18 01:12:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I would imagine the full quote would be closer to the £10,000 mark than £8,000, either way £8,000 is still not worth the cost for the time being.
Standard User CJ18
(newbie) Tue 18-Sep-18 11:05:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that, I am well aware that linked orders is very unstable ground.

Probably the biggest issue I have is that I'm not convinced there is a huge appetite for FTTP where I live (unless it's installed for free, of course). We get 'superfast' via FTTC but due to our distance from the cabinet speeds are around 20 Mbps - however I suspect for most of my neighbours they don't really notice it and wouldn't want to pay more.

I've gone for the survey and will see what the final price is for installation. I'll then find out the other houses involved and take it from there.

Once I have the price I will of course post it on here for info.
Standard User Nightglow
(member) Wed 19-Sep-18 15:13:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: CJ18] [link to this post]
 
I've just got my desktop quote from Cerberus at £21,000 + VAT, with 4 passed premises.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 19-Sep-18 17:44:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Nightglow] [link to this post]
 
Are you going for full survey? If you didn't get it in today you may unfortunately be caught by the temporary suspension of FTTPoD orders from 20th September.
Standard User rman
(newbie) Wed 19-Sep-18 23:46:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I have an openreach engineer visiting my house tomorrow (September 20th), i placed my order on September 4th and the desktop quote was £7,600.00 ex VAT.

For me it needs to be less than £3000 ex VAT to consider going ahead. All seems to be going through a lot quicker than i expected!

If the price is right i'm going to end up with min 6 months left on my FTTC contract along with FTTP!
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 20-Sep-18 00:24:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Nice, that sounds fast.

I'm waiting for a call from an engineer to arrange a visit. I hope they don't just turn up unexpectedly. I heard from Cerberus Networks last week that I should be expecting a call from the surveyor (an engineer I assume) to arrange a visit, to be reviewed with Cerberus Networks this Friday (or sooner if I get a call, as I need to inform them once I have heard from the surveyor).

Your estimated quote isn't far from my estimated quote.

Edited by Ixel (Thu 20-Sep-18 00:25:19)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 20-Sep-18 06:08:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Openreach surveyors are not engineers.

It is a role they may have once done, but they are no longer ‘on the tools’.

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 20-Sep-18 12:08:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification!
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Thu 20-Sep-18 12:44:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lincsat:
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
Ahh, thats encouraging. The Surveyor mentioned he wasn't looking for blockages but I'd assumed it'd get picked up later down the line.

How long did you wait for the final quote to come through after survey?

G


IIRC, just over 2 Weeks


Does anyone have a view on current timescales for final quote production?

My survey was completed on 3 September, but I'm wondering if/how much the recently announced suspension of new orders from OpenReach is affecting final quote timescales - is it now stretching to a month or much longer?

I'm due to get my weekly update from Cerberus after today.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Sep-18 13:14:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Does anyone have a view on current timescales for final quote production?


It all depends on variables such as workload of Openreach staff, complexity of your install, findings of Openreach Survey etc. Questions which only Openreach can answer...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Fri 21-Sep-18 17:50:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
Does anyone have a view on current timescales for final quote production?


It all depends on variables such as workload of Openreach staff, complexity of your install, findings of Openreach Survey etc. Questions which only Openreach can answer...

Had my update call with Cerberus today, and it looks like they have now received the prices from OpenReach, so I'm expecting an email/call from the account manager early next week with the final build costs.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Mon 24-Sep-18 20:18:15
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Quotes so far on this thread (for those who decided to proceed with a survey) are summarised here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFkK1sLBFQjl...

Only one person was lucky enough to get an initial desktop quote under £4K - it was £3.9K - but several have had final quotes below that level.

OK so confirmed build costs have now come back at £6,450+VAT including reduction for survey and deduction of £850 for premises passed (I guess that must be my nearest neighbour).

So my desktop quote has gone UP by £1,550 - that must be some sort of precedent!

After DCMS voucher and VAT reclaim, the net cost is £3,450
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 25-Sep-18 07:40:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
I got an unexpected call from Openreach yesterday. They are coming to do the survey on Wednesday and wanted to know if I'd be in. Apparently they need to get inside briefly to take a photo of where I want to put the stuff. The guy I spoke to said the inside bit of the survey for residential installs wasn't really important but he ideally needed to get a photo.

Mike
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 25-Sep-18 10:19:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Nice. Hopefully I'll get a phone call this week to arrange a survey visit, unless for some reason they end up deciding that they don't need to enter the house briefly. Otherwise I guess I'll get in contact with Cerberus if I hear nothing after this week to see what's happening (as that'll be two weeks I believe).
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Tue 25-Sep-18 10:28:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
How far are you away from the aggregation node? just waiting for my final quote but curious to see how I compare.
Standard User brookheather
(learned) Tue 25-Sep-18 10:49:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
I ordered 21st August and my update yesterday is that OR are still waiting for a surveyor to be assigned (this is in NW London) - so five weeks have passed so far...
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Tue 25-Sep-18 12:28:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
My latest update:

BT confirmed the survey completed and we are now waiting for planning to confirm costings.
Your next update is on 27/09.


My survey was done on the 11th September.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 25-Sep-18 17:26:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Latest update:
Openreach surveyor called late this afternoon, they will be doing the survey tomorrow morning first thing. Great! I wasn't expecting it to happen this quickly.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Tue 25-Sep-18 22:27:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
How far are you away from the aggregation node? just waiting for my final quote but curious to see how I compare.

1.8 km. Most of that is overhead, pole to pole, with a short section, perhaps around 450 metres ducted.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 26-Sep-18 11:07:24
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Apparently my AG node is 800m away. I would never have guessed where it was and interestingly it appears to be not at a cabinet unless there is a cab on that road I don't know about, I'll check that out sometime this week.

Mike
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Wed 26-Sep-18 11:34:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
My BT surveyor was quite vague about where mine is, he just pointed in the direction of the three FTTC cabinets and said 'over there'. It could be well beyond them for all I know. There is a 3 section long manhole next to them with lots of BT chalk on the floor, I hope it is that as it's about 15-200m away from my house which would keep the installation costs down.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 26-Sep-18 11:40:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
Apparently my AG node is 800m away [.....] it appears to be not at a cabinet


That's because agg nodes are not usually located at FTTC cabinets. A single AN usually serves a few FTTC cabs and will therefore be located somewhere between cabs.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 26-Sep-18 11:49:24)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 26-Sep-18 12:07:36
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
The surveyor team (two guys) I had this morning from Openreach have taken some pictures of where the current FTTC connection terminates at. Both friendly, but couldn't say what the rough distance was to the aggregation node as they said they survey from the house back towards the aggregation node, and the house is the first step in that process or something. Unfortunate but oh well. Fortunately there doesn't appear to be any issues with me wanting the fiber optic cable brought through the back bedroom, where the line comes in, to the front bedroom where the current phone line terminates at. All I need to do on the day is move a wardrobe so they can drill another hole between the two rooms (assuming I go ahead).

Understandably they were impressed and surprised with the server cabinet in my room, enough for one of them to come back twice due to leaving one or two items behind by mistake haha.

Edited by Ixel (Wed 26-Sep-18 12:08:42)

Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Wed 26-Sep-18 13:59:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by 1nfern0:
How far are you away from the aggregation node? just waiting for my final quote but curious to see how I compare.

1.8 km. Most of that is overhead, pole to pole, with a short section, perhaps around 450 metres ducted.


Thanks, not really a bad quote given the distance. Not really comparable to my run which is 800m of ducts
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 26-Sep-18 16:04:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
So doing some looking around on StreetView on the road where the surveyor said the AN was there are some normal looking BT double manhole things on the ground at one end of the road. Intriguingly at the other end is a small green cabinet which doesn't look like any PCP or fibre cab I have ever seen in the same green. The streetview photo though is from 2009 so this seems unlikely I guess.

Anyway regardless of which end of the road it is at now I have had the survey I am closer to getting a real price. Given the surveyor guessed 800m is seems like it is the far end with the mysterious green cab.

Mike
Standard User rman
(newbie) Thu 27-Sep-18 09:17:13
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
oh wow yours went up from desktop quote!

I had my survey done at the beginning of the week, i shall report back what my final build quote is.

Desktop quote was: £7,600.00 ex VAT
Standard User brookheather
(learned) Thu 27-Sep-18 09:54:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
So I finally had my survey this morning - my AG node is about 800m away (outside Osprey Court on the Finchley Road NW3) and my original desktop quote was £7,100+vat. There is ducting under the pavements all the way to right outside my house so I'm not sure whether my quote will change much. I discussed with the surveyor where I wanted the fibre cable to go (back of the house along the exterior wall) and he said fine and would draw it up for the contractors. Due to restrictions in how much the optical cable can bend it can't follow tight corners so it requires quite a bit of planning to get the best line for the installation.

One interesting piece of information was the surveyor told me he has been asked by OR to also survey 95 nearby houses for a future FTTP rollout - so it looks like my FFTPoD order has triggered a wider survey. I'm not expecting any actual FTTP rollout to happen locally in less than a couple of years so it won't affect my FFTPoD order.

My original quote was for Band B which is 200m-400m but my AG node is much further away so a little confused about this. I was told there is a splitter node about 300m from me so is it possible that they would only need to run a fibre cable from the splitter node?

Edited by brookheather (Thu 27-Sep-18 13:54:42)

Standard User CJ18
(newbie) Thu 27-Sep-18 09:56:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
I had the Openreach surveyors round this morning, this was just shy of two weeks from placing my order with Cerberus.

From what I could glean, it sounds like the agg node is either at or close to the FTTC cabinet I am connected to, which is about 1km from my house. There are ducts going virtually the whole way, they did say it looked like some digging would be required on a street corner near my house but shouldn't be any more than that.

One of the surveyors also told me that in my area currently, they are getting FTTP OD installed in around two months.

Now begins the wait for the final build price, because frankly it is all going to hinge on that.
Standard User rman
(newbie) Thu 27-Sep-18 10:06:28
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
brookheather mine did exactly the same, i assume if anything this would put the area higher on the list for the rollout considering they would already have plans etc. They spent 4 days around my village.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 27-Sep-18 23:21:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Hi I'm new to this forum, has anyone else not received an estimated price from the desktop survey? I got an email saying "the network records are not reliable and Openreach have been unable to provide an estimate based on a desk survey." I have went ahead with the field survey anyway so hopefully the price isn't too bad but I'm expecting the worst.
Standard User Sherburn
(newbie) Fri 28-Sep-18 10:03:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I didn't get a price either, although my message was different from yours - simply stating that it wasn't possible to carry out a desktop survey. On the one hand I wasn't too surprised as we're in a new build, but on the other you'd think that new installations should be the ones OR have the best informaton on.

In the absence of any information on AN locations I'm not going to pay for a field survey. It feels too much like throwing money away to do OR's job for them.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 28-Sep-18 11:42:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Sherburn] [link to this post]
 
They are probably simply refusing to do them at the moment, as due to overload on doing the full surveys they have placed a temporary block on ISPs ordering those.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 72623/13368Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 28-Sep-18 11:48:51
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
has anyone else not received an estimated price from the desktop survey?


One was posted here by nemeth782. But then OpenReach changed their mind and sent a price later
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Fri 28-Sep-18 12:19:50
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
They are probably simply refusing to do them at the moment, as due to overload on doing the full surveys they have placed a temporary block on ISPs ordering those.


This won't be the case as I have already ordered the full survey a month ago.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 28-Sep-18 12:30:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Agreed, I'm not aware of them stopping desktop survey quotes. From what I understand it's just new actual surveys which are currently stopped (e.g. if you haven't paid for an actual survey then you'll have to wait an undetermined amount of time before you can pay for an actual survey to be done). If you've already paid for an actual survey then that's fine and the order will still continue as standard.

The good thing about getting an actual survey done is that it updates Openreach's records for your area which may subsequently prioritise that area in a future rollout of FTTP (assuming you don't go ahead and pay for the installation), or even nearby areas around it.

Edited by Ixel (Fri 28-Sep-18 12:32:50)

Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Sep-18 12:49:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Surveyor visited us on Wednesday this week after calling on Monday. Just had an email from Cerberus advising a surveyor will be coming at the end of October ...

Mike
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Fri 28-Sep-18 12:57:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
The annoying thing is that the 4 houses at the top of my road can get FTTP but the rest of the road can't, as fibre cables run along a road that goes past the end of our road.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Sep-18 13:40:44
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
To answer my own question the mysterious green cab seems to be a very old 'Diamond Cable' cabinet, well at least that is what the chamber covers are branded. I had no idea the village ever had cable, certainly no Virgin now.

Mike
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 28-Sep-18 17:35:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Wait, you've got a second surveyor appointment? blush
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Sep-18 17:45:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I don't think so. After replying to Cerberus they've apparently updated Openreach. I suspect just a cock-up.

Mike
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Wed 03-Oct-18 10:38:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Well, Cerberus told me last Tuesday I think I would receive an update from them on the 27th, I still haven't had one. Not exactly a great service so far considering the numbers involved. I appreciate that BT may not have have told them anything but that would take a few minutes to pass on to me. It's been 3 weeks since the survey was done now.

Edited by S2KIP (Wed 03-Oct-18 11:22:24)

Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 03-Oct-18 11:02:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
Ouch, that doesn't sound good. I hope I don't end up in a similar situation.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 03-Oct-18 14:37:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by S2KIP:
Well, Cerberus told me last Tuesday I think I would receive an update from them on the 27th, I still haven't had one. Not exactly a great service so far considering the numbers involved. I appreciate that BT may not have have told them anything but that would take a few minutes to pass on to me. It's been 3 weeks since the survey was done now.


It took me 4 weeks from survey to quote, but others have had 5 or more. During this time I don't think there are any updates from OpenReach (although Cerberus may give them a kick if they're taking too long).

Once the quote has been accepted and paid, you'll find the updates are much better. I am getting a short mail each week, saying which job packs have been issued and what the planned dates are for those works - even if OR are reporting the status is the same as the previous week.
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(experienced) Wed 03-Oct-18 22:39:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
To answer my own question the mysterious green cab seems to be a very old 'Diamond Cable' cabinet, well at least that is what the chamber covers are branded. I had no idea the village ever had cable, certainly no Virgin now.


An estate in my town has NTL chamber covers - but nowhere here has ever had any sort of cable. The estate in question was built during something like 2004/5; NTL must have told the company doing the building works to install them, but subsequently decided not to go ahead. Maybe they made a mistake in their own "survey" of the area, because there's no cable for about a 10-mile radius from there. It was one of the first areas to get FTTC when it came here in 2012.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Wed 03-Oct-18 22:40:12)

Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Thu 04-Oct-18 09:17:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by S2KIP:
Well, Cerberus told me last Tuesday I think I would receive an update from them on the 27th, I still haven't had one. Not exactly a great service so far considering the numbers involved. I appreciate that BT may not have have told them anything but that would take a few minutes to pass on to me. It's been 3 weeks since the survey was done now.


It took me 4 weeks from survey to quote, but others have had 5 or more. During this time I don't think there are any updates from OpenReach (although Cerberus may give them a kick if they're taking too long).

Once the quote has been accepted and paid, you'll find the updates are much better. I am getting a short mail each week, saying which job packs have been issued and what the planned dates are for those works - even if OR are reporting the status is the same as the previous week.


Thanks. It would have been nice to have this info from Cerberus though, as I was told two weeks from the survey. I guess I'll just have to be a bit more patient!

Edited by S2KIP (Thu 04-Oct-18 09:19:44)

Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 04-Oct-18 16:57:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
It seems like you have to be very patient when it comes to FTTPoD, I get weekly updates from Amvia on a Friday although the last few have just been that they are continuing to push Openreach for a survey date. I have gotten used to being patient as I had to wait a year between ordering a new car and getting delivery of it.
Standard User WilliamGrimsley
(experienced) Thu 04-Oct-18 19:17:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
I had to wait a year between ordering a new car and getting delivery of it.

Ouch! What happened there? tongue

William Grimsley.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 04-Oct-18 23:42:37
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: WilliamGrimsley] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WilliamGrimsley:
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
I had to wait a year between ordering a new car and getting delivery of it.

Ouch! What happened there? tongue


It was a Mustang being built in the US and there were long build wait times. It wasn't built until 9 months after order and then there were the delivery times, hopefully the fttp won't take as long to install or be anywhere near as expensive lol
Standard User gigaplant
(newbie) Fri 05-Oct-18 11:08:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices *DELETED*


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by gigaplant
Standard User gigaplant
(newbie) Fri 05-Oct-18 11:11:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
You do have to remember that FTTPoD is a bespoke product meant for businesses and is currently heavy in "demand" (pun intended) which is why they've put a halt on orders probably so that they can work through the backlog of orders, this product is NOT for the impatient, don't forget they also have a national rollout of GFast and some FTTP areas to deal with as well.

Also I thought I'd share my FTTPoD experience as I haven't so far when I should be.

Last October I received a quote for £2750 under the old quotation system but decided to wait for the changes that were happening beginning of this year.

Submitted for desktop quote near end of May, got my desktop quote 3 days later for £5,600.

Paid for survery to be done in beginning of June, survey was done beginning of July, near August we got the confirmed cost of £3846 and proceeded.

External works started in the second week of September, yesterday they got the rope through the external house ducting ready for the jointers to come and bring the fibre to the house.

Sorry for being vague, I thought it would be best to summarise.
Standard User 1nfern0
(learned) Tue 09-Oct-18 13:33:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: gigaplant] [link to this post]
 
I've just received my final quotation from Openreach.

Original estimated build charge was £8000 + VAT

Confirmed build charge is £3950 + VAT which includes the reduction dor survey and premises passed.

I'm eligble for the Gigabit voucher scheme which pushes my overall amount due down to £1740

Suffice to say, this is awesome and have just given the go ahead.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 09-Oct-18 14:56:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Excellent news!

For those struggling to work out the figures, the GBVS is a bit strange because it can't be used to pay VAT. So:

Principal 3950
VAT 790 (= 20% of 3950)
GBVS -3000
---------------
Total: 1740 (of which 790 is VAT)
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 09-Oct-18 15:05:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Nice, congratulations.

I'm still waiting for mine. I had an email from Cerberus Networks last week to update me that Openreach were still doing the survey and the expected completion date was last week. Hopefully not much longer.
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Tue 09-Oct-18 15:47:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Congrats.

Still waiting for mine, email to Cerberus yesterday still unanswered. It doesn't take long to write 'we've had no news from Openreach/we have chased them' etc.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Tue 09-Oct-18 16:56:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
I just had an interesting update from Amvia. They have mentioned that the surveyor may have been able to do the field survey remotely (based on a picture of the outside of my house and the exact location on a map that I sent them), they are waiting for official confirmation from Openreach.
Standard User donkay
(newbie) Tue 09-Oct-18 17:39:09
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Excellent news!

For those struggling to work out the figures, the GBVS is a bit strange because it can't be used to pay VAT. So:

Principal 3950
VAT 790 (= 20% of 3950)
GBVS -3000
---------------
Total: 1740 (of which 790 is VAT)


Thanks for that.

Is the GBVS available to private individuals or only businesses?
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Tue 09-Oct-18 17:44:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: donkay] [link to this post]
 
There is a £500 grant for private individuals
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 09-Oct-18 18:01:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
There is a £500 grant for private individuals


... but only if used *in conjunction* with a nearby business using the £3000 voucher as part of the same build.
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Wed 10-Oct-18 12:52:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lincsat:
When my survey was done, the surveyor didn't check for blocked ducts, he said that OR would pay for clearing any blockages as it was their responsibility


I'm glad I don't have to pay for clearing blocked ducts - A team of groundworkers has spent the last 3 Days digging up the footpath to put in 108m of new ducting and they haven't reached our Street yet.
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Wed 10-Oct-18 13:56:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Confirmed build charge is £7,298.00 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,100.00 for premises passed.

Even with the GVS, it's too much I think. I'll have to have a think.

Edited by S2KIP (Wed 10-Oct-18 14:19:32)

Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Wed 10-Oct-18 15:04:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by S2KIP:
Confirmed build charge is £7,298.00 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,100.00 for premises passed.

Even with the GVS, it's too much I think. I'll have to have a think.


I would love to have that quote. I just got my confirmed build charge of £21540.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Wed 10-Oct-18 16:04:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by S2KIP:
This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,100.00 for premises passed.

Even with the GVS, it's too much I think. I'll have to have a think.


Did it say how many premises passed? If £700 of the discount is for the PON then I'm guessing 8 premises (£50 discount each). If you can get 1 or 2 others to join in to share the build cost, with a £500 voucher each, it might become feasible.

Sharing with one other and taking £3.5K of GBVS would leave around £2K each to pay (+VAT). With two others it would be about £1.2K each. The other parties would also have to agree to a fairly high rental of £100+VAT for the first 12 months service, but could switch after then (*).

All this is supposed to work in theory, but nobody on this forum has yet reported linking orders this way.

(*) In fact, the high first year's rental more than outweighs the £500 voucher. It would be just as well if you could informally get support from one or two others, who agree to pay a share of the install cost up front but not link orders, and they just take regular FTTP when it becomes available. They'll be able to get take FTTP service for £45+VAT per month or less, and maybe get some cashback into the deal as well. But you have to trust OpenReach to activate the properties you are expecting - linking takes the uncertainty away.
Standard User S2KIP
(newbie) Wed 10-Oct-18 17:08:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I don't think anyone would sign up, we already get ~65 Mbit FTTC which is more than enough for an ordinary user.
Standard User simon194
(experienced) Thu 11-Oct-18 08:44:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: S2KIP] [link to this post]
 
Round my way I managed to get 28 prepared to sign up for a group order but then Openreach came along and upped the speed on my estate from an average 14 Mbps to around 45 Mbps and now everyone seems to be happy with the free speed boost.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 11-Oct-18 14:56:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
My confirmed build charge of £21450 must be the highest on this forum and I think that price is without VAT too. I think I will have to go for the Community Fibre Partnership as I believe the other people on my road that the fibre would have been bypassing are on <2Mb.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 11-Oct-18 15:17:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you have the distinction of both the highest confirmed price, as well as a rare case where OpenReach declined to provide any desktop quote (£39K being the highest desktop quote seen to date).

Good luck with the CFP - it sounds like the right approach. Let us know how it goes.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 11-Oct-18 15:39:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Yes, you have the distinction of both the highest confirmed price, as well as a rare case where OpenReach declined to provide any desktop quote (£39K being the highest desktop quote seen to date).

Good luck with the CFP - it sounds like the right approach. Let us know how it goes.


Thanks I will indeed. I think the real killer for my quote other than the 2.7km distance for the fibre cables to travel was that there is a 800m section where there are no telephone poles, to have one installed is about £500.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 11-Oct-18 15:51:22
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
It’s not the poles, poling is relatively cheap, it’s civils to provide ducts, and clearing blocked ducts that costs.

Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 11-Oct-18 16:17:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Surely they would only need to put in or clear ducts if I was in a town or city but I'm out in the countryside where they would use poles. A new pole is £451.17 + VAT and I probably would have needed 16 of them (one every 50m) which is £8662.46
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 11-Oct-18 16:19:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Presumably there is a reason for that 800m without poles?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 71908/13506Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 11-Oct-18 18:33:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Presumably there is a reason for that 800m without poles?


The houses on either side are on different cabinets.
Standard User Pheasant
(newbie) Thu 11-Oct-18 20:34:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Quotes so far on this thread (for those who decided to proceed with a survey) are summarised here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QFkK1sLBFQjl...

Only one person was lucky enough to get an initial desktop quote under £4K - it was £3.9K - but several have had final quotes below that level.

OK so confirmed build costs have now come back at £6,450+VAT including reduction for survey and deduction of £850 for premises passed (I guess that must be my nearest neighbour).

So my desktop quote has gone UP by £1,550 - that must be some sort of precedent!

After DCMS voucher and VAT reclaim, the net cost is £3,450

For those that have had their Cerberus connections, how accurate is the timing in NetCONNECT customer portal?

For instance my order is showing an “expected date” of 18 December 2018? Optimistic / pessimistic / realistic date?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Oct-18 21:38:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pheasant:
For instance my order is showing an “expected date” of 18 December 2018? Optimistic / pessimistic / realistic date?


That date will be based on info Openreach have given to Cerberus, not a date Cerberus have determined themselves.

Based on my experience, treat any completion dates with a large pinch of salt as they are not set in stone and are just tentative. As a very rough guide expect completion anytime between 3-12 months depending on the complexity of your install. You will need lots of patience smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 12-Oct-18 10:56:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
My expected date is blank!

Stuff is going on though. Some digging in nearby streets took place a few weeks back to unblock ducts. 34m of new duct needs to be laid - roadworks.org says it should be taking place now, but these permits have slipped several times.

Basically, it takes as long as it takes. My survey order went in mid-March and the confirmed order end of June. I'm hoping maybe by Christmas.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 17-Oct-18 12:03:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
To update regarding my progress, I was told some days ago that Openreach have now received the survey data or such. I'm now waiting for a price from the planning team, hopefully that won't take too long.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 14:54:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Just to update to say that I've had a reasonably pleasant surprise. My build charge has come through this afternoon and it's a little less than I expected it might've ended up being.

The Openreach estimated build charge was £6,500.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £2,734.83 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,250.00 for premises passed.


I've agreed to the price and am waiting to be invoiced.

EDIT: Ouch, additional IP's are chargeable at nearly 10 pounds per month including VAT for a block of /29. Well, I have no choice for the first year so I'll pay for it, but possibly after the first year of FTTPoD I might consider changing back to AAISP (depending on whether FTTP is still capped at 160Mbps).

Edited by Ixel (Thu 18-Oct-18 15:04:40)

Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 18-Oct-18 15:04:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Just to update to say that I've had a reasonably pleasant surprise. My build charge has come through this afternoon and it's a little less than I expected it might've ended up being.

The Openreach estimated build charge was £6,500.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £2,734.83 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,250.00 for premises passed.


I've agreed to the price and am waiting to be invoiced.


Congratulations....I'm....not....jealous....at....all
If you are able to get a £3000 grant from the gigabit voucher scheme that would be the icing on the cake.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 15:05:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately I can't. As much as I'd love to do so the address I'm working at home, remotely, from isn't the actual business office address. However, I can reclaim back the VAT via my business as it's VAT registered so that's something.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 18-Oct-18 15:15:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Unfortunately I can't. As much as I'd love to do so the address I'm working at home, remotely, from isn't the actual business office address. However, I can reclaim back the VAT via my business as it's VAT registered so that's something.


It says you can use the voucher for your registered business address or trading address.
"Vouchers may only be used for eligible connections at premises from which you actively
trade or (in the case of residential beneficiaries) reside. This may be your registered office
and/or trading address(es) in the case of SME beneficiaries."
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 15:22:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Indeed, but I'm not certain if "actively trade" includes 'working remotely from my house'. I think I asked on the forum before and was told that I'd probably need to prove I do business from my house, e.g. business bank statement (which doesn't say this address so that's not possible) or VAT registered address (again not possible). Perhaps I should ask the scheme for more insight, or Cerberus, as to if and how I might be able to claim it as a business if I'm working from home remotely?
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Thu 18-Oct-18 15:57:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Indeed, but I'm not certain if "actively trade" includes 'working remotely from my house'. I think I asked on the forum before and was told that I'd probably need to prove I do business from my house, e.g. business bank statement (which doesn't say this address so that's not possible) or VAT registered address (again not possible). Perhaps I should ask the scheme for more insight, or Cerberus, as to if and how I might be able to claim it as a business if I'm working from home remotely?


Cerberus will apply for the voucher on your behalf, so you'd be best to ask them if you qualify. I hope you get it as paying only for the VAT would be amazing.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 16:19:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, I'll try. Do you know whether it's possibly too late to ask now since I'm paying the invoice, or should I postpone paying the invoice until this is clarified?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 18-Oct-18 16:20:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Of course, if your home is the place where you do the main running of your business, you may need a licence from the council and perhaps should be paying business rates on the relevant part of the house.

Be wary of opening a can of worms smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 71908/13506Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 16:23:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
An interesting point, well I don't do business from home itself, I work remotely for my business from home. I don't think I'll bother with this voucher, may just open up complications and delay the order. It sounds good but I don't think I'm eligible and I can afford it reasonably anyway. Thanks.
Standard User rman
(newbie) Thu 18-Oct-18 16:37:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Today i received my confirmed build charge, the desktop quote was £7,600.00 + VAT and my confirmed build charge is £2,936.00 + VAT - just under the £3k voucher smile

The only negative part for me is that i've recently switched my FTTC to zen and have around 10 months left on the contract.

I'll be going ahead anyway!
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 18-Oct-18 16:40:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Congratulations! Hopefully the installation process will go reasonably smoothly, as I hope with mine too.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Oct-18 06:22:05
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Nice, by the time it's installed you won't have 10 months left with Zen. It may be possible to buy yourself out of the contract at a reduced rate, theory is as you've left they aren't incurring any further costs so you don't need to pay so much - worth asking the question once you're fibre is live and you know it's reliable.

Standard User ppiixx
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 09:25:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Ouch

Estimated Build Cost: £11,000.00 ex VAT

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 15

Suburban main road with PCP within 100m. No idea where the fibre node is.

Think I will hold out for gfast or native fttp
Standard User brookheather
(learned) Fri 19-Oct-18 10:28:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: 1nfern0] [link to this post]
 
Just received my quote - half the original price - desktop quote was £7,100+vat - after survey quote is £3,780+vat which will be mostly covered by the £3K voucher and I can reclaim the vat as well so happy days!
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Fri 19-Oct-18 11:50:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Just to update to say that I've had a reasonably pleasant surprise. My build charge has come through this afternoon and it's a little less than I expected it might've ended up being.

The Openreach estimated build charge was £6,500.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £2,734.83 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £1,250.00 for premises passed.


I've agreed to the price and am waiting to be invoiced.


Congrats mate!

I was watching out for your progress on the order. I think I'll put in my order when they open up the FTTPoD orders again.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User tommey74
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 14:43:51
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brookheather:
Just received my quote - half the original price - desktop quote was £7,100+vat - after survey quote is £3,780+vat which will be mostly covered by the £3K voucher and I can reclaim the vat as well so happy days!


Always nice to see people getting quotes so much cheaper than the original desktop quote.

However I cannot even seem to get a desktop quote :/ perhaps I need to give them several weeks / months before asking again....
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 15:23:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: ppiixx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ppiixx:
Ouch

Estimated Build Cost: £11,000.00 ex VAT

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 15

Suburban main road with PCP within 100m. No idea where the fibre node is.

Think I will hold out for gfast or native fttp


Is that just the desktop survey? There's a very good chance that the confirmed build cost will be a whole lot lower.
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 15:29:03
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: tommey74] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommey74:
Always nice to see people getting quotes so much cheaper than the original desktop quote.

However I cannot even seem to get a desktop quote :/ perhaps I need to give them several weeks / months before asking again....


Did you get the same reason as me for no desktop survey quote?
"Estimated Build Cost: Onsite survey required to confirm charges"
Standard User tommey74
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 15:42:11
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
In reply to a post by tommey74:
Always nice to see people getting quotes so much cheaper than the original desktop quote.

However I cannot even seem to get a desktop quote :/ perhaps I need to give them several weeks / months before asking again....


Did you get the same reason as me for no desktop survey quote?
"Estimated Build Cost: Onsite survey required to confirm charges"


I have requested a desktop quote and have not received a single reply, how long is it supposed to take?
Standard User NornIron91
(newbie) Fri 19-Oct-18 20:48:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: tommey74] [link to this post]
 
It took 11 days for me through Cerberus
Standard User tommey74
(newbie) Sat 20-Oct-18 12:31:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NornIron91:
It took 11 days for me through Cerberus


Thank you for getting back to me, hopefully it won't be to much longer then.
Standard User clx
(newbie) Wed 24-Oct-18 22:34:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: tommey74] [link to this post]
 
I went with Cerberus for my FTTPoD and im finding it VERY frustrating, mainly due to their speed and communication skills. Bolded the prices for people who want a TLDR.

So got my desktop survey done, took me quite a few weeks of chasing to find out anything, But the final outcome was that the Desktop Quote was blank. I asked what this means and was told there might not be records of that area (street built 10 years ago?).

So i decided to bite the bullet and pay for a full survey and that took them about 2-3 months if i remember right to get it done, I'm absolutely convinced they sat on my order for at least 2 weeks, maybe more, before sending to OR, mainly due to hearing nothing for several weeks and getting little to no replies until i copied in everyone i could to escalate.

When things finally did move, i got called by the actual engineer doing the survey, he was really good! but he asked, why was my job bundled with a separate job for surveying the rest of the street and the connected estate? I explained that i had ordered FTTPoD (and explained what that was as he hadn't heard of it) and he recommended i ask around. Sure enough the Neighbours had seen the OR van and the Engineer i had talked to, but none had ordered anything. I asked Cerberus about this and asked if there is a chance the whole street is being done (and thus why was i paying extra?) but that was dismissed as nothing.

Eventually got my quote back just at over £3000, so of course i ordered, and that's when the already terrible communication got worse. I got my voucher approved within a day and then complete silence for weeks despite promises of weekly updates on progress. So i chased and chased, and again i have a very strong suspicion the order was sat on for several weeks before being sent to OR several weeks after the initial "your order is now with OR" i got another "your order is now with OR".
Recently i finally got some responses saying estimates were being done (surely the point of the paid survey and pricing?) and then Cerberus told me the install could take between 3 and 9 months, not the "90 days" that was promised at the outset of this whole ordeal.

I need fast broadband, this is the only way im going to get it, but honestly if i had another choice and know what i do now i would pick some one else to buy from as ive spent more time chasing for updates than i believe they have on my complete order.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 25-Oct-18 05:57:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: clx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clx:
and then Cerberus told me the install could take between 3 and 9 months, not the "90 days" that was promised at the outset of this whole ordeal.


I am sure that you were never promised 90 days.

Cerberus' website says:

"The estimated lead time to activation is a minimum of 90 working days from completion of planning work following the field survey." (my emphasis)

By the time your order has been recorded with OpenReach, and they have sent out the surveyor, and they have done the planning and given you your final quote, 2 or 3 months have probably already passed. Then another 90 working days is over 4 months, at that's the absolute best case; I have been waiting several months while they dig up neighbouring streets.

The "estimates" are for problems which OpenReach finds in their own upstream network (e.g. blocked ducts) - you are fortunate that you do not have to pay for these. However it adds to the delays while these issues are fixed.

If you have got the service for "just over £3,000" and are offsetting that with the voucher, you are getting FTTPoD for nearly free. Some people have had final (post-survey) quotes of over £20,000.

If OpenReach decided to survey the whole street, it may mean that the "fibre first" project has decided this is a good opportunity to get FTTP in for everyone else at the same time. You should be pleased by this: your cheap FTTPoD install might also have had a community benefit.

Finally: FTTPoD orders have now been suspended due to high demand. So you were fortunate to get your order in before this happened.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 25-Oct-18 11:28:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: clx] [link to this post]
 
You picked the wrong product if you think this is taking too long.
Have a read of the first detailed FTTPod install, probably the only detailed 1 before this thread started.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4552969-my-fl...

That was 4 months from order to activation, when there was only really 1 ISP offering FTTPod nationwide (Spectrum in Wales and some resellers also) and OpenReach were processing single digit order volumes per month.

The order volumes for FTTPod increased considerably when the pricing/minimum term changed in March and ISP's like Cerberus (considerably cheaper than FluidOne (though in fairness they offer a managed service)) started getting mentioned.

Your lead times sound about right to me. It sounds like you are very much blaming* Cerberus for delays at the OpenReach end.
In my opinion such leads times are perfectly acceptable for such a bespoke service with order volume limits, designed to stop OpenReach's workload getting out of hand.

Expecting your order to be completed within 3 months is madness!

edit: * auto correct mistake

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 25-Oct-18 11:31:22)

Standard User Retron
(newbie) Thu 25-Oct-18 15:56:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
You picked the wrong product if you think this is taking too long.
...
That was 4 months from order to activation,

For what it's worth, the progress of my order so far was as follows:

* Late March - applied for desk quote
* One day later - received desk quote, asked for final quote
* Early July - received final quote, order placed
* Late August - overhead cabling completed, spools of fibre seen hanging from poles along my road
* Late October - 3x blocked ducts cleared via roadworks (rejected twice by the local authority, third time succeeded)

I've not had this week's update, but I reckon it won't be long before I need to book an appointment with an engineer to run cabling into the house.

I'm not worried by the wait (after all, it's worth waiting for) and throughout Cerberus have been helpful, chasing things on my behalf and giving regular updates. As the permits alone will have cost Openreach £2,250, I can't see they'll make much profit from this install - which cost £3,350ish (+VAT).

It's worth noting that a side effect of this is that the whole street will be enabled for standard FTTP once my install goes live - I suspect as part of the "fibre first" initiative.

EDIT: And this week's update from Cerberus advises only one of the three duct clearances was in fact successful - the council didn't reply to the other two requests. That'll be another £500 down the drain for Openreach and possibly another two months' delay (as the work needs to be done outside a school, the council refused the permits before as work can only take place during school holidays, apparently.)

Edited by Retron (Thu 25-Oct-18 16:42:00)

Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Thu 25-Oct-18 16:53:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Retron:
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
You picked the wrong product if you think this is taking too long.
...
That was 4 months from order to activation,

For what it's worth, the progress of my order so far was as follows:

* Late March - applied for desk quote
* One day later - received desk quote, asked for final quote
* Early July - received final quote, order placed
* Late August - overhead cabling completed, spools of fibre seen hanging from poles along my road
* Late October - 3x blocked ducts cleared via roadworks (rejected twice by the local authority, third time succeeded)

I've not had this week's update, but I reckon it won't be long before I need to book an appointment with an engineer to run cabling into the house.

I'm not worried by the wait (after all, it's worth waiting for) and throughout Cerberus have been helpful, chasing things on my behalf and giving regular updates. As the permits alone will have cost Openreach £2,250, I can't see they'll make much profit from this install - which cost £3,350ish (+VAT).

It's worth noting that a side effect of this is that the whole street will be enabled for standard FTTP once my install goes live - I suspect as part of the "fibre first" initiative.

EDIT: And this week's update from Cerberus advises only one of the three duct clearances was in fact successful - the council didn't reply to the other two requests. That'll be another £500 down the drain for Openreach and possibly another two months' delay (as the work needs to be done outside a school, the council refused the permits before as work can only take place during school holidays, apparently.)

Paid for mine exactly a month ago on 25 September.

Was informed the other day by Cerberus that Openreach have set a required by date (RBD) for the overhead work of 5 November and duct work RBD is 29 November.

Who knows maybe it will be all done by Xmas...

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 25-Oct-18 16:54:22)

Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 26-Oct-18 08:19:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
My update this week was: "we are expecting the costings to be given to us by the end of this week". Which seems like good news, just over 4 weeks since the survey.

Mike
Standard User tommey74
(newbie) Mon 29-Oct-18 11:26:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Well I finally got my NEW desktop quote

£16,300 Ex VAT

Now prior to the Openreach pricing restructure I was quoted just £1,200 Ex VAT (BAND A)

Now I know that it would obviously be more expensive initially after the new pricing structure was implemented but 15k more seems a little excessive and they are maybe just trying to put people off from requesting a survey due to being so bust recently.

Luckily for me however this recently happened

G.fast Range A (Clean) 232 203.6 33.4 14.5 169.6 Available --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 160.2 106.2 19.9 10 97.5 Available --

So I think I will be giving G-Fast a go instead
Standard User brookheather
(learned) Mon 29-Oct-18 14:00:53
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
Just had my 3K voucher confirmed so total install cost is £780 exc. vat as I can reclaim the vat. Not sure what the wait time for the installation will be - it should be an easy install as it's all existing ducts under the pavement.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Mon 29-Oct-18 15:46:46
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
I wonder how often Cerberus Networks tends to provide updates regarding the order, every few weeks? I've paid for mine almost two weeks ago but haven't heard a thing yet (other than getting a 'payment report' email confirming my invoice is paid pretty much).
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 29-Oct-18 18:15:38
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
I wonder how often Cerberus Networks tends to provide updates regarding the order, every few weeks? I've paid for mine almost two weeks ago but haven't heard a thing yet (other than getting a 'payment report' email confirming my invoice is paid pretty much).


Pretty much nothing for the first few weeks, until OpenReach get their order process into gear. Once they start work, you can expect an update weekly - mine usually comes on Thursday.
Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Wed 31-Oct-18 14:03:35
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I had my first "real' update about 4 weeks after I had paid the invoice. Basically to tell me what the Openreach Required By Dates (RBD) were for the underground and overground work.
Standard User CJ18
(newbie) Thu 01-Nov-18 12:19:40
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: tommey74] [link to this post]
 
Just an update on my order, bearing in mind the original purpose of this thread. The outcome was not what I hoped/prayed for but I wanted to share my experience as it may be useful to others.

I received a desktop quote of £13,900 + VAT from Cerberus back in September. I took a chance and went ahead with the OR survey, which happened a couple of weeks later. I then waited 3-4 weeks for the final build cost from Cerberus, which I received earlier this week.

The final build cost was £7,680 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £900.00 for premises passed.

As I don't run my own business this would cost me £9,216 with VAT. Sadly, it's too much and I openly admit I was taking a punt on the difference being much greater than the 45% it actually is.

There are three other premises passed, but as one is rented, another is an older lady living on her own and the third is a young family, I don't think I'll be able to garner enough interest in sharing the cost. I live on the edge of an estate and although I don't know exactly where the fibre agg node is, from discussions with OR it's over a kilometre away (probably near our FTTC cabinet, which is also 1.2 km away).

It's a shame but it was always a long shot. Maybe one day we will receive an upgrade (current speeds are 20 Mbps) but I have learned that funding it myself is just out of reach.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 01-Nov-18 13:05:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: CJ18] [link to this post]
 
That's a shame, but thanks for keeping us up to date.

Fingers crossed that having the survey done might put you closer to the top of the pile for a future FTTP rollout - especially since you're currently getting less than 24Mbps "superfast" speeds.
Administrator seb
(founder) Sat 03-Nov-18 18:59:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Closing this thread due to size.

Small segment separated and you can carry on here:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4604719-re-...

Sebastien Lahtinen
Co-Founder,
thinkbroadband.com
[email protected]

personal blog - blog.seb.me.uk
twitter - @sebtweet
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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