Extension wiring

Hello,


Quite behind on Broadband after all these years, despite the fact that in the past I used to work at an ISP!

After all these years I finally own a house that can get FTTC. I ordered "BT Fibre Unlimited", which was connected on Tuesday. I then had to ring them and get them to send me a hub, as they'd failed to do that. Hub arrived yesterday, but no cables or filters. Still I found an old ADSL microfilter and cable and plugged it in. In the extension socket it didn't sync, but synced and connected fine in the Master socket - at 36Mb down (and 9Mb up).

I'm believe the product I've ordered can go faster than that (although they don't actually tell you the maximum speed anymore) and the DSL checker at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.address indicates I might be able to get up to 59.3Mb on Range A (clean) or 49Mb on Range B (impacted), so wondering if removing the extension wiring will help. The master socket is a standard NTE5 with removable faceplace, but the extension wiring appears to have been wired to the back of the NTE5, rather than onto the faceplate. (it comes out the bottom of the socket)

So question is:
What is Range A and Range B on the checker? How do I determine which range I'm in?
Should I take the back of the NTE5 off to disconnect the extension wiring (I believe not)
Should I just cut the extension wiring as it comes out the bottom of the socket?

Thanks!

What is Range A and Range B on the checker? How do I determine which range I'm in?

Range A is the speeds they think you get if the line is behaving and no impact from extensions etc, Range B is a more worst case scenario.

Should I take the back of the NTE5 off to disconnect the extension wiring (I believe not)?
What do you mean by back? The small front plate the extension wires are connected to should come off and the extensions are then disabled, so you can check your speeds at the test socket that is subsequently exposed.

In your case though you say the wires seem to go to the back of the master, which if the case sounds like a duff install (i.e. DIY bodge) and best advice is to take pictures while dismantling carefully and get advice on what to do.

NOTE: If it possible for the extension wiring to be the faceplate, but the wire to exit the master socket box in a manner that suggests it is connected to the rear A/B incoming wires.

It is also possible that the master socket is actually receiving the phone signal over the 'extension' wiring.

Should I just cut the extension wiring as it comes out the bottom of the socket?
Don't cut, as doing that you cannot put them back, also there will be a small voltage on them and you may be shorting things when cutting

Thanks Andrew,

Yes it does sound like dodgy extension wiring. I'm pretty sure that its not the source of the signal from outside, as it snakes all over the house. There's been so many dodgy things and bodge jobs that we've discovered as we've been doing up this house that this would just be one more!

Yes - it it definitely comes out of the bottom of the socket, and is wired to the back, the removable faceplate has nothing attached to it. I'll add some pictures when I get home later

As Mr.S says, can you get some pictures and link to them in a post ?

"Hub arrived yesterday, but no cables or filters. Still I found an old ADSL microfilter and cable and plugged it in. In the extension socket it didn't sync, but synced and connected fine in the Master socket - at 36Mb down (and 9Mb up)."

Nobody's mentioned yet that with FTTC you shouldn't need microfilters as the hub is supposed to connect directly to a dedicated, filtered, part of the master socket (if it's a newish type) and you wouldn't then expect, or be able, to connect the hub to an extension socket.

That is making assumptions, not everyone gets/has an SSFP fitted on their NTE.

Exactly.

Hi again, I took the faceplate off the NTE5 again, and found the extension wiring disconnected! It was definitely connected (at the back) prior to the installation, so I think the engineer must have seen it miswired and disconnected it when he came to test after installing it (I wasn't home at the time, but my decorator let him in)

Faceplate off

Faceplate on

Well that makes it easy I guess! Looks like 36mb might be all I can get. Should be fine for now, but might end up switching to Virgin when the contract ends, as the street is cable wired I believe!

Cheers all

I�d be interested in seeing those two screws undone and a shot of the rear terminations to the NTE ....

Unless that cable coming in from beneath the NTE is traceable directly back to the incoming feed for the line ...

Still might be two pairs terminated on the rear.

Looks like you're tight,

2 of the wires do seem to be terminated at the back

Wires to back

If I take the back off, is it fairly easy to disconnect them?
Thanks!

That could well still be just an internal 2 pair feeding the whole shebang.

Gently take those two screws out and post a picture of the rear of the NTE please

Arg turns out you are right, it is the source!

Backplate off

I've found the wire from outside and it goes down the side of the house and in to the right of the front door. There is a junction box there.
It then goes along the hall and up across the kitchen door frame where there is another junction box (which is hanging off the wall!) then it goes across the dining room door, along the dining room skirting board, through the wall, and across the living room to the wall socket!

So I guess I'll be leaving it! Unless I can get Bt to move the master socket (or rewire it to come in directly from outside instead of all over the house through very dodgy wiring!)

It is sometimes easy to make judgements of wiring just by looking.

I can see the feed is internal wiring of �BT� origin.

I�d suggest one more tentative visual checks, of the two internal boxes you have discovered, hopefully these will reveal the pair as gel crimped through, if so, that�s about yer lot.

Unless I can get Bt to move the master socket

I did that a couple of years ago. Not cheap though: it was about £160 if I remember rightly. (You organise this and pay for it through your service provider, who in my case was Plusnet)

Yea I think it must be BT done, a very long time ago.
We're still doing up this house, so some walls are still undecorated etc...

Wire outside
2 junctions as it enters
rubbishy junction box above kitchen door
rubbishy internal junction box rear view
On the outside wall behind master socket - looks like a cable connection came in at that point originally, which must be the snipped off wires coming to the back of the master socket!

There was 1 additional (small) junction box with a BT logo when we bought the place, screwed to the skirting board at the back of the dining room, just before the cable entered the hole through to the living room. As we were replacing these skirting boards I took it off the old skirting board, and just left the cable hanging. Appears though that the builders buried the cable behind the new skirting board, so no chance of putting that junction box back, but no need as it still works!

- candlerb - did moving the master socket increase your sync speeds at all? Might be worth it still if it brings a big improvement in speed!

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-18 00:05:37)

OK, 1st observation, that junction box above the door frame .... hideous. You can see one screw connector, clearly showing corrosion, HR central.

Number 2 (apt huh) that �have a go hero� brown box on the outside wall. Not fitted by Openreach, what horrors lie in there I wonder, �choc block� connectors maybe ?

I would agree with Candlerb - Put in for a �shift of NTE� via your line provider. Cut at the eaves, new under eaves closure, dropwire or downlead run down the wall through the wall and into the back of a shiny new NTE sited near power. Then you can rip all that other twaddle out, and any issues WONT be internal wiring related.

Who is your current ISP ? Might they raise an SFVA (super fast visit assure) via Openreach ? This may get the internal wiring sorted, but possibly not ...

Hi - yes clearly very dodgy! amazed it seems to work as well as it does!

The brown box outside is not really an issue - if you look closely it says "nynex" on it, which is I believe an old cable company that got rolled into virgin, and is not actually connected to anything. The reason I posted the picture was just to show what was on the outside wall opposite the phone socket (where with the backplate off you can see a snipped off cable coming in)

The ISP is BT
The line checker says I should be getting
VDSL Range A (Clean) Downstream between 59.3 and 40, upstream between 15 and 10 Mb Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps) 35.5

VDSL Range B (Impacted) Downstream between 49 and 31.4 Mbps, upstream between 12.8 and 7.1, Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps) 25

So its currently syncing at around 36Mbps up and 9Mb down, which would put it in the "impacted" range.

Given that this appears to be the only phone socket in the house thats connected to anything, and also the "Master" socket despite the dodgy wiring to it, I guess it should by rights be getting the non-impacted speed - so is this enough of a case to call BT (my ISP) and ask them to sort it via a SFVA (new term to me!) you think?

Cheers!

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-18 08:57:42)

In reply to a post by Gorskar:

did moving the master socket increase your sync speeds at all?

Maybe a little, but it's hard to be sure.

My original predicted speed range (A) was something like 5-7 up and 25-36 down. I was getting only 4296 / 23857. Although I wasn't quite at the downstream handback threshold, Plusnet were able to raise some sort of service visit; OR came and replaced the NTE+faceplate and also disconnected some unused extension wiring which connected to an external BT junction box.

Immediately afterwards it was 4059 / 31189.

I still went ahead and paid for a line move, as I wanted the socket in a different place anyway and also this would have cut about 10m off the line length (the old socket was at the back of the house). A week after the socket move I was getting 4577 / 31018. This was in June 2017.

The speed crept up; by Christmas it was up to 5681 / 35127 and I was quite happy about that. I thought it had just taken a while for DLM to adjust to the better wiring.

But from March it crept back down, and now it's back to 4369 / 31069. I think it might be just faster in cold weather, slower in hot weather.

adslchecker predicted speeds also went down, and it's now showing 3.3-5.2 up, 23-32.6 down. It looks like they adjust it to take into account actual speeds observed by DLM, or else they have refined their copper model.

I use a Draytek Vigor 130 modem. Noise margin is 3-4dB, and I'm on a Huawei cabinet.

I had initially suggested to Plusnet that I just pay for the line move in the first place, but they recommended I have the fault visit anyway, because the technicians have different skill sets. Certainly the one who came for the fault visit had a bunch of specialist VDSL test equipment.

Since you are with BT Retail, I�d as for a fibre boost visit.

The remit of a boost visit includes shifting of the NTE if required.

So the line doesn�t pass through the cable company box then ? Phew.

Thanks - will do that after we are moved in properly (after the weekend!)

Cheers,