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Standard User 512uk
(newbie) Thu 09-Aug-18 01:07:26
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Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[link to this post]
 
I'm sure I won't be the first to notice this, but you can find your DP number on the Openreach When & Where page. The JSON result returned from the Superfastmaps API contains a "dp" key. The number returned corresponds to your Distribution Pole/point number. Have validated this and seems 100% accurate so far corresponding to the number stamped on your telegraph pole.

Quite useful for working out fibre rollout etc.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Aug-18 06:42:24
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Yeah its been there for a while now.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 09-Aug-18 08:57:28
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Can you give the link(s)?

Google for "superfastmaps api" doesn't turn up anything useful. Google for "openreach when and where" gives https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br... but that just shows my cabinet number.


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Standard User B31
(member) Thu 09-Aug-18 09:52:22
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Mine just says cabinet 65 doesn’t say what DP.

65 is my voice service, FTTP comes via a different route.

Not that I’m too bothered. All the info about the cabinet and port number was on the label attached to the rolled up fibre outside my door!


Exchange name: Birmingham Priory
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: 65
Technology: FTTP


BT FTTP - Superfast Fibre 3 Unlimited. 205 Mbps down / 24 Mbps up.

New build estate that wasn’t given anything I’d call broadband. First four years 1.6 Mbps ADSL. Following two years, and after many openreach visits, 4.3 Mbps!
Standard User 512uk
(newbie) Thu 09-Aug-18 09:59:45
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
It is on the page as you've linked.

But you'll need to look at the AJAX request which is made to https://api.superfastmaps.co.uk/openreach/1.2/ajax/c... This is simple if you use Firefox or Chrome developer consoles.

The API itself checks the request is from OR. I've tried setting the Referer header, as I'd like to make my own checker, but no joy on that.

Example result set. Here my DP number is 84:

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
5253
5455
5657
58
{
  "head": {    "status": "ok"
  },  "body": {
    "phonenumber": "XXXX",    "message_gfast": "",
    "journeystage": 1,    "journeystage_fttp": "",
    "journeystage_fttp_ecd": "",    "journeystage_gfast": "",
    "uprn": null,    "message": "eoline",
    "icon": "",    "journey_message": "<h6>We're working with government and industry to explore ways to bring Superfast fibre to as many people as possible but don't have a plan for your area yet.<\\/h6><p>You might consider <a href=\"https:\\/\\/www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk\\/fibre-broadband\\/community-fibre-partnership\" target=\"_blank\">co-funding<\\/a> fibre access in your community. Knowing there's a healthy demand in your area can also really help.<\\/p>",
    "icon_content": ""  },
  "exchange": {    "name": "XXXXXXXXXXXXXX",
    "status": "acceptingorders",    "lat": "52.XXXXXX",
    "lng": "-3.XXXXXX",    "status_eng": "Accepting orders"
  },  "cabinet": {
    "number": "",    "status": "",
    "message": "",    "dueby": ""
  },  "results": {
    "speeds": {      "fttc": {
        "up": "",        "down": ""
      },      "fttp": {
        "up": "",        "down": ""
      },      "gfast": {
        "up": "",        "down": ""
      }    },
    "fttc": "",    "fttp": "",
    "gfast": "",    "dp": "84",
    "fttp_inscope": "",    "fttc_inscope": "",
    "eoline": true,    "nodata": "",
    "curemessage": "",    "m": "3600",
    "s": "wales"  }
}


100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User 512uk
(newbie) Thu 09-Aug-18 10:00:16
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: B31] [link to this post]
 
Have a look at the full JSON result set as I've posted above.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 09-Aug-18 10:09:01
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
The majority of people will have no idea what you are talking about when talking JSON results

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 512uk
(newbie) Thu 09-Aug-18 10:20:53
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I recognise that. A lot of the content on TBB is quite technical anyway, but I also don't mind giving a guide or helping someone unfamiliar with this stuff if they would like to know how to view this information themselves.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User max360
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 11:05:34
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
I have tried action to:https://api.superfastmaps.co.uk/openreach/1.2/ajax/check.ajax.php, I'm getting ‘badreferer’ error. A ‘how to’ would be a great help.
Thanks,

ISP: JohnLewis BB: 5.25 Mb down - 0.85 Mb up. Ping: 28ms.

Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 24 - Funded Privately (Community Partnership) Status: FTTC being Built, live due by December 2018

Website: http://www.stechford.online/
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Thu 09-Aug-18 11:18:40
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.... I'd forgotten about the data returned there. I'll have a look at the DP data for the properties just enabled around me, as it will be interesting to confirm how many DPs have been enabled.

Played with querying it a few years ago as part of gathering data for a previous campaign... I think you need to persist the session and/or return cookies, as well as just setting the referrer header.

.Careful about getting your IP locked out too... though of course there are ways around that...

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User 512uk
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 12:23:26
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: max360] [link to this post]
 
You'd need to just refresh the main page which I believe sets a cookie. As the AJAX request to the API is session based with a timeout, once this has elapsed, the API seems to just give a badreferer error.

I can see the site sets a BTOR cookie with an MD5 hash. I've played with putting that in the header for the request to the API and still no joy. I'll have another look when I've got more time.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 09-Aug-18 12:34:54
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Why don't you write a step by step guide on how to do this?

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User 512uk
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 12:55:12
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
Step By Step Guide

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br...

  • Browse to the When and Where Page (link above) using Chrome or Firefox. (Other browsers with Developer Consoles may also work but there will be some minor differences).
  • Open the Developer Console. In Firefox/Chrome, press F12.
  • Select the Network tab, then "XHR" to filter only AJAX requests.
  • Type in your landline or postcode and press Search.
  • Watch the developer console. You will see the request being made to the API.
  • Click the request, which should be the lowest/latest one in the panel. When you click it, all information about the request including the Headers, Cookies and Response data is shown below.
  • Click the Response tab. Depending on the browser you are using, you should now see the full JSON response. (JSON is an object notation format commonly used by web languages/platforms to interact with eachother - it is similar to XML but arguably easier to read).
  • Scroll to the bottom of the response and you will see the 'dp' key which should contain the number of the Distirbution Point serving the property you selected.


Here is a screen shot of the window as an example. I have highlighted the key stages.

Notes

If you receive a referer error, the Cookie/session has probably timed out. Just reload the "When Can I Get Fibre?" page and you should be good to go.

If you search by postcode first, the first request/response will be to look up the addresses. This can be quite useful as it will return a JSON object containing addresses in the postcode with NAD keys, UPRNs, districts and the address type - i.e. gold, silver, bronze.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by 512uk (Thu 09-Aug-18 13:01:37)

Standard User max360
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 13:06:46
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
That's great.

Thanks,

ISP: JohnLewis BB: 5.25 Mb down - 0.85 Mb up. Ping: 28ms.

Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 24 - Funded Privately (Community Partnership) Status: FTTC being Built, live due by December 2018

Website: http://www.stechford.online/
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Aug-18 13:16:58
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your clear instructions, worked a treat.

Apparently I am on DP 1256 on NSICL cab 6. Will this be the same DP for both FTTP and copper lines? As all FTTP/copper infrastructure is u/g in my area I guess there's no way i can verify this on the ground?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Aug-18 13:53:54
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
No Baby, FTTP DP and copper DP will have different ID’s

Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 09-Aug-18 14:40:20
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 512uk:
It is on the page as you've linked.

But you'll need to look at the AJAX request which is made to https://api.superfastmaps.co.uk/openreach/1.2/ajax/c... This is simple if you use Firefox or Chrome developer consoles.


Thanks, I see it now.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 09-Aug-18 16:29:50
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the guide mate, got it now.

BT Infinity 2 - ECI Cabinet
Standard User 512uk
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 16:43:05
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
You're all welcome!

An evening project with a beer will be to have a play at spoofing the Referer check and making a checker/scraper so this can be done automatically and with a better front end.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Aug-18 17:28:37
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
No Baby, FTTP DP and copper DP will have different ID’s


Thanks Zarjaz, in that case it might be that the JSON only outputs the copper DP #, not the FTTP DP #. None of my neighbours have FTTP yet the DP ID still shows up as 1256 (same as mine) which suggests that is a copper ID. Otherwise is it possible that the lack of a FTTP DP code could indicate Openreach installed the fibre direct from the nearest splitter node to my home to save pennies? (this was a lone FTTPoD install)

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Thu 09-Aug-18 17:47:15)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Aug-18 17:45:24
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Answering my own question here, it seems the JSON output does indeed only output the copper line DP ID, not the FTTP DP ID. This was checked by searching for a FTTP only address at IV2 6ED and this churned out dp":""

Still very useful though!

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User 512uk
(learned) Thu 09-Aug-18 18:25:40
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
That's interesting.

I suppose this is most relevant when FTTP hasn't been served by the same pole as copper. In a rural location I'm sure ducting is quite rare; virtually all the houses around by me are all served FTTP via DP telegraph pole.

In one of the examples, the numbered D-pole (which matched the checker) was probably about 300m away from the properties. It was the same pole also carrying fibre overhead with a splitter, from my other thread.

100Mbps Ethernet Leased Line (work)

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by 512uk (Thu 09-Aug-18 18:25:56)

Standard User B31
(member) Thu 09-Aug-18 22:24:58
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Got it.

It gives me a 4 digit DP number, which is different to my telephone cabinet.

It's not a number I've seen before.

I've got a cabinet reference (7 letters long) and a port number (1 digit), both from the tag on the fibre reel. The tag also contained the light level test result (geeky bonus!)


BT FTTP - Superfast Fibre 3 Unlimited. 205 Mbps down / 24 Mbps up.

New build estate that wasn’t given anything I’d call broadband. First four years 1.6 Mbps ADSL. Following two years, and after many openreach visits, 4.3 Mbps!
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Fri 10-Aug-18 04:11:45
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 512uk:
The API itself checks the request is from OR. I've tried setting the Referer header, as I'd like to make my own checker, but no joy on that.


Have managed to script it with Python... it does all sorts of horrible things to try and stop you doing so though, like providing tokens that need to form part of the AJAX call in dynamic JavaScript files loaded into an iframe in the main page... so these need to be extracted. Then the address format for the second stage is in HTML not JSON so needs to be extracted with BeautifulSoup.

Got some interesting data out about my road and see that basically every pavement chamber contains a DP (I had wondered if some were DPs and some just junction boxes, but it seems not)... looks a waste and ideological as most serve only 3 or 4 properties and the ducts are basically empty. And if they insist on replicating that for FTTP, I'm sure will make it far more costly than it would need to be.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 04:11:46
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, I even got around to writing my own app to do the lookups, that was when BTWholesale was blocking my IP when I was doing like 50K lookups a day lol

Was then told by BT to stop, so I started work on the Where and when Page lol

This was from a version that was about two or so years old which I uploaded to YouTube to show its easy to get the info.
Openreach Checker Application Concept

I did start to do a newer better looking one, but didn't see the point due to the original one was mostly the concept of it working.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 04:14:10
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Yeah that token stopped me for like 1 day lol

My App even told me the error the Where and when page was not displaying on the page and when I reported it to BTOR via Twitter they was like how are you even seeing that error lol

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Fri 10-Aug-18 04:19:06
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Lol!

Just played with it this evening... well most of the night it seems!

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 04:35:25
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
Lol!

Just played with it this evening... well most of the night it seems!

Yeah I love Cryptology and Networking and enjoyed doing it smile

But yeah the Token part had me scratching my head at first, so I ended up searching all pages that got loaded and to also see what was sent and how it was being sent, then looked to where it was got from to then have it working app all the time.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 10-Aug-18 08:20:18
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
Got some interesting data out about my road and see that basically every pavement chamber contains a DP (I had wondered if some were DPs and some just junction boxes, but it seems not)... looks a waste and ideological as most serve only 3 or 4 properties and the ducts are basically empty. And if they insist on replicating that for FTTP, I'm sure will make it far more costly than it would need to be.


It seems like they are.

In my initial desktop quote for FTTPoD, they said it would be 14 properties passed. I live at the end of a cul-de-sac, so that would be one or other side of the street.

But after survey they said it would be just me and two neighbours which would be passed for FTTP - and that's almost certainly just the properties served by the pavement chamber outside my house.

I won't know 100% for sure until the FTTPoD installation is completed though.
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Fri 10-Aug-18 18:10:52
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
It's got a bit more confusing now that I've gone through my PCP to see which DPs FTTP has recently been enabled on - there's actually 10 FTTP-enabled DPs in all (apart from those serving the business park), which does equate to something the engineer deploying the fibre said at the time.

Unfortunately I didn't see enough of it going into the ground (only in my road, where there is only one enabled DP!), so I don't know if the other "zones" which have it have had one fibre CBT to cover several copper DPs, or actually do have multiple adjacent CBTs, which seems most likely.

The whole residential deployment is strange (as it overlays good FTTC), now even more so with its randomness.

Here's the map!

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 19:28:22
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
The whole residential deployment is strange (as it overlays good FTTC), now even more so with its randomness.

Do you seriously believe Openreach deploy FTTP willy nilly?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 10-Aug-18 21:54:41)

Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 22:33:53
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by olicuk:
The whole residential deployment is strange (as it overlays good FTTC), now even more so with its randomness.

Do you seriously believe Openreach deploy FTTP willy nilly?

Deploying FTTP I think is ok, but agreeing its there and activating it is another thing.

Our road and side roads are split up over 2 Splitter Nodes, one for the top half and the other for the bottom half.

We are on the bottom half and our FibreDP (which is live) is on the end of the fibre from our Splitter Node and our fibres daisy chain through all the other FibreDP hardware between us and the Spliiter Node.

Now you would think that the other FibreDP before ours (i.e the ones closer to the splitter node) would also be live, sadly thats not the case.

And BT FTTP Team all say there is no FTTP infrastructure in place for those addresses, and as usual I produce photos showing its there and BT sound confused and say they will pass it on to "their suppliers" and nothing happens from it.

So something isn't right.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Fri 10-Aug-18 22:44:44
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Quite the opposite, it's akin to getting blood out of a stone - unless there is competition about. However they are lack planning, control and strategy, and due to most of the network being built in a completely different technological era, don't appear to have accurate records either.

Take the people clued-up enough to find this forum, seeking help with database issues preventing them getting FTTC or FTTP when it's basically available;

Look at my map I published earlier, and the obvious issues either with the databases, or potentially where the network has been badly built, just on one cabinet. See the four red links where data is dubious or obviously incorrect:

- the property adjactent to DP515 showing as being connected to DP525 (typo in data entry or scan?), but they're as far as you can be across the cabinet footprint from each other;
- the property adjacent to 532 being connected to 528 is also an anomaly and unlikely.
- one of the three properties (all within metres of each other) on DP531 shows FTTP as not available, where the other two show as available.
- one property is randomly connected (apparently) to a totally differnt cab to everyone else, which is a new cab for a development built c10 years after the property.
- one property in a terrace that should go to DP536 along with all of its neighbours and the other properties in the same street, shows as going to DP515... and consequently can't order FTTP.

Then there's the 3 or 4 properties in the business park that appear to have been omitted; and the one random business-park property (DP442) connected to a different PCP than all of the rest in its terrace/phase.

Then I still have the quesiton of why the FTTP here has been done in the first place, covering, looking at all of the other speed data available, a random grouping of DPs. I'd be highly surprised of people on ten different DPs have ordered FTTPoD together... and the contract team doing the work including those who did the survey were very much under the impression of it being BDUK work.

Then you have the fact these people doing the work are being contracted to travel the country to work here, there, and everywhere, rather than more local teams being employed longer term, working through their own areas.

Then there's quality, or lack of it. One duct blockage in my road, they didn't repair properly and ran the fibre in whilst the hole was exposed, so will need to dig again to enable the adjactent DP in due course. The other blockage in the road, the fibre-pullers still strugged with after it had been cleared so it again was poorly repaired. And the third hole was dug AFTER the fibre was in, just to they could claim an extra hole dug on their expenses... no fault there at all. Oh, then someone decided to send a van with traffic lights every day, mostly when no one showed up to do any actual work, and they just sat there half the day.... every day for a week and a half Didn't see traffic lights used once, it's a local small estate road, and there would be no need.

What was good was the speed of implementation... live a month from the groundworks, none of this year+ business, or fibre dangling from poles forever as often seems to be the case in the more rural areas likes mid-Wales.

But yes, I stand by my original statement, applicable to both BDUK and OR.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Aug-18 23:29:47
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
Look at my map I published earlier, and the obvious issues either with the databases, or potentially where the network has been badly built, just on one cabinet. See the four red links where data is dubious or obviously incorrect:


Did you draw the above map using Openreach's FTTP network topology map or just the results from th BT/OR DSL checker? Because if the latter, I hope you're aware that the DSL checker can be wrong thereby potentially making your map useless. As I've said elsewhere you need to sit down with the Openreach planners and accountants and let them explain the logic/reasoning behind the FTTP rollout in your area.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Sat 11-Aug-18 00:39:23
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
As per the topic of this thread, using the data from the Home and Business checker (merged/checked against the DSLchecker - both give the same results, but different additional fields). Regardless of whether Openreach have a separate FTTP network topology map, that's useless for the souls who want to order it and can't because their service provider says no as they're taking a feed from the same database as the Home and Business and DSLchecker sites.

eg/ bt.com says 16 St John's Close can only get superfast 67Mbps services, whereas everyone else in their road can order FTTP.

Therefore these "errors" make a significant difference.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User sidef
(newbie) Sat 11-Aug-18 09:25:41
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
As baby frog mentions, I don't know why you are getting so concerned. Ignoring the business park for the moment, the FTTP largely infills properties which are furthest away from the original FTTC deployment.

This makes perfect sense as those would likely be the longest lines. It may have been more cost effective for FTTP than to do a massive copper rearrangement of the bigger cables feeding the DPs to allow fitting of an AIO cabinet (for those properties not originally served by FTTC). The exact same mix of FTTC and FTTP has been done under BDUK in my village, for exactly that reason.

Business parks are always a bit strange as they often have multiple copper lines to one premise and also leased lines/data lines etc. Your map shows most premises have their own DP, which again seems very sensible from a copper network build perspective and highlights that OR expected each premise to have a complex copper network and certainly multiple lines. These may not go back to the cabinet and some could be EO. So providing FTTP again seems more sensible.

The missed properties could be just a database error. Again we had this in our village several times. This was fixed via discussions between our council BDUK person and OR. It is no good as you Joe Public trying to fix this without engaging with Hampshire CC. The fact that some properties are not connected to the nearest DP and may connect to one "far away" is almost certainly due to there not being enough copper pairs left in the DP. These are often fed only by10/20 pair cables and there is certainly not a 50 way pair run to each DP. Given the patchwork nature of the build of the area, this is highly likely.

A further factor maybe failed pairs may have meant none are spare in a particular DP, so pairs from a DP further away are used.

In summary, you can't say "its wrong" by just plotting maps from a public data source. You don't have access to the OR copper and duct maps, nor the knowledge to the historical reasons for why the network was built as it is.

Edited by sidef (Sat 11-Aug-18 09:39:09)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Aug-18 11:03:55
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: sidef] [link to this post]
 
I suspect its a classic case of sour grapes from olicuk as he wants to know why he's not getting FTTP (despite already enjoying 64 Mbps on FTTC) yet some others with FTTC in his area are getting FTTP - allegedly. He doesn't realise its extremely rare for Openreach to deploy native FTTP to properties already getting good FTTC speeds (excl. Fibre First areas). If he was stuck on 0.5 Mbps ADSL then yes his concerns would be valid but he's not.

If he's really that desperate for higher speeds, then he should consider paying for FTTPoD like a few of us have done or a cheaper solution would be to bond multiple FTTC lines.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Sat 11-Aug-18 13:02:30
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Cheers mate....

It is extremely rare, correct... assuming we're allowed to trust the TBB maps or published figures of 1% of whatever it is, then it's rare even without FTTC also being present.

Obviously I'm disappointed not to have the FTTP option without hassle (I can presumably get a gigabit voucher through my small business and still get FTTP relatively easily and "cheaply" as it shouldn't need more than 1x 300m 4-port CBT to supply me, with only the last 10m of route being any different to that just supplied)… and I'm disappointed those installing it who said everyone in the street would be able to get it were wrong (but I could see that coming). I know exactly why FTTP hasn't been put everywhere... I'm surprised it came here at all as I expect this area to be near the bottom of the prioritisation for it, given the FTTC availability, lack of competition, etc. And I am pleased to have good (and just got better) FTTC, without needing to campaign for it for 2 years as I did where I lived before (successfully resulting in commercial deployment over 3 cabinets to around 800 properties).

However, I can't believe that whilst there are some fairly obvious data errors in the "system", that it is so wrong that it says the 47 properties just made available for FTTP could have previously got great FTTC speeds, and actually they couldn't and needed intervention. It's a relatively tiny cabinet footprint (far smaller than nearby PCP 5 for example), and I've seen the cables in the ground that feed some of the properties, so unless there's some weird interference affecting very particular areas, there's nothing wrong with those properties FTTC.

Anyhow, once I hear back from BDUK/Openreach, hopefully all will become clear... I still anticipate it being a "mistake" caused by poor data.

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fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 11-Aug-18 13:19:47
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
If you have firm data (rather than a feeling) that our maps are wrong then details of what is wrong are always welcome.

If this thread is about the area I think, then I agree with the other poster saying the area with FTTP was likely to be the slower VDSL2 ones and on the business there is extra funding available, so giving them FTTP is more likely.

"or published figures of 1% of whatever it is" I've no idea which 1% you are referring too.

BTW on areas with FTTC and FTTP I had better warn to not look at Northern Ireland where FTTP is starting to roll-out across VDSL2 areas.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User olicuk
(regular) Sun 12-Aug-18 02:39:45
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
No nothing wrong with the TBB maps as far as I know.... I was just questioning the last two commenters if I'm allowed to trust the TBB maps as they implied I shouldn't trust the data from DSLchecker and Home and Business wink

I'm done with the discussion on here about my particular area until I've (hopefully!) managed to engage HCC and Openreach to discuss it. I was just sharing new information (uncovered thanks to this thread) which I believe will be useful in my discussions with them. And whatever some think, I'm primarily trying to ensure the BDUK funds are going where they're meant to, and Openreach are providing accurate data in support of that.

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fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Aug-18 08:33:22
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Six years ago I mapped and scrapped data for all our local cabinets, there were loads of errors, properties connected to cabinets miles away, when there were cabinets much closer, clearly errors. I suspect the database is extremely complex, and at some point was transferred from paper records, so very easy for mistakes to happen.

Standard User olicuk
(regular) Sun 12-Aug-18 09:42:20
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Agreed and I was highlighting that also from my scrape of local data. One of the problems with these errors is that the same dataset is used by ISP systems, and therefore affect what can be ordered (without manual intervention to fix the problem first).

What is unlikely is large scale faults with data, for example meaning that swathes showing as being able to obtain good FTTC, actually can't... which some posters were trying to imply could be the case. And given the tiny cabinet footprint and single multipair cable working its way down the road ducting and being split via DPs at various points, even less likely here.

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fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP + SureSignal + EE Signal Box + Netgear NAS
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Aug-18 09:47:28
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
I helped quite a few people in the early years where they couldn't get FTTC yet their neighbours could, in the majority of cases they were just database errors, and as you say the ISP's use the same data so it was a case of computer says no.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 12-Aug-18 09:54:57
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Hence why we have our model e.g. in fill cabinets with estimates clearly still from the original cabinet location

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 12-Aug-18 09:55:34
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
And what we do now

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User partial
(experienced) Sun 12-Aug-18 10:40:15
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
I've always found Openreach records on which property is connected to which cabinet to be extremely accurate and which DP very accurate.
Standard User oliver2222
(newbie) Fri 12-Jun-20 14:52:16
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
how do I output the DP number like that so it shows what you can get
Standard User oliver2222
(newbie) Fri 12-Jun-20 14:53:03
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Re: Find DP Number via Openreach checker


[re: 512uk] [link to this post]
 
how do I used the DP number like that

from Oliver
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