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Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 15-Aug-18 22:32:05
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Vectoring & 80mb cap


[link to this post] 		 
At the risk of asking a daft question...

With BT wanting to get faster speeds to customers why don't they enable vectoring (I know ECI cabs cant do this still?) and allow people to have the line run as fast as it can go?

And use DLM to keep said lines stable etc.

The question comes from mainly noticing that vectoring is off for my line and as far as I know has always been. Not that I need it (Yet) But the max attainable has been getting closer and closer to the 80mb mark! I have a Huawei cab.

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DSLAM type / SW version:        BDCM:0xa48c (164.140) / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:          AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24jDSL mode:                       VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                         ShowtimeUptime:                         78 days 17 hours 15 min 40 sec
Resyncs:                        0 (since 15 Aug 2018 22:24:03)                        
                                Downstream      UpstreamLine attenuation (dB):          15.3            0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):        Not available on VDSL2          Connection speed (kbps):        79999           19999
SNR margin (dB):                7.7             15.1Power (dBm):                    13.3            6.6
Interleave depth:               16              1INP:                            48.00           0
G.INP:                          Enabled         Not enabledVectoring status:               5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)           
 RSCorr/RS (%):                  0.0042          0.1463
RSUnCorr/RS (%):                0.0000          0.0000ES/hour:                        0               0


TalkTalk 80Mb
Current Line Stats
Attainable Rate: DL: 83884 UL: 28269
Connection Speed: DL: 79999 Kbps UL: 19999 Kbps
SNR: DL: 7.2 UL: 14.4=9
Attenuation: DL: 8.7 UL: 2.9

Edited by Seansmit17 (Wed 15-Aug-18 22:33:33)
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 16-Aug-18 03:17:23
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post] 		 
The short answer is because Vectoring costs money.

Most countries who run VDSL2 Profile 17a (What we use) that have a 100Mb cap use Vectoring.
As cabinets fill up fewer and fewer lines are capable of reaching 100Mb without Vectoring.

Vectoring modules and upgraded line cards cost money. They wouldn't gain any extra income from doing this.
It would also make the ECI users even more disadvantaged as like you say they can't do Vectoring properly.

If they wanted to roll out Vectoring it would likely require the ECI M41's to be replaced.

They won't deploy Vectoring to commercially deployed cabinets though.

It will likely continue to be deployed on targeted BDUK cabinets where they deem it appropriate.

You still have the possibility of your SNRM target being lowered if you ever do drop below 80Mb.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 16-Aug-18 08:30:16
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post] 		 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
The short answer is because Vectoring costs money.

Most countries who run VDSL2 Profile 17a (What we use) that have a 100Mb cap use Vectoring.
As cabinets fill up fewer and fewer lines are capable of reaching 100Mb without Vectoring.

Vectoring modules and upgraded line cards cost money. They wouldn't gain any extra income from doing this.
It would also make the ECI users even more disadvantaged as like you say they can't do Vectoring properly.

If they wanted to roll out Vectoring it would likely require the ECI M41's to be replaced.

They won't deploy Vectoring to commercially deployed cabinets though.

It will likely continue to be deployed on targeted BDUK cabinets where they deem it appropriate.

You still have the possibility of your SNRM target being lowered if you ever do drop below 80Mb.


AFAIK They only deploy vectoring in areas that have properties that require it i.e to make sure superfast targets are met on BDUK. My Cab has vectoring enabled the other 2 in the village don't.


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Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Thu 16-Aug-18 12:11:34
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: deleted] [link to this post] 		 
In reply to a post by jdigz7:
AFAIK They only deploy vectoring in areas that have properties that require it i.e to make sure superfast targets are met on BDUK. My Cab has vectoring enabled the other 2 in the village don't.


Absolutely correct. Which is why I said..

It will likely continue to be deployed on targeted BDUK cabinets where they deem it appropriate.


but someone threw in a comment a couple days ago that the BDUK target thing is an internet myth (probably aimed at me) and I couldn't be bothered arguing so left that point out.

I'd be fascinated to hear for what other reason BDUK are spending public money on Vectoring if it isn't to help with properties passed by SuperFast targets.

edit: fixing quotes

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 16-Aug-18 12:13:58)
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 16-Aug-18 14:12:21
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post] 		 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by jdigz7:
AFAIK They only deploy vectoring in areas that have properties that require it i.e to make sure superfast targets are met on BDUK. My Cab has vectoring enabled the other 2 in the village don't.


Absolutely correct. Which is why I said..

It will likely continue to be deployed on targeted BDUK cabinets where they deem it appropriate.


but someone threw in a comment a couple days ago that the BDUK target thing is an internet myth (probably aimed at me) and I couldn't be bothered arguing so left that point out.

I'd be fascinated to hear for what other reason BDUK are spending public money on Vectoring if it isn't to help with properties passed by SuperFast targets.

edit: fixing quotes


Yes, sorry was just confirming the BDUK thing as in this area only cabs which have outlying properties have vectoring. the 3 villages have a few farms and outlying places where vectoring would help get them above the 24Mbit mark.

Vectoring cabs also have a slower sync/resync time. At least the one we are connected does..
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Aug-18 15:05:17
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: deleted] [link to this post] 		 
Yes vectoring is on around 1,800 BDUK cabinets, or at least was when I was told about it.

If vectoring allows BT to invoice for more premises then it may make it cost effective, hence the inclusion on some and not others.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Aug-18 10:31:03
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post] 		 
If they enabled vectoring they could charge more for packages above 80Mbps. As for ECI many have Huawei twins now, people choosing lower speed packages could be put on the ECI cab, higher speed or requiring the extra range on the Huawei, but of course this would create management issues, and there will be many ECI cabs without twins.

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Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Fri 17-Aug-18 12:04:02
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post] 		 
You can't have Vectoring where there are 2 different DSLAM's situated.
The ECI would kill the Vectoring on the Huawei in that situation.

OpenReach would need to route different cable bundles to 1 DSLAM and other bundles to the other DSLAM to isolate them.
They would then need to ensure those cable bundles stayed isolated at every single stage of the D-Side.

That leaves you with the same problems as ECI line card Vectoring. Order systems aren't designed to cope with this kind of thing. It would be a logistical nightmare to organise if it was even possible.
Maintaining it would be even worse.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 17-Aug-18 12:41:06
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post] 		 
If you are right there, wouldn�t this also apply to Huawei non-vectored with a G.Fast box attached?

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Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Fri 17-Aug-18 12:42:11
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Re: Vectoring & 80mb cap


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post] 		 
No they don't overlap VDSL2 and G.Fast frequencies.

edit: typo

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 17-Aug-18 12:42:31)
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