How can I find out what speed my line is capable of?

How can I find out (with some accuracy) what speed my line is capable of? I'm on Sky FTTC with the 40/10 package and would like to know the maximum my line can support to see if upgrading my fibre package would be worth doing. Is anyone able to suggest a method for this? Many thanks.

Use https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s... rather than the retail checker as gives a more detailed range.

In terms of what your line will really support, only way to know for certain is try it on a faster speed configuration

The Max Sync now suggests you will see some improvement, question is whether the extra suggested by the range is worth the extra cost for you.

I suggest you just reread what was said in your July thread .

Nothing has changed in the information you have available, and you got the answer.

The only way you can get a more accurate figure would be to fork out for another router that gives full router stats to the user. That means finding out which routers and how. It needs to use the MER protocol.

From your sig, there and here, you were clearly on either the 55/10 or 80/20 Openreach package. The downstream 42Mbps is suspiciously low, the upstream obviously has something wrong with the connection. That�s what you need to sort out first.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Sep-18 09:46:45)

Mr Saffron and RobertoS - thanks for your replies. I was hoping there was a Windows command or programme I could run to give me an idea rather than getting a new router to replace the rubbish Sky one. I take it there isn't?! I suspect 55Mbps as I was able to increase my noise margin from 7.7 to 9.8 but that's not really scientific! Unfortunately the BT Wholesale checker provides a range rather than specifics for my line.

Windows can do nothing to reveal what the line capabilities are

You need to connect a VDSL2 modem/router that reports the maximum attainable speed (off top of my head cannot think of the models that do), this would not connect all the way through to Sky but would show you the potential VDSL2 speeds.

The range is all anyone can provide because there are so many variables that until you have the VDSL2 running you will not know. Even with the maximum attainable speed above there is no guarantee that you would reach that, because on some lines when running at the maximum possible the errors are so great that it may be unreliable and thus systems will slow you down to increase the reliability.

Thanks Mr Saffron. I'm thinking of upgrading my router anyway to improve the WiFi coverage I get so if a model that works with Sky Fibre and displays maximum line stats comes back to you please let me know!

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Thanks Mr Saffron. I'm thinking of upgrading my router anyway to improve the WiFi coverage I get so if a model that works with Sky Fibre and displays maximum line stats comes back to you please let me know!

TP Link routers display max attainable rate on adsl/vdsl lines so probably worth getting something like a TP Link VR900 or a VR2800 if you're happy to spend more.

Thanks baby_frogmella. Am I able to just plug and play with either of the products you suggest? Are they combined modem/routers as I assume I would need? As I have Sky, do I need to do anything in particular to get it to work correctly? Apologies for the questions, I have only ever used the equipment supplied by my ISP's before. Thanks.

Is your upstream throughput very low, like it was with BT? With your stats I would expect it to at nearly the 9999 connection speed. If it is still low as it was on Infinity then there is definitely something wrong.

Uh oh!!! I�ve just spotted that with BT you were on Infinity 2. I only registered the Infinity in my brain earlier, not the 2. Your line needs sorting out but without full stats as evidence it would be very risky to get an engineer out. It could very well be something in your house causing the trouble and you could be charged well over £100 for an engineer call out if it is, and they might go away saying that and not fixing whatever it is unless you�ve got that on the order for the visit. (How you do that or whether it�s just down to the engineer at the time I don�t know).

I�m also on about 19dB downstream and although we can�t know the upstream attenuation it will move in step. I have a sync speeds as in my sync, though due to minor instability it can sometimes drop to 65,000/11,500 area when the Openreach DLM decides the error rates have gone too high and adjusts the SNR Margin upwards. As MrSaffron just said it can. It all depends on the individual line, other lines running near to it, and other noise sources like power subtsions and factories along the route.

A single new connection of another FTTC line at the cabinet can drop your downstream connection speed by 10Mbps! There are several examples of forum posters having that happen, and there is nothing they can do about it.

Back to your line. Is your router connected direct to the master socket, and which sort of master is it? How many extension sockets are there, whether in use or not, and if some are in use what Is on them?

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Thanks baby_frogmella. Am I able to just plug and play with either of the products you suggest? Are they combined modem/routers as I assume I would need? As I have Sky, do I need to do anything in particular to get it to work correctly? Apologies for the questions, I have only ever used the equipment supplied by my ISP's before. Thanks.

Yep those two I mentioned are combined modem/routers. Last time I used the VR2800 it had an option for 'sky vdsl' (or something similar) amongst the choice of ISPs from the drop down list so you should be able to use it on your Sky fibre line.

Edit: above confirmed by this Sky user's feedback on the VR2800 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/profile/amzn1.account.AF...

Edited by deleted (Sun 09-Sep-18 11:26:43)

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Am I able to just plug and play with either of the products you suggest? Are they combined modem/routers as I assume I would need? As I have Sky, do I need to do anything in particular to get it to work correctly? Apologies for the questions ....

With Sky, no. I mentioned something called MER before, which is a different login method from other ISPs.

I don�t know much about it, sorry, but this post and those either side of it in the link chain have exactly the info and links to external forums that you need. Also perhaps in the Sky thread on this site.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Thanks baby_frogmella. Am I able to just plug and play with either of the products you suggest? Are they combined modem/routers as I assume I woulYep those two I mentioned are combined modem/routers. Last time I used the VR2800 it had an option for 'sky vdsl' (or something similar) amongst the choice of ISPs from the drop down list so you should be able to use it on your Sky fibre line.

Sounds good.

Hi RobertoS. On Infinity 2 my upload was rubbish. On Infinity 1 I got (as I do now with Sky) near maximum upload. I'm connected to the only socket in the house (NTE5A) and shielded cable from socket to router. I noticed the incoming cable is pinched in a few places where it is stapled to wooden beams in my loft. My cabinet must be full (a big 288 one) as a smaller cabinet (ECI?) appeared next to it last week. Thanks.

I thought I read somewhere that Sky don't give out the PPP username/password that you need to use their FTTC service with a third-party router.

Search finds: https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Broadband/How-do-I-get-...

Therefore if you plug such a device into your line, you could let the modem train up and see the sync speed and related stats, but not actually connect to the Internet.

Thanks baby_frogmella, that seems like a good buy for me then.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I thought I read somewhere that Sky don't give out the PPP username/password that you need to use their FTTC service with a third-party router.

Search finds: https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Broadband/How-do-I-get-...

Therefore if you plug such a device into your line, you could let the modem train up and see the sync speed and related stats, but not actually connect to the Internet.

Yeah it used to be the case on Sky that you had to faff around with extracting usernames and passwords but that's no longer the case. As long as the router supports DHCP option 60/61 then you can use it.

My cabinet must be full (a big 288 one) as a smaller cabinet (ECI?) appeared next to it last week. Thanks.

OpenReach no longer deploy ECI cabinets.
It's almost certainly a smaller Huawei cabinet and not an ECI cabinet.

Had your Huawei 288 had an extension to 384? It's a small extension on the right of the cabinet that doesn't touch the ground.
This can be seen on the right of my Huawei 288.

https://ibb.co/jZdxQU

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 09-Sep-18 13:34:22)

Here's what I have at the cabinet I'm connected to https://imgur.com/a/DZ7dwhi

JOhn83 - there is an add-on to the large FTTC cabinet as per your image as well.

I can just barely see the HD expansion on the large Huawei cabinet.
This increases capacity from 288 to 384.

The new FTTC cabinet at the far end is a small Huawei.
This supports 128 ports and can be expanded to 192.

https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm

baby_frogmella - do the two routers you have mentioned support DHCP option 60/61 do you know? Would it be listed in the specs? Thanks.

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

baby_frogmella - do the two routers you have mentioned support DHCP option 60/61 do you know? Would it be listed in the specs? Thanks.

Correct, they do. However the end user doesn�t need to be concerned wrt DHCP 60 on Tp Link modem/routers, once you select sky FTTC as your connection, the router automatically applies the correct settings behind the scenes.

It�s only when using standalone routers (ie without a modem built in) on sky that you specifically have to ensure DHCP 60/61 is supported & selected - not all routers do on stock firmware.

Thanks baby_frogmella. Just need to decide how much to spend then I guess. Is one preferable to the other from the two you suggested?

The VR2800 is the one to go for if you want the very best wifi, it�s a 4 stream router (4x4) whilst the VR900 is 3x3.

May as well get the best I can afford then and increase my WiFi range! Thanks baby_frogmella. Really appreciate your input. Thanks to the others who took time out to reply as well. Great forum this is.

At least you'll be able to get the only information that can answer the question . With luck it will say upgrading the broadband is worth it. (At the time).

Very true RobertoS! Then if someone else is thinking of changing their router I might be able to offer some assistance after having done it as well! Thanks for your assistance. Much appreciated.

Sorry to be a pain all but I have just read a review of the TP-Link AC1900 (Archer VR900 V2) at click and it says this -

On the other hand there are a few issues with TP-Link�s kit. Firstly, the DSL line stats they provide are rather limited, thus you�ll get the basics (attenuation, SNR etc.) but not much more.

Will it give me enough detail about my line?

Thanks again.

You�ll get the max attainable rate in the stats but not get things like g.inp, interleaving status etc.

Ah right I see. Is it useful to have interleaving status and g.inp status of diagnosing faults for example?

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Ah right I see. Is it useful to have interleaving status and g.inp status of diagnosing faults for example?

It's useful but not as important as line rate, max rate, attenuation, SNR margins etc. TBH I don't think there's many routers which display things like g.inp and interleaving status in the standard web gui - usually these options are obtained via telnet commands which out of the box, the TP Link doesn't support.

However.... it may be possible to get advanced stats on all/most TP Link routers based on this info:
Getting extra DSL stats from TP-Link modem/routers
FTTC DLM Reset advice / Getting router error stats with TP-LINK VR200

Btw on the Tp Link website, you can also see the emulator for the VR2800, which clearly shows that max attainable rate is displayed in the stats (status>advanced). However don't pay too much attention to the list of ISPs, they're mostly North American.
https://www.tp-link.com/resources/simulator/VR2800V1...

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

Ah right I see. Is it useful to have interleaving status and g.inp status of diagnosing faults for example?

I would say it's essential for what we want to do, which is an "as full as possible" analysis of your line's potential. Interleaving and G.INP make a huge difference to both sync and attainable, but if we don't know their status we are only half way to the full figures.

Very few GUIs give anything really helpful. Getting the stats through telnet is by far the best way to get stats as you get a huge amount more detail including a breakdown of the types of error.

Another thing about telnet being available is that live graphing of SNRM down and up, Attainable down and up, FECs, SES and other data are available using the excellent DSLStats monitoring program. Hundreds of people on thinkbroadband use it, including me.

It runs permanently on an old laptop I have next to the router, connected by ethernet, and amongst all the above I can scan back if there is a re-sync and see when it happened and get some idea of the cause.

There's no way I would buy a modem or modem/router that didn't support telnet.

baby_frogmella and RobertoS - so looks like I might need to widen the search for a router instead of looking at the TP link 2800 then?

In reply to a post by giggsy1977:

baby_frogmella and RobertoS - so looks like I might need to widen the search for a router instead of looking at the TP link 2800 then?

Well it all comes down to what�s the most important features to you:

Modem chipset
Wi-Fi coverage
Full/advanced router stats
Cost

The TPLink VR2800 ticks those first 2 features. The Billion 8900AX is similar but also
gives you advanced line stats by telnet (afaik) but it ain�t cheap. Personally I can live without advanced line stats if I don�t have line issues.

In my opinion, yes, but I'm not the one to recommend the "best at the moment". There can be quite a difference in modem performance depending on the chipset.

I have a Billion 8800NL R2. That has a Broadcom chipset but not the best one for sync. (The previous 8800NL had the better one). Mine may be dying as well so I'm thinking of getting something that has a better Broadcom chipset.

Edit: Typos in the 8000NL.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 10-Sep-18 17:36:14)

But giggsy might (not definitely) have line issues . Even if he doesn't, which we hope, he has a fairly finely-balanced decision to make re his broadband package. That's what the thread is basically about, so the more info the better.

True, which is why the OP has to make a decision on what he requires from a router.

He may also want to consider a 2 box solution: an el-cheapo HG612 vdsl modem from eBay paired with an Asus RT-AC86U router loaded with Merlin fw might be a best of all worlds solution. Despite its age, the HG612 is still a rock solid modem for FTTC lines and they�re ten a penny on eBay these days.

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Sep-18 12:42:49)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

He may also want to consider a 2 box solution: an el-cheapo HG612 vdsl modem from eBay paired with an Asus RT-AC86U router loaded with Merlin fw might be a best of all worlds solution. Despite its age, the HG612 is still a rock solid modem for FTTC lines and they�re ten a penny on eBay these days.

I thought you had to hack / unlock the HG612 to get modem stats. You're also suggesting reflashing custom firmware onto the ASUS.

I'd suggest those options are best suited to a technically-advanced user who is happy to tinker.

And yes, the HG612 is, or was, rock solid. They are wearing out though. Neither of mine is now reliable. And in any case the sync speed on my 19dB line was about 3Mbps lower than a Zyxel something or other, a Draytek 130 and my current Billion which we know is likely to be slower than its predecessor or anything else I might replace it with.

Definitely not the best option for giggsy.

I'm more than happy to tweak (as long as I know what I'm doing and can undo any changes if necessary!). It does sound like a bit of a faff I guess. I like to tweak but I also appreciate things that just work! I guess I need to invest in a new router to find out if it's worth me upgrading so cheaper might be better in case I'm disappointed!