Have FTTPoD, can I cancel my landline?

I have an FTTP on Demand (from Fluidone). We're using a SIP phone exclusively.
I have a BT landline which is delivered on a separate copper which was connected to my alarm. My alarm has been upgraded to signal over 3g and so I don't need the landline for anything any more.

Can I just cancel it without causing any problems? Will it cause me a problem if I want to switch to another provider at the end of my 3 years with fluidone?

If fluidone don't mind you can cancel it...

As for three years time - just a case of finding a provider have to do data only

Yes, you can cancel your voice over copper service without affecting your FTTPoD service - the two aren't linked since FTTPoD is sold as data only. I cancelled my voice service a year or so ago once and moved the number over to VOIP as I didn't want to lose my number. I pay just a few £ per month with yay.com

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If fluidone don't mind you can cancel it...

As for three years time - just a case of finding a provider have to do data only

Fluidone don't know anything about my landline... so I'm sure they wouldn't care. I actually get the BT discount for getting no broadband on my BT line

If you wanted to keep your BT landline - and don't have any type of xDSL service on it - you may be able to get it at a reduced price as BT Retail's systems are unlikely to see you have a FTTPoD service

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/60353...

Cheaper still to just cancel it ?

Have you guys really thought through the implications of giving your landline the elbow? Yep, VoIP is quite dandy but not all VoIP hosted suppliers support emergency services and those that do require you to register your installation address (with some doubt that really gets recorded) and then there is the reliability of your broadband service to contend with as it simply does not provide an always on service. Even with a duplication of ISPs, you can�t always be sure that the internet will be there as you need a power supply which seems to be failing quite a bit lately.

For a £150 or so a year, I like to have the assurance that 999 will be there should I ever need it..

As long as you can get any mobile signal at your house then I don't think it's a problem. You don't even need an active SIM, any working mobile will be able to dial the emergency services.

Welcome to 2018.

The ONT comes with a Battery Backup Unit so that emergency calls can be made over the fibre during a power cut.
This is the way the entire OpenReach network will make calls in a few years.

Any mobiles phone can call 999 with or without a SIM inserted.
Most new homes that come with full fibre don't have a copper line at all.

£150 a year just to have another way to call a number that has numerous free alternative methods of reaching it is a waste of that £150.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Welcome to 2018.

The ONT comes with a Battery Backup Unit so that emergency calls can be made over the fibre during a power cut.
This is the way the entire OpenReach network will make calls in a few years.

Any mobiles phone can call 999 with or without a SIM inserted.
Most new homes that come with full fibre don't have a copper line at all.

£150 a year just to have another way to call a number that has numerous free alternative methods of reaching it is a waste of that £150.

Para 1 � This is very true. And eventually the national network will be similarly 'protected'. But doesn't the battery backup only last at best 24 hours? Not all that great if the power outage lasts days if not weeks.

Para 2 - You wrongly assume that there is a nationwide mobile signal from at least one provider everywhere in the UK. If only that were true. Just because you don't have a copper line service is not the same thing as you can't have that service.

Para 3 - So any kind of insurance premium is a waste of money then?

1. How often does the power go off for days or weeks? Homes that are so remote/rural that have frequent/extended power outages tend to have generators.

2. I don't imagine anyone who is posting asking if they are allowed to terminate the landline, has absolutely no mobile signal.
The vast majority of homes can receive at least a working 2G signal at home.

3. who said that? That's a huge leap to make.

So for the ridiculously pedantic out there I'll clarify my point.

If you live in an extremely rural area that regularly has power cuts that lasts days/weeks and you don't have a generator and you have absolutely zero mobile reception at home then you may wish to keep your copper landline (if available).

The other 99.9% of the population could ditch the landline with confidence they could still reach 999 in other ways.

If the power is off for days or weeks you've got bigger problems!
If you can't get a mobile signal, don't ditch the landline, why would you?
Some of them, are yes. Car, house, life, yes, washing machine ....?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

1. How often does the power go off for days or weeks? Homes that are so remote/rural that have frequent/extended power outages tend to have generators.

2. I don't imagine anyone who is posting asking if they are allowed to terminate the landline, has absolutely no mobile signal.
The vast majority of homes can receive at least a working 2G signal at home.

3. who said that? That's a huge leap to make.

So for the ridiculously pedantic out there I'll clarify my point.

If you live in an extremely rural area that regularly has power cuts that lasts days/weeks and you don't have a generator and you have absolutely zero mobile reception at home then you may wish to keep your copper landline (if available).

The other 99.9% of the population could ditch the landline with confidence they could still reach 999 in other ways.

To be polite I would say that events that see an extended power outages, often due to extreem weather conditions, occure about once a decade. But they have been more frequent recently. Flooding comes to mind and that is not the back of beyond either as it affects towns and villiages alike.

I have no access to statistics that confirms that a mobile signal is available to the vast majority of people to make an emergency call wherever they maybe. I doubt there is the blanket coverage you claim exists.

If you don't have a reliable mobile signal where you live, and may not even have mobile, then it makes a lot of sense to retain a copper based land line. To suggest that 99.9% of households could ditch their landline IF they had FTTH is IMHO nonsense. Time is the of the essence in an emergancy and if that makes me pedantic, then so bie it.

I made no such claim. Read the post again.

If you live in an extremely rural area that regularly has power cuts that lasts days/weeks and you don't have a generator and you have absolutely zero mobile reception at home then you may wish to keep your copper landline (if available).

I'm sorry but that is very few properties.

To be polite I would say that events that see an extended power outages, often due to extreem weather conditions, occure about once a decade. But they have been more frequent recently. Flooding comes to mind and that is not the back of beyond either as it affects towns and villiages alike.

Occurs about once a decade for who?
I hope you aren't suggesting that everyone in Britain loses power for days/weeks once a decade.
It probably happens annually for some but for the vast majority a battery backup would be sufficient.

I haven't had a power cut last more than 4 hours in over 35 years.
I think you will find it's a very small percentage of homes who regularly get the severity of power cuts you are describing and have absolutely zero mobile coverage.

They wouldn't install fibre only if a copper line was absolutely necessary.
You can install external aerials that pickup an outdoor mobile signal to be used indoors. Between mobile phones, a battery backup for the ONT, and VOIP options, very few will need a copper landline.

Eventually it's all going to be ripped up/turned off. Many new properties don't come with a copper landline at all.
A BBU is sufficient for them.
I didn't see anyone else on this thread warning of the dire consequences of terminating the landline.

We live in rural Northumberland (i.e. 40 miles from the major city of Newcastle). We are in a tourist area and on the coastal walk so we estimate that about 250,000 visitors come through the village each year. There is no mobile signal, not even 2G. The operators a) tell us there is no demand despite the number of visitors, a lot of whom complain when walking through the village about the lack of reception and b) with the exception of Three all network operators show coverage in at least some parts of the village despite the number of complaints we have made to both network operators and OfCom that there is no coverage.

We are also served by overhead power lines so lose all power for between 6 and 12 hours half-a-dozen times a year when the wind takes lines down. Not enough downtime to justify the expense of backup generators but enough downtime to give concern if there is an emergency. A landline with a corded phone is an absolute necessity (although we do have the luxury of a BT phone box in the village because of the recognition that there is no mobile reception so we can run down the road to make a call in an emergency).

Yes there is certainly a case that can be made for those with adequate infrastructure to get rid on the fixed line but I don't believe that would cover 99.9% of the population and I find it insulting that you think people who are not as lucky as you are dragging their heels about coming into the 21st. century.

Feel insulted all you like. Grow up and stop being so dramatic
FTTP is the way it's going.
Take your grievances up with OFCOM.

There's an amazing invention that will solve all your problems when they remove/turn off your copper phone line.

4x AA batteries.
That's all the current generation of Battery Backup Units need/take.

You will have a fixed landline. It just won't be a copper pair with its own voltage. A it will be a piece of fibre, with a battery backup.
Probably much improved by the time the copper network is switched off.

edit:typo

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 18-Oct-18 22:51:31)

Read my piece. We have taken our problems up with OfCom.

In the meantime, so pleased you've had a good day. I do hope you feel better tomorrow.

Edited by GonePostal (Fri 19-Oct-18 00:38:48)

While the ONT does have a battery backup, your SIP phone or whatever would need to work without power. THere's no way my network would work enough to let me make a phone call.

I think that the new FTTP connectorised cable also has copper that runs along the side of it (which isn't in use in my installation) which allows you to maintain a copper line with only one "cable" coming into the property.

In my situation, we have good mobile coverage - and my wife, I and son are all on different mobile networks and we are well covered. I suspect they are actually on the same tower though, which is nearby and I don't know how well that would continue to work without power.

I do get the discount for no broadband on my copper line, it's £11.99 a month. I don't make any calls on it at all and it just occasionally rings when a robocaller finds its number - but otherwise has no use whatsoever.

I guess I know that I am going to move onto a standard tariff FTTP when I get to the end of my Fluidone (another 2.4 years). I don't want to have a problem with this that £250 in phone charges would have avoided. Thanks to Mr Saffron, and the fact a neighbour has also installed FTTPod now my database entries for my property correctly say Stage 2 FTTP so I'm less worried than I was...

Well it seems Openreach will no longer supply the BBU with the ONT for FTTP only properties (typically new builds) except in certain cases:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/10/openre...

I politely declined having the BBU installed as I wasn't too bothered about having any future FVA service working during a power cut - we get a decent 3G/4G mobile signal indoors from all major operators. Also I wanted a neater install

https://i.postimg.cc/MpjBsQRM/IMG-004.jpg

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Oct-18 10:53:38)

It is usually only the overhead connectorised which carries a copper pair also.

This was previously possible on BFT too.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Para 1 � This is very true. And eventually the national network will be similarly 'protected'. But doesn't the battery backup only last at best 24 hours? Not all that great if the power outage lasts days if not weeks.

24 hours???

In my experience across the FTTP installations I have (five at different locations), both 4 port and 1 port ONTs, the best life we have seen from a BBU is 50 minutes!!

If your Internet (and what would appear in this thread - voice) usage is important, as ours is (business), you need at least 2200VA/3000VA+ UPS on the back-end of the BBU to provide any meaningful reliability (12 hours+?).

So unless the BBUs have changed dramatically since the last install we had (6 months ago), you are not going to get more than a hour, on a good day, with a following wind!

Feel better now that 4x AA batteries is revealed as not a panacea for those in areas without alternatives to a land-based service.

In reply to a post by Mendip:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Para 1 � This is very true. And eventually the national network will be similarly 'protected'. But doesn't the battery backup only last at best 24 hours? Not all that great if the power outage lasts days if not weeks.

24 hours???

In my experience across the FTTP installations I have (five at different locations), both 4 port and 1 port ONTs, the best life we have seen from a BBU is 50 minutes!!

If your Internet (and what would appear in this thread - voice) usage is important, as ours is (business), you need at least 2200VA/3000VA+ UPS on the back-end of the BBU to provide any meaningful reliability (12 hours+?).

So unless the BBUs have changed dramatically since the last install we had (6 months ago), you are not going to get more than a hour, on a good day, with a following wind!

All very true; I stated 'at best' if you threw obscene amounts of money at a battery UPS solution. This thread would not exist if everyone had a 100% reliable electricity supply, an always on mobile signal greater than one bar and an internet service continuously on. In the real world not everyone is so lucky in this respect. Furthermore it is not just remote areas that have this misfortune; it equally applies to those really close to a major town or even in them!

Today, a fixed copper line with a featureless corded telephone can more or less be guaranteed to be operational at all times. Nothing else gives such reliability and while technology moves on in the communications sector, it possibly won't ever reach that standard. Those charmed households that have never experienced an outage, of one kind or another, in their lifetime always seem to assume that such problems only exist by ill prepared people not making themselves self-sufficient in remote areas.

My home and business have each suffered outages lasting 24 hours or more every decade since the great storm with geographical locations in post code GU. Compensation paid out often does not meet the sheer inconvenience of the event. At considerable expense we have adopted a belt and braces approach to minimise future issues but in that plan falls the need for an old fashioned telephone line. Thanks a bunch with plans to remove that facility.

Well, could you not investigate a UPS instead? Or even get an inverter, allowing you to get 240v from your car battery in a dire situation?

To my mind, it's not a case of £150 landline or nothing, it's a choice of "how do I want to stay confident that I can stay in touch?" One of the answers is a landline, one is "to do nothing", and there are many others which should allow you to keep the network awake and any SIP phones also working for a while.

I've not had my BT Landline connected for over 2 years now; it got cancelled when Hyperoptic got installed. But I do accept that I can be a bit more relaxed about communications: I live in a city, so I've got good mobile phone service (OK it's a bit [censored] indoors but take one step out the front door and bam, full signal on every network), a car charger and a choice of two networks between my work and personal phones. Given your issues with mobile signal locally I can totally accept that your circumstances call for a different approach.


The bigger thing though is: The mobile networks aren't required to keep operating during a power cut. During the floods in Lancaster in 2015, the mobile networks only lasted a few minutes, perhaps an hour or two at best. If you've got 45 minutes handy, watch this lecture and look at the transcript / presentations:
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/living... - particularly at the 8-9 minute mark if you want to jump in to "just phones and internet"

Also this PDF is worth looking at too:
http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/media/lancaster-universit...

Edited by deleted (Thu 25-Oct-18 16:24:42)