10Gbps FTTP

Community Fibre Ltd is now offering a symmetrical 10Gbps FTTP business connection for a surprisingly reasonable £500 per month +VAT

I can see this sort of service replacing leased lines as it's far more cost effective. My old 64kbps leased line used to cost more than this. Back in those days it was quite difficult to fill all that bandwidth too

Edited by caffn8me (Sat 10-Nov-18 03:22:47)

A lot depends on the contention ratio they are provisioning at, it may be 10 Gbps dedicated to their core network but how much do you have out to the Internet?

Firms really needing leased lines are also that need to be able to run them at maximum speed for lengthy or mission critical periods of time.

A leased line should also be more secure.

Two things that matter:

1. Where is it available?
2. What's the "fair usage policy"?

For question 1: there is no availability checker, but there is a hint which says "we have already started the network build in Westminster, Wandsworth, Camden and now Hammersmith and Fulham". Later it says: "You can only get Community Fibre if enough people in your location show interest. If your location qualifies, we�ll begin construction."

For question 2: a peak bandwidth of 10G is one thing; a committed bandwidth something else. If they have a customer who uses 10G continuously it will cost them much more than the price they're charging.

They claim there is no limit. I think they are lying.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A leased line should also be more secure.

How so? As far as I am concerned, any data which leaves or enters an end user's site which isn't encrypted is totally insecure anyway.

Edited by caffn8me (Sat 10-Nov-18 18:05:40)

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A leased line should also be more secure.

How so? As far as I am concerned, any data which leaves or enters an end user's site which isn't encrypted is totally insecure anyway.

A public address can receive all kinds of attacks and rubbish. A leased line should only receive data from the other end.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A public address can receive all kinds of attacks and rubbish. A leased line should only receive data from the other end.

You might be confusing "leased line" with "private circuit".

"Leased line" normally implies Internet access. It's a dedicated, uncontended circuit to your ISP, but you are fully on the Internet with one or more public IP addresses.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A leased line should also be more secure.

How so? As far as I am concerned, any data which leaves or enters an end user's site which isn't encrypted is totally insecure anyway.

A public address can receive all kinds of attacks and rubbish. A leased line should only receive data from the other end.

As candlerb states, you're confusing a point-to-point private circuit with a leased line. The former is used to connect the LANs at different sites together directly without going over the internet. The latter connects a site to an ISP. It can also be used to connect the LANs at different sites together using a variety of VPN solutions but all the traffic passes over the internet.

I think you're also a bit unclear what a public address is. Unless you're connected with what's called Carrier Grade NAT (Hyperoptic uses this), your internet connection will have an exposed public IP address too. If the connection supports IPv6 it will have more than one public IP address.

The main difference between your connection and mine is that I have had a connection with a block of static IP addresses ever since 1998.

When you reboot your router, it may very well get allocated a different IP address. My router doesn't.

The two leased lines I had at home in the past did indeed receive all sorts of rubbish and I have been receiving incoming rubbish constantly ever since 1998. That's why I have always used an enterprise grade firewall - which shows over 60,000 connection attempts blocked last week. I'd have to upgrade to something a bit meatier to take advantage of a 10Gbps connection though. My current firewall only has gigabit ethernet.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

They claim there is no limit. I think they are lying.

I don't actually feel they're lying if they don't explicitly impose a cap on the amount of data you can download.

The speed may vary due to the traffic from other users, and the capacity of the core network and peering, but they're neither saying you can only download so many gigabytes a month, nor saying you've got a 1Gbps connection but you can only download at 500Mbps.

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A leased line should also be more secure.

How so? As far as I am concerned, any data which leaves or enters an end user's site which isn't encrypted is totally insecure anyway.

Pretty much that... Add on that most pon fttp variants have basic encryption for traffic then Michael's comment is a bit daft

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

A public address can receive all kinds of attacks and rubbish. A leased line should only receive data from the other end.

This is why you have devices/computers to protect your internel network from that. That said your comment suggested you are mixing the two things up here from point to point networks and internet ones .

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

I don't actually feel they're lying if they don't explicitly impose a cap on the amount of data you can download.

The speed may vary due to the traffic from other users, and the capacity of the core network and peering, but they're neither saying you can only download so many gigabytes a month, nor saying you've got a 1Gbps connection but you can only download at 500Mbps.

There is a contradiction:

1. They say they never throttle your speed
2. They say they never limit your downloads/uploads
3. But they only charge £500 per month for a 10Gbps circuit

A genuine 10Gbps port in a UK data centre will cost you upwards of £2,000 per month, depending on who you buy it from.

Therefore, I think that if you really did use 10Gbps continuously, they would be knocking at your door saying "excuse me sir/madam, but unless you change your behaviour we're going to have to disconnect your service or charge you more per month".

They are probably banking on no home or SME user ever using anything like 10Gbps in practice.

Wikipedia does show a leased line as:

"A leased line is a private bidirectional or symmetric telecommunications circuit between two or more locations provided in exchange for a monthly rent. Sometimes known as a private circuit or data line in the UK."

It also states that:

"Typically, leased lines are used by businesses to connect geographically distant offices."

which is the meaning I have been used to.

I expect that Leased Lines for Internet access have become more common since I had any involvement in leased lines and the Wikipedia page was written! Possibly why you consider the term Leased Line to only refer to lines used for Internet access.

Point to point lines would probably be a better wording as leased lines now means ""uncontended" internet lines", as you know there will always be contention somewhere on the net.

But look at the word "router" is banded about or fibre

That said "A leased line is a private bidirectional or symmetric telecommunications circuit between two or more locations" works for your wording and accessing the net.

Wikipedia isn't always right.

The terminology in the Wikipedia article is somewhat confused. Look at this example;

An Internet leased line is a premium Internet connectivity product, normally delivered over fiber, which provides uncontended, symmetrical speeds with full duplex. It is also known as an ethernet leased line, dedicated line, data circuit or private line.

As this is an internet forum talking about internet access, I thought my use of the term 'leased line' in comparison to other internet access technologies was unambiguous.

Clearly I was wrong

Edited by caffn8me (Sun 11-Nov-18 11:55:30)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

1. Where is it available?

I've just had a letter saying it's arrival is imminent for me - in Wandsworth

Excellent - fingers crossed they deliver. Make sure the contract includes the terms they publicise on the website (i.e. no throttling, no download/upload limits)

I'll say one thing from the off. I'm not going for the 10Gbps service but it will be a business service I'm after. I terminate several VPNs which are used for things like remote backup. The extra bandwidth will certainly be useful for that.

I'll keep my current connection, at least to start with, until I've seen what the new service reliability and performance is like.

I expect the OP was thinking of the meaning you use. I am just used to a meaning that would have been more common 20 years ago.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

I expect the OP was thinking of the meaning you use.

I suspect you may be right